Pep's tactics

[Krieng_Thai OSC]

This is the set up I can see...2-3-2-3

______Otamendi/Kompany____________Stones

Sagna/Zaba____Fernandinho/Fernando_____Kolorov/Clichy

_____KDB/Gundogan__________Silva/Delph

Sane/Navas________Kun/Nacho______Nolito/Sterling

Fernandinho position is very important. He is the hub. He has 84 successful pass last match as most of the ball need to channel through him in two third of the picth. He is surrounding by our 6 players (see above) and if we lose possession here, They are at our door.
KDB and Silva is the creator in the last third.

Sunderland match is a bit messy as players are still learning. Players run around and swap position a lot.
Next match is better but still not good, too many touch before pass and end up in long passing ball. This system will be most effective in my opinion when play one touch football.

Let see again tomorrow. Player are still learning new system, so do I.

 

[jay_mcfc]

This is the set up I can see...2-3-2-3

______Otamendi/Kompany____________Stones

Sagna/Zaba____Fernandinho/Fernando_____Kolorov/Clichy

_____KDB/Gundogan__________Silva/Delph

Sane/Navas________Kun/Nacho______Nolito/Sterling

Fernandinho position is very important. He is the hub. He has 84 successful pass last match as most of the ball need to channel through him in two third of the picth. He is surrounding by our 6 players (see above) and if we lose possession here, They are at our door.
KDB and Silva is the creator in the last third.

Sunderland match is a bit messy as players are still learning. Players run around and swap position a lot.
Next match is better but still not good, too many touch before pass and end up in long passing ball. This system will be most effective in my opinion when play one touch football.

Let see again tomorrow. Player are still learning new system, so do I.

I think you're misunderstanding the pivot role a little bit. The person playing that position has to be the most intelligent player that can read the game and the right pass at every opportunity. They won't be roaming the field except to slot into defence when a cb moves with the ball. To play Fernandinho there you are losing one of his greatest assets - his engine. To play Fernando there would be suicidal because he's not good enough at playing simple, quick passes to set the attack on the way. Both of them have some attributes to play the position but neither are the long term answer, though I think Fernandinho will be playing there until all of our players are back.

Fernandinho is made for that style of full back that we're playing. He has the engine, the defensive capabilities and he's great at forward play and linking up with the attack. Against Sunderland, Sagna was playing off Sergio for a while, something he's not really very good at. Fernandinho has got that in his locker so when you look at the whole package of what is expected from the full backs and the pivot you can see where Fernandinho will play.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I smiled at the formation on Saturday reminding me about the formation lots of us grew up with 2 - 3 - 5 with the centre half dropping deep into the centre back role and the right and left half's operating wide and in the middle!

 

[JoshuaJDuckworth]

I don't think we need to have the best tackling players in midfield anymore, just intelligent ones. The way Guardiola wants players to press is not the same as Klopp, running as fast as you can at them and trying to steal the ball. If players are in the correct positions when in possesion we should have three close to the ball. If someone then losses the ball those players are able to block the passing lanes and force the opponents to play it long. This is one reason opposition teams found it so hard to build the play against Barca and Bayern, they rarely had time to play a few nice short passes.

With Klopp and other pressing coaches in the league you get a different sort of physicality, far more aggressive and ball orientated. We will be more position orientated. Although players will need to be incredibly fit, strength is less important and intelligence is far more vital. This is how someone like Xabi Alonso can play deep midfielder (or CB). Wonder if we will ever see Silva in deep midfielder role when he is totally comfortable with the system?

The thing I look forward to is when the players are even more comfortable with where they should be on the pitch, we should see opponents getting even less chances to build attacks and even more relient on long balls and hopeful punts.

 

[Neville Kneville]

IMO you need a fast, tough, ball winner putting in bone-crunching tackles in midfield if you are going to be caught out of position. If your midfielder are intelligent enough to understand where they need to be, and work hard enough to do it, they don't need to be tough mothers...

No, but maybe just being a bit better at it or a few yards quicker.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I smiled at the formation on Saturday reminding me about the formation lots of us grew up with 2 - 3 - 5 with the centre half dropping deep into the centre back role and the right and left half's operating wide and in the middle!

It is actually along those lines sometimes but with more accent on pressing & possession.

 

[Krieng_Thai OSC]

I see from last 2 games, when CB moves with the ball Fernandinho run back to stand in CB position immediately (so if CB lose possession they will not one on one with our GK) . The player who will play in new system Centre half (DM) need to have ability to hold CB position, Left/Right Half as well. I cannot see Gundogan, Silva, KDB in there so I still think this position is Fernandinho position in long run. And also we don't need the most creative midfielder in Centre Half (DM) position because we not play 2-3-5 . In 2-3-2-3 inside forward (Silva, KDB) operate attacking in last third. I still want to see what Pep will bring tomorrow. He may surprises us with new formation/ player selection.
I do believe the new system need one touch football in two third of the pitch and wait to see this tomorrow.

 

[Credo]

In the last two seasons Bayern under Pep used 9 or 10 formations (source fourfourtwo). So trying to second guess Pep with present and future squad is great fun but nigh on impossible.

1. 4-3-3

2. 4-2-3-1

3. 4-2-2-2

4. 4-1-4-1

5. 4-1-2-1-2

...or 4-1-3-2

6. 3-5-2

7. 3-4-3

8. 3-4-1-2

9. 3-1-2-1-3

 

[jay_mcfc]

In the last two seasons Bayern under Pep used 9 or 10 formations (source fourfourtwo). So trying to second guess Pep with present and future squad is great fun but nigh on impossible.

1. 4-3-3

2. 4-2-3-1

3. 4-2-2-2

4. 4-1-4-1

5. 4-1-2-1-2

...or 4-1-3-2

6. 3-5-2

7. 3-4-3

8. 3-4-1-2

9. 3-1-2-1-3

This is why I prefer to talk about how he sees each individual player and the roles that they'll play rather than talk about formations. We're far too fluid and flexible to nail down formations, which in itself is brilliant. Can you imagine being an opposing manager trying to prepare a game plan to play against us?!

 

[Saddleworth2]

In the last two seasons Bayern under Pep used 9 or 10 formations (source fourfourtwo). So trying to second guess Pep with present and future squad is great fun but nigh on impossible.

1. 4-3-3

2. 4-2-3-1

3. 4-2-2-2

4. 4-1-4-1

5. 4-1-2-1-2

...or 4-1-3-2

6. 3-5-2

7. 3-4-3

8. 3-4-1-2

9. 3-1-2-1-3

And we will play multiple of those formations in the same game! Brilliant!

 

[Neville Kneville]

This is why I prefer to talk about how he sees each individual player and the roles that they'll play rather than talk about formations. We're far too fluid and flexible to nail down formations, which in itself is brilliant. Can you imagine being an opposing manager trying to prepare a game plan to play against us?!

Yeah it's more to do with where the players are at any given point in time & what their job is, at that moment. The 'average position' map I saw actually showed the fullbacks not far off where you would expect conventional fullbacks to be, but the reality is something completely different.

Already, Pep has done stuff which has rarely, if ever, been seen in the Premier League.

 

[hihosilva]

An Opposition View
As I see things the object of Pep's tactics playing out from the back Is to keep possession & play forward through the midfield & attack. By doing this in theory the opposing team will press our defenders thus creating more space in midfield.
Surly the best option for the opposing team is when we play out from the back they don't press & retreat to a deeper line say near the half way line & make it difficult to play through.
I'm sure someone on here will explain why that wouldn't work.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

I smiled at the formation on Saturday reminding me about the formation lots of us grew up with 2 - 3 - 5 with the centre half dropping deep into the centre back role and the right and left half's operating wide and in the middle!

Showing your age there pal! It's as if Guardiola's been watching old videos of the Mighty Magyars

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

An Opposition View
As I see things the object of Pep's tactics playing out from the back Is to keep possession & play forward through the midfield & attack. By doing this in theory the opposing team will press our defenders thus creating more space in midfield.
Surly the best option for the opposing team is when we play out from the back they don't press & retreat to a deeper line say near the half way line & make it difficult to play through.
I'm sure someone on here will explain why that wouldn't work.

because we pass it round between ourselves relentlessly, moving it from one side to the other, till someone loses their concentration as they're human and supposedly less talented and makes an attempt to intercept or press out, then we just play round in behind and the whole barricade, in theory at least, falls.

It requires Atleti levels of discipline and concentration to keep it up for 90 minutes.

 

[Krieng_Thai OSC]

An Opposition View
As I see things the object of Pep's tactics playing out from the back Is to keep possession & play forward through the midfield & attack. By doing this in theory the opposing team will press our defenders thus creating more space in midfield.
Surly the best option for the opposing team is when we play out from the back they don't press & retreat to a deeper line say near the half way line & make it difficult to play through.
I'm sure someone on here will explain why that wouldn't work.

That's what we want them to do, pressing us at the half way line. This plan 2-3-2-3 works well when the team have superior players in the field. When they press us there will be more space in their box. But if they have good players in midfield and press us well we are at our own risk. They will go one on one with our GK all the time or we have to knock the ball back to GK a lot and only possession without penetration. Surely we will have different game plan throughout this season or in same match but I can see Pep will choose this plan when playing with bottom half table teams.

 

[jay_mcfc]

I see from last 2 games, when CB moves with the ball Fernandinho run back to stand in CB position immediately (so if CB lose possession they will not one on one with our GK) . The player who will play in new system Centre half (DM) need to have ability to hold CB position, Left/Right Half as well. I cannot see Gundogan, Silva, KDB in there so I still think this position is Fernandinho position in long run. And also we don't need the most creative midfielder in Centre Half (DM) position because we not play 2-3-5 . In 2-3-2-3 inside forward (Silva, KDB) operate attacking in last third. I still want to see what Pep will bring tomorrow. He may surprises us with new formation/ player selection.
I do believe the new system need one touch football in two third of the pitch and wait to see this tomorrow.

Again I think you're putting too much defensive emphasis on the pivot role. Slotting in to a centre back position when one of our centre backs carries the ball forward is not the same as being a defensive player or good enough to play centre back. Remember, in this scenario we are the ones in possession and that is 9 tenths of the law to Pep. By filling in at cb, the pivot is merely showing tactical awareness and ensuring that we're not vulnerable to a counter attack. He isn't supposed to be playing as a centre back as such.

We'll see how it unfolds, but I reckon Fernandinho will be the right back and Gundogan the pivot for the majority of our games.

 

[jay_mcfc]

An Opposition View
As I see things the object of Pep's tactics playing out from the back Is to keep possession & play forward through the midfield & attack. By doing this in theory the opposing team will press our defenders thus creating more space in midfield.
Surly the best option for the opposing team is when we play out from the back they don't press & retreat to a deeper line say near the half way line & make it difficult to play through.
I'm sure someone on here will explain why that wouldn't work.

That's effectively parking the bus. Good luck trying to do that for 90 minutes against a Pep side.

Edit: I think what Premier League managers will try to do first is push their wide midfielders right up to our full backs. It would leave their own full backs one on one against our players, which is exactly what we want, but it would be one way of trying to disrupt our formation and being dangerous on the counter attack.

 

[Benarbia’s Backheel]

How about this when Gundogan's back...

Without possession..

--------------------------Bravo------------------------------
Dinho----------Stones------------Otamendi-------Delph

------------------------Gundogan---------------------------
-------------KDB--------------------------Silva-------------
Sane---------------------------------------------Sterling/Nolito
-------------------------Aguero-----------------------------

Which means that with possession we'll be...

--------------------------Bravo------------------------------
----------Stones---------------------Otamendi------------
-----------------------Gundogan----------------------------
----------------Dinho-------------Delph-------------------
Sane----------KDB---------------Silva-------------Sterling/Nolito
------------------------Aguero-----------------------------

Just a thought for if we really wanted to control games, and Delph/Dinho would be much more comfortable in the CM role than Clichy/Sagna, and both are good enough at defending to handle the full back defensive roles.

 

[ancoats]

Showing your age there pal! It's as if Guardiola's been watching old videos of the Mighty Magyars

and the sweeper gone from the game for 30 years and pep's setup reminds me of the sweeper taking to ball of the keeper

 

[hihosilva]

That's effectively parking the bus. Good luck trying to do that for 90 minutes against a Pep side.

Edit: I think what Premier League managers will try to do first is push their wide midfielders right up to our full backs. It would leave their own full backs one on one against our players, which is exactly what we want, but it would be one way of trying to disrupt our formation and being dangerous on the counter attack.

It will be interesting as the season progresses to see how teams try to cope.