Pep's tactics

[FCBarca]

Cruyff, people. Pep is a disciple of Cruyff who learned from Rinus MIchels.

Americans comparing Pep's tactics to American football, hard to fathom but I suppose City has attracted followers from across the pond - the game & many of the philosophies that make it great have nothing to do with the other game

 

[franksinatra]

Cruyff, people. Pep is a disciple of Cruyff who learned from Rinus MIchels.

Americans comparing Pep's tactics to American football, hard to fathom but I suppose City has attracted followers from across the pond - the game & many of the philosophies that make it great have nothing to do with the other game

Most of the things we are watching come from what he learned in his time at Mexico from La Volpe and brought to Barca.

I have no evidence either way if he picked up things from NFL but it would not surprise me if he picked up things from other coaches.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Cruyff, people. Pep is a disciple of Cruyff who learned from Rinus MIchels.

Americans comparing Pep's tactics to American football, hard to fathom but I suppose City has attracted followers from across the pond - the game & many of the philosophies that make it great have nothing to do with the other game

What part of America is Middleton in?

There are hard facts to suggest that Pep has studied and been influenced by other team sports.

And since we're being so condescending, who are FC Boat exactly?

 

[Shaelumstash]

It didn't mean it like that. Less gifted would be your Clichy/Sagna. Less creative would be Fernandinho. Not saying Fernandinho isn't creative. Just less creative than Silva/De Bruyne.

Someone like Alonso would come under more disaplined. I think Gundogan will be like a hybrid of Busquests and Alonso. Great passing range yet dynamic.

Alonso in some of the big games against powerful sides Alonso was a liability. Madrid a couple of times, Juve. Even us to an extent.

To stick with NFL I think Pep sees Gundogan as more of a Cam Newton than a older Brett Farve.

From what I've seen, I think Pep sees the Prem as a different animal to Spain or Germany. Using a combination of both Bayern and Barca to create a Prem hardy side.

At Barcelona, he used over lapping full backs and central creativity/play dictation. He often defended with just three. This would be murdered in the Prem.
At Bayern, he used inverted full backs. Two solid centre mids a floating Muller, a traditional striker and quick wingers offering wingers.

At City, it looks like he'll utilise the inverted full backs with one holding/QB type player centrally to offer stability. A creative two in front. Wide pace and directness and a striker.

If you lined up his previous two sides in our formation as it looks. . (No Messi as he's non comparable).

............GK..........
...Pique..Boateng...
Lahm.............Alaba
..........Vidal.........
...Xavi.....Inesta.....
Costa..............Robben
.....Lewondowski


...............GK........
.........Stones..VK.........
Fernandinho........Clichy
...........Gundogan.......
.......Silva.....De Bruyne
Sterling..................Sane
....... Sergio

Great post, and that starting line up is what I think we'll end up with. I think we'll see subtle changes - Kolarov did a lot more overlapping than tucking inside last night. Whether that's because he didn't have the discipline to tuck in, or if he was instructed to get forward, it was a another string to our bow at times.

A lot of people (myself included) were concerned at the lack of signings in central midfield this season. But from the first two games it seems our concerns were possibly unfounded. We've got Fernandinho, Gundogan, Fernando and Aleix Garcia as cover for the pivot role. We've got 6 full backs who are capable of tucking inside to add extra cover when needed.

And for the two attacking number 8 positions we've got Silva, De Bruyne, Fernandinho, Gundogan, Zinchenko, Nolito looks like he could do a job there, and of course Yaya and Nasri capable of playing there if they stay.

The difference in fitness and motivation compared with last season looks stark. A few changes in personnel has had an impact on that. But the biggest change for me already is that we have a clear game plan and pattern to our play. The shape we play lends itself to creating triangles all over the pitch giving numerous options to man on the ball at all times.

The movement and passing last night was just incredible to watch. But added to that the way Fernandinho drops in to the back line, and full backs tucking in to midfield to make us less vulnerable to the counter is such a brilliant tactical innovation.

I've never seen that done before by an English team, I think it could end up being Guardiola's tactical legacy in the PL following on from doing something similar in Germany and the "false 9" and "6 second press" in Spain.

 

[OB1]

Great post, and that starting line up is what I think we'll end up with. I think we'll see subtle changes - Kolarov did a lot more overlapping than tucking inside last night. Whether that's because he didn't have the discipline to tuck in, or if he was instructed to get forward, it was a another string to our bow at times.

A lot of people (myself included) were concerned at the lack of signings in central midfield this season. But from the first two games it seems our concerns were possibly unfounded. We've got Fernandinho, Gundogan, Fernando and Aleix Garcia as cover for the pivot role. We've got 6 full backs who are capable of tucking inside to add extra cover when needed.

And for the two attacking number 8 positions we've got Silva, De Bruyne, Fernandinho, Gundogan, Zinchenko, Nolito looks like he could do a job there, and of course Yaya and Nasri capable of playing there if they stay.

The difference in fitness and motivation compared with last season looks stark. A few changes in personnel has had an impact on that. But the biggest change for me already is that we have a clear game plan and pattern to our play. The shape we play lends itself to creating triangles all over the pitch giving numerous options to man on the ball at all times.

The movement and passing last night was just incredible to watch. But added to that the way Fernandinho drops in to the back line, and full backs tucking in to midfield to make us less vulnerable to the counter is such a brilliant tactical innovation.

I've never seen that done before by an English team, I think it could end up being Guardiola's tactical legacy in the PL following on from doing something similar in Germany and the "false 9" and "6 second press" in Spain.

It is fascinating to behold what he is doing. His tactics have evolved, partly in response to the players at his disposal and the nature of the competition but also, presumably, because he of his constant search for knowledge and ideas.

His tactics and team selections for City in the two competitive games so far appear to me partly driven by the resources at his disposal. We are at very early stages but the faults in our established full backs of either lack of pace or uninspiring crossing ability are compensated for somewhat by tucking them in and asking the wingers to stay wide. Of course, the positions taken up are a factor of his zonal approach to the game and not wanting his players in the same vertical space (which helps open up the passing angles) As you note, Kolarov at full back has more propensity to go wide but Nolito moves inside, comfortably, when he does that.

The other thing the formation currently does is allow both Silva and KDB to play together as "inside forwards" rather than battling for the #10 spot. I'd describe the formation, functionally, as 4-1-4-1; although that shape is positionally the overriding shape from last night's game despite the morphing into 2-3-5 and 3-2-5. What is very clear is that there is already a lot of discpline in the team in terms of keeping a structure albeit with great fluidity within the zones.

Real kudos at this stage to all the full backs for making it work as well as it has and also to Dinho who is at the heart of the things.

A word too on John Stones who, unsurprisingly, looks tailor made for the virtual back 2 / back 3.

If the players continue to apply themselves in training and in the matches, we may well witness something very special; let's see how it holds up at Stoke.

 

[Neville Kneville]

It is fascinating to behold what he is doing. His tactics have evolved, partly in response to the players at his disposal and the nature of the competition but also, presumably, because he of his constant search for knowledge and ideas.

His tactics and team selections for City in the two competitive games so far appear to me partly driven by the resources at his disposal. We are at very early stages but the faults in our established full backs of either lack of pace or uninspiring crossing ability are compensated for somewhat by tucking them in and asking the wingers to stay wide. Of course, the positions taken up are a factor of his zonal approach to the game and not wanting his players in the same vertical space (which helps open up the passing angles) As you note, Kolarov at full back has more propensity to go wide but Nolito moves inside, comfortably, when he does that.

The other thing the formation currently does is allow both Silva and KDB to play together as "inside forwards" rather than battling for the #10 spot. I'd describe the formation, functionally, as 4-1-4-1; although that shape is positionally the overriding shape from last night's game despite the morphing into 2-3-5 and 3-2-5. What is very clear is that there is already a lot of discpline in the team in terms of keeping a structure albeit with great fluidity within the zones.

Real kudos at this stage to all the full backs for making it work as well as it has and also to Dinho who is at the heart of the things.

A word too on John Stones who, unsurprisingly, looks tailor made for the virtual back 2 / back 3.

If the players continue to apply themselves in training and in the matches, we may well witness something very special; let's see how it holds up at Stoke.

As I mentioned elsewhere, you can guage the neanderthal thinking of typical English coaches by Hoddle's comments on how other managers will be 'licking their lips' at the prospect of Pep's fullbacks tucking inside.

So they spend all week working on exploting it, turn up drilled to fuck & he has the fullbacks both overlapping instead.

I still expect we will get turned over from time to time whilst Pep is putting this together, but if it happens, he will just get us straight back on the horse & off we go again.

Sooner or later, we will be doing to Premier League teams, what we did last night. Regularly. It's just a matter of how long it takes, be it a month, 6 months, a year. It's coming. Maybe it's already here.

I'm still cautious about that, but I'm 100% sure it's going to happen & even moreso than last night.

 

[OB1]

As I mentioned elsewhere, you can guage the neanderthal thinking of typical English coaches by Hoddle's comments on how other managers will be 'licking their lips' at the prospect of Pep's fullbacks tucking inside.

So they spend all week working on exploting it, turn up drilled to fuck & he has the fullbacks both overlapping instead.

I still expect we will get turned over from time to time whilst Pep is putting this together, but if it happens, he will just get us straight back on the horse & off we go again.

Sooner or later, we will be doing to Premier League teams, what we did last night. Regularly. It's just a matter of how long it takes, be it a month, 6 months, a year. It's coming. Maybe it's already here.

I'm still cautious about that, but I'm 100% sure it's going to happen & even moreso than last night.

Yup, Pep won't stand still and will work towards having the team able to change their approach multiple times in a game if need be. That will take time to achieve but progress to date has been all that I could hope for and makes me excited to see the next game / step in team's evolution. There will be setbacks but it's the direction of travel that counts and so far so good.

 

[Shaelumstash]

It is fascinating to behold what he is doing. His tactics have evolved, partly in response to the players at his disposal and the nature of the competition but also, presumably, because he of his constant search for knowledge and ideas.

His tactics and team selections for City in the two competitive games so far appear to me partly driven by the resources at his disposal. We are at very early stages but the faults in our established full backs of either lack of pace or uninspiring crossing ability are compensated for somewhat by tucking them in and asking the wingers to stay wide. Of course, the positions taken up are a factor of his zonal approach to the game and not wanting his players in the same vertical space (which helps open up the passing angles) As you note, Kolarov at full back has more propensity to go wide but Nolito moves inside, comfortably, when he does that.

The other thing the formation currently does is allow both Silva and KDB to play together as "inside forwards" rather than battling for the #10 spot. I'd describe the formation, functionally, as 4-1-4-1; although that shape is positionally the overriding shape from last night's game despite the morphing into 2-3-5 and 3-2-5. What is very clear is that there is already a lot of discpline in the team in terms of keeping a structure albeit with great fluidity within the zones.

Real kudos at this stage to all the full backs for making it work as well as it has and also to Dinho who is at the heart of the things.

A word too on John Stones who, unsurprisingly, looks tailor made for the virtual back 2 / back 3.

If the players continue to apply themselves in training and in the matches, we may well witness something very special; let's see how it holds up at Stoke.

Yeh to be honest mate, I would write the formation down as 433. For me the classic 443 shape has one deep midfielder and 2 number 8s in front, the shape of the classic Barca team.

Reading Pep Confidential, apparently in Germany this formation is known as 4141. But that's when he says the line about "telephone numbers". How you refer to the shape isn't really important, it's the benefits it gives you that is important.

By having one midfielder who sits deeper it automatically creates more passing lines. The "pivote" / number 6 : holding midfielder, whatever you want to call it, creates a triangle shape with the centre backs, the full backs and the two number 8s. The position is key to most of Pep's teams as it avoids a lot of useless square balls that often get played in a flat 2 man midfield.

I'm sure he's got a lot more tricks up his sleeve, I can't wait to see them, it's going to be a fascinating season!

 

[Thaksinssoldier]

More a Joe paterno if you ask me!!

I hope not. I had pretty close ties to Penn State back in the day and the 2 are very, very different. Paterno tactically was more like Ferguson tbh, bring in a solid no.2 every few years with differing ideas. Guardiola is definitely more a man who will immerse himself in a system, find what works and then add something unique to make it essentially his own.

 

[raininspain]

You're all wrong! Ask Pep who he learned the most from and I guarantee 100% that he would tell you that it was from Juanma Lillo!

Who, you might ask?

Juanma Lillo was UD Salamanca's coach and got the team back to back promotions from Segunda B (like League 1) to Segunda (the Championship) and then up to Primera División (what you all call ´la liga').

Check it out on Wikipedia if you don't believe me!