Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

[SWP's back]

I'm paraphrasing but he actually said Nasri was too fat and Yaya is not fit.

Not yesterday he didn't.

 

[blue banks]

Assuming that Hart is a great influence in the dressing room (hmmm), you do realise that Bravo has captained his country for a good few years and is a born leader?

The players leaving, Hart, Yaya and Nasri do indeed have big personalities, they've been wagging the dog for a while and it's no surprise Pep appears to have sidelined them.

You may think we take our identity from those three but I don't. I simply thank them for their contribution and wish them well.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[goalmole]

I'd say the manager certainly knows best on whether this is an unnecessary transfer and the need for a ball playing goal keeper being at the heart of the game plan yes, 100%.

The argument may not work for the Steve McLaren's of this world, but I can't imagine if can be faulted right here.

Especially when the guy is considered to be the best in the world at what he does.
Especially when we have waited at least 3 years to bring him here so that he could do for us what he is beginning to do.
Especially after the underperformance and couldn't be arsed attitude of the squad of last season.
If we just wanted the same players to carry on playing for us we might as well have kept Pellegrini. He was good at not rocking the boat.
A cull has been needed for a long time, I'm glad it's finally happening.

 

[BillyShears]

I've no problem with the tactics, I just don't think Hart would be any worse at them than anyone else given the opportunity, which he has more than earned. This isn't a player on his way out like Yaya, a player we can't rely upon like Vinnie, or even a player who's consistently shown himself up to not be up to the standard, this is one of our top performers, probably our most consistent one, in the most successful period of our history, in his prime, seemingly being fucked out the door on the strength of 45 minutes in a pre season friendly behind Kolarov and Fernando at centre half.

I think deep down inside you know that Pep's decision on Hart wasn't taken after 45 minutes of pre season training - it was taken sometime last season. He's obviously decided that he wants a new number 1 at the club and as importantly, would like Joe to leave the club. That speaks volumes to me about the depth of change which Pep wants to implement. You may well be right that in the short term this, along with the ripping up of the central defence, was unnecessary, but in the long term these things were always going to happen. We can argue the toss about Joe having played a year under Pep, or even Mangala, but ultimately he was always going to decide against these guys. Better he does it now and we start with a clean broom.

For the record, I think Vinny's next. I suspect that even when he's fit he's going to be behind Stones/Otamendi, and by January it'll be clear that if he wants to play regularly he'll have to find another club.

 

[lancs blue]

Ah, the old "the manager always knows best" shtick. Always an infallible argument........

It's not really about that though, is it? The club spent a few years trying to persuade Pep to take the job, it would be pretty brainless not to let him get on and change the squad as he sees fit. Time will be the judge of whether he was right or not.

 

[yeah whatever !!]

Especially when the guy is considered to be the best in the world at what he does.
Especially when we have waited at least 3 years to bring him here so that he could do for us what he is beginning to do.
Especially after the underperformance and couldn't be arsed attitude of the squad of last season.
If we just wanted the same players to carry on playing for us we might as well have kept Pellegrini. He was good at not rocking the boat.
A cull has been needed for a long time, I'm glad it's finally happening.

Been saying it for years, sentiment has to be put on the back burner...

 

[PragueBlue]

Especially when the guy is considered to be the best in the world at what he does.
Especially when we have waited at least 3 years to bring him here so that he could do for us what he is beginning to do.
Especially after the underperformance and couldn't be arsed attitude of the squad of last season.
If we just wanted the same players to carry on playing for us we might as well have kept Pellegrini. He was good at not rocking the boat.
A cull has been needed for a long time, I'm glad it's finally happening.

Spot on.

 

[capiloton]

Hart is a good shot stopper, and that's it. he's a limited GK.
he can't read the game, unable to sweep behind last defender,
not good with distribution, and don't have mentality as a top GK.
(i find it annoying to see he smiles whenever he concede the goals, or when defender make mistakes.)

but i'm not sure with Bravo. didn't see him as a sweeper keeper.
with his age, i see him as a short term solution.
i like Ter-Stegen more. great with both feet, and much more younger.

 

[Marvin]

I think deep down inside you know that Pep's decision on Hart wasn't taken after 45 minutes of pre season training - it was taken sometime last season. He's obviously decided that he wants a new number 1 at the club and as importantly, would like Joe to leave the club. That speaks volumes to me about the depth of change which Pep wants to implement. You may well be right that in the short term this, along with the ripping up of the central defence, was unnecessary, but in the long term these things were always going to happen. We can argue the toss about Joe having played a year under Pep, or even Mangala, but ultimately he was always going to decide against these guys. Better he does it now and we start with a clean broom.

For the record, I think Vinny's next. I suspect that even when he's fit he's going to be behind Stones/Otamendi, and by January it'll be clear that if he wants to play regularly he'll have to find another club.

I criticised Kompany's captaincy in the past - after a title win - when I thought the team was coasting, but last season he started the season really hungry. What aspect of Kompany's game do you think is a problem? I am surprised you say this. I know Hart looks like a high profile casualty, but it doesn't mean that others will necessarily follow.

 

[CrownPointBlue]

Pep has come out and said Hart is training very well and he's the ultimate professional so enough of this bad egg bullshit. Put simply Pep just doesn't think he's good enough to implement his system, which makes me sad but ultimately we have to support the manager.
Some people have very short memories. Joe has been our most consistent performer for the past 7 years.
Good luck Joe in the future and thanks for the wonderful memories.
Let's all get behind our new keeper and pray Pep is as good as we all think he is.

I'm on my knees already mate !!

 

[Phil1]

Ah, the old "the manager always knows best" shtick. Always an infallible argument........

As opposed to somebody stuck in the 90's on the Internet? Yeah, I'd go with Guardiola on this one as well.

 

[Kezinstep]

Sadly, there's more than a few at the ground with this view. On Saturday I heard more than one comment about how underwhelming it all was and there was no need to drop Hart. In fact, that proved Guardiola was somewhat overrated!
The problem with football, a bit like life in general I suppose, is that it polarises opinion far more than it should. If you like Hart, Cabellero is shit. If you liked Manuel, Mancini was toxic. The truth is that change is something many people struggle with. You only have to look at Kolorov to see that. So many fans seem to be so obsessed with how he has done in the past, they seem unwilling (or unable) to judge his performance on Saturday with any objectivity, whatsoever. For what it's worth, I couldn't wait to see the back of him but was pleasantly surprised by his performance. Now I know one swallow does not a summer make, but if he can improve Kolorovs game that much in one preseason, how can anyone not be hugely excited for this great clubs future prospects? Bring it on......

Great post

 

[CrownPointBlue]

Karen7, Is this where I say "I told you so!"???

IIRC, it was you who was giving me shit for saying some of these things LAST SEASON...or am I mistaken and it was a different female member?

Regardless, I don't want him to be supplanted by Bravo. I'd much prefer to see Joe stay as #1 and bring on Gunn as his eventual successor over the next few seasons. I think Hart is one of the best shot stoppers IN THE WORLD, and there are very very few GKs who can be a better player than him in the Prem. Ter Stegen certainly has age on his side, but at 67M, that is pure stupidity.

If we have that kind of money to throw around in the last two weeks of the window, I'd much prefer it be spent on other areas.

100% spot on.......

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

This mistaken use of the phrase 'sweeper-keeper' needs knocking on the head really. Neuer is a one off (Loris is Neuer-lite) and the idea that we are looking for a 'sweeper-keeper' is clearly guff. Guardiola wants a keeper who is comfortable with the ball at his feet, not one who charges around the field tackling forwards.
The most noticeable aspect on Saturday, for me at least, was when the centre halves split in either side of the box, the Sunderland attackers pressed and Cabellero found Sagna in huge amounts of space five yards in his own half, due to the spaces vacated by the three Sunderland players. If they then drop off and we can build up from the back.
All he wants is a keeper who can think quickly and pass a football to a man whose in space. Other than one misplaced pass near the end and a hacked clearance when Sunderland were breaking, I can't remember Willy giving the ball away on Saturday.

 

[CrownPointBlue]

Great post

Why can't Pep do it for Joe then ?

 

[SWP's back]

Especially when the guy is considered to be the best in the world at what he does.
Especially when we have waited at least 3 years to bring him here so that he could do for us what he is beginning to do.
Especially after the underperformance and couldn't be arsed attitude of the squad of last season.
If we just wanted the same players to carry on playing for us we might as well have kept Pellegrini. He was good at not rocking the boat.
A cull has been needed for a long time, I'm glad it's finally happening.

You've absolutely nailed it there.

 

[goalmole]

Why can't Pep do it for Joe then ?

Depends if he thinks Hart has got the tools to adapt. If he thinks otherwise then he isn't going to waste his time.

 

[twoddlehopper]

Why can't Pep do it for Joe then ?

I'm optimisticly hoping he is, there's been no concrete evidence that Joe's off, what if Bravo's in and it's willy out. Joe seems to have definitely been knocked down more than a couple of pegs, maybe to build him back up in Pep's vision.....good lord I'm stretching there!

 

[Charlesfarsbar]

Similar situation to John Terry at Chelsea when AVB came in.

AVB was insisting on a high line, Terry wasn't comfortable, created disharmony in the camp, bye bye AVB. AVB should have shunted Terry off as soon as he came in

Pep has obviously more gravitas than AVB hence there being only one winner in this argument. The team is the most important thing, you cannot sacrifice your football beliefs for the sake of an indivudal no matter the individuals standing

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

Kompany and Yaya won't be far behind him