PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

TedofChume said:
I've got to disagree with a few of the points made by this guy. The CAS report undermines pretty much every point he tries to make.

1) CAS stated in their report that the only information UEFA provided as evidence were the emails published by der Spiegel, nothing else. They didn't present any other evidence, despite getting a team of forensic accountants to look through City's books, having access to all City's bank accounts, contracts etc. That is pretty damming.

2) In the CAS report, CAS gave 8 different reasons for arriving at their decision to clear City of all charges.

3) The CAS report states categorically that UEFA did not have a case against City.

4) The report also states City were prevented by UEFA from providing the original emails at the original hearing, and that this was an error by UEFA. Had UEFA allowed City to show the original emails, CAS determined that UEFA should have cleared City at the original hearing. That's virtually saying the original hearing outcome was fixed.

5) The unredacted emails provided by City showed one of the six published by der Spiegel were two others spliced together - ie the emails der Spiegel printed were deliberately fabricated to mislead. The redactions also allowed der Spiegel to suggest they meant something else, and crucially the emails actually referred to a deal being discussed before FFP or PSR that never went ahead.

When people write stuff like this post, they completely overlook very clear facts that indicate the conclusions they are trying to draw are nonsense.

I'll go on, der Spiegel did publish extra information about Manicini's and Toure's payments. I've read those emails. To me Manicini's agent is discussing a perfectly legal way to avoid paying income tax twice on Mancini's salary, otherwise he'd be paying about 97% and it wouldn't be worth taking the job. This happened because despite duel taxation arrangements to avoid this, Mancini crossed the default threshold in both countries for tax to be applied automatically. The additional AD contract ensured Mancini was never in the UK for over 56 days and therefore only had to pay income tax in Italy. Mancini can't be the first to be in this position. The emails show Mancini's agent duscussing this openly withb the Italian tax authorities, and chasing important documents after he was sacked. The Toure contract is all about a third-party who represents Toure helping City exploit image rights of him and other players. I can't see anything wrong in this, the emails indicate a perfectly normal business arrangement. None of these extra emails suggest any wrongdoing by City. It is purely the interpretation by der Spiegel (because the CAS report suggested they'd made it all up) they used to try to save face. At the time der Spiegel were in the mire over publishing several made up articles with editors and journalists sacked as a result. The CAS reported showed their corrupt business practices spread wider.

Rant over!
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Brilliant rant mate. Nail on head without the drama.

 
StillBluessinceHydeRoad said:
Our red finance expert makes such a beguilingly attractive case that we might all wonder why CAS didn’t reach his conclusions back …. And why the PL’s commission hasn’t reached the same conclusions in its apparently never ending deliberations. I cannot get away from a recurrent explanation which is, admittedly, based on no experience, expertise or knowledge. It is predicated on a number of ifs.

Suppose the PL has lost comprehensively. The learned panel has confirmed CAS’s judgement that no evidence has been presented to support any of the allegations and has exonerated our club completely. City simply will not allow an award which states, as the PL wishes, that the PL were unable to prove their case.

I imagine City are angry at the years of the club and its owners being dragged through the mud, rules which are unlawful introduced, rules designed to favour other clubs at our expense, allegations which question the honesty of some of the most high profile business men in the world. The club wants some acknowledgement of all this, some guarantee that all this will never happen again and some financial award to make good the damage done to the reputation of the club and its owners.

This would be a lot for the PL to swallow but I don’t think there will be much sympathy at the club where patience must be exhausted. I believe City took a unllateral decision to release the APT award …. That is my final if!

Fantasy?
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At the very least, it's no more fantastical than any of the 'What Will Happen After City Are Found Guilty' articles.
Certainly, if City are innocent (and I like to believe we are) your supposotion that the Board's patience must be exhausted simply has to hold water.
 
Norman kneejerk said:
Once the judgement is out we need to look at a PR campaign highlighting these key points rather than just keeping our counsel.
It won't stop people but we really need to address the negative image which is our there with some easily I understood points like the splicing of the emails etc.
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Keep your friends close...

Keep your enemies closer...

City will pick their fights carefully if at all.
 
TedofChume said:
I've got to disagree with a few of the points made by this guy. The CAS report undermines pretty much every point he tries to make.

1) CAS stated in their report that the only information UEFA provided as evidence were the emails published by der Spiegel, nothing else. They didn't present any other evidence, despite getting a team of forensic accountants to look through City's books, having access to all City's bank accounts, contracts etc. That is pretty damming.

2) In the CAS report, CAS gave 8 different reasons for arriving at their decision to clear City of all charges.

3) The CAS report states categorically that UEFA did not have a case against City.

4) The report also states City were prevented by UEFA from providing the original emails at the original hearing, and that this was an error by UEFA. Had UEFA allowed City to show the original emails, CAS determined that UEFA should have cleared City at the original hearing. That's virtually saying the original hearing outcome was fixed.

5) The unredacted emails provided by City showed one of the six published by der Spiegel were two others spliced together - ie the emails der Spiegel printed were deliberately fabricated to mislead. The redactions also allowed der Spiegel to suggest they meant something else, and crucially the emails actually referred to a deal being discussed before FFP or PSR that never went ahead.

When people write stuff like this post, they completely overlook very clear facts that indicate the conclusions they are trying to draw are nonsense.

I'll go on, der Spiegel did publish extra information about Manicini's and Toure's payments. I've read those emails. To me Manicini's agent is discussing a perfectly legal way to avoid paying income tax twice on Mancini's salary, otherwise he'd be paying about 97% and it wouldn't be worth taking the job. This happened because despite duel taxation arrangements to avoid this, Mancini crossed the default threshold in both countries for tax to be applied automatically. The additional AD contract ensured Mancini was never in the UK for over 56 days and therefore only had to pay income tax in Italy. Mancini can't be the first to be in this position. The emails show Mancini's agent duscussing this openly withb the Italian tax authorities, and chasing important documents after he was sacked. The Toure contract is all about a third-party who represents Toure helping City exploit image rights of him and other players. I can't see anything wrong in this, the emails indicate a perfectly normal business arrangement. None of these extra emails suggest any wrongdoing by City. It is purely the interpretation by der Spiegel (because the CAS report suggested they'd made it all up) they used to try to save face. At the time der Spiegel were in the mire over publishing several made up articles with editors and journalists sacked as a result. The CAS reported showed their corrupt business practices spread wider.

Rant over!
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You sir should post way more often. Despite that post being long, it was succinct, to the point, not one word wasted. These are the type/style of posts I want to read. Bravo.
 
Cityfan1977 said:
@Prestwich_Blue we did brake the spending rules in 2014 hence the fewer squat and transfer ban correct ?
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Well yes but it's a bit more complicated than that.

There was a clause in the FFP rules at the time that would have seen us avoid any punishment if we met certain conditions over the first two years being assessed. However, after the first year, when we were on course to meet those conditions, UEFA moved the goalposts which meant we had no chance to comply.
 
chaddblue said:
I saw he was a United fan and stopped there
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Total bollocks. The funniest line was that “Etihad didn’t pay the sponsorships, Abu Dhabi government entities did.” Does he not realise that Etihad is state owned and is an Abu Dhabi government entity. He is another one who also does not know whose City’s owners are and has not bothered to read the Judges’ statement from the CAS case.
 
TedofChume said:
I've got to disagree with a few of the points made by this guy. The CAS report undermines pretty much every point he tries to make.

1) CAS stated in their report that the only information UEFA provided as evidence were the emails published by der Spiegel, nothing else. They didn't present any other evidence, despite getting a team of forensic accountants to look through City's books, having access to all City's bank accounts, contracts etc. That is pretty damming.

2) In the CAS report, CAS gave 8 different reasons for arriving at their decision to clear City of all charges.

3) The CAS report states categorically that UEFA did not have a case against City.

4) The report also states City were prevented by UEFA from providing the original emails at the original hearing, and that this was an error by UEFA. Had UEFA allowed City to show the original emails, CAS determined that UEFA should have cleared City at the original hearing. That's virtually saying the original hearing outcome was fixed.

5) The unredacted emails provided by City showed one of the six published by der Spiegel were two others spliced together - ie the emails der Spiegel printed were deliberately fabricated to mislead. The redactions also allowed der Spiegel to suggest they meant something else, and crucially the emails actually referred to a deal being discussed before FFP or PSR that never went ahead.

When people write stuff like this post, they completely overlook very clear facts that indicate the conclusions they are trying to draw are nonsense.

I'll go on, der Spiegel did publish extra information about Manicini's and Toure's payments. I've read those emails. To me Manicini's agent is discussing a perfectly legal way to avoid paying income tax twice on Mancini's salary, otherwise he'd be paying about 97% and it wouldn't be worth taking the job. This happened because despite duel taxation arrangements to avoid this, Mancini crossed the default threshold in both countries for tax to be applied automatically. The additional AD contract ensured Mancini was never in the UK for over 56 days and therefore only had to pay income tax in Italy. Mancini can't be the first to be in this position. The emails show Mancini's agent duscussing this openly withb the Italian tax authorities, and chasing important documents after he was sacked. The Toure contract is all about a third-party who represents Toure helping City exploit image rights of him and other players. I can't see anything wrong in this, the emails indicate a perfectly normal business arrangement. None of these extra emails suggest any wrongdoing by City. It is purely the interpretation by der Spiegel (because the CAS report suggested they'd made it all up) they used to try to save face. At the time der Spiegel were in the mire over publishing several made up articles with editors and journalists sacked as a result. The CAS reported showed their corrupt business practices spread wider.

Rant over!
Click to expand...
Great post and mirrors much of my thoughts.

I would add that I’d advise every City fan not to waste their spare time bothering on that wanker Adam Joseph. He’s been spouting biased unsubstantiated bollocks about this going right back to when the charges were first announced. In fact, there was a tweet of his posted way back near the beginning of this very thread. No surprise to know that he’s a United fan who also shags kangaroos for a living. Fuck him and fuck all those who sail in him.
 
M18CTID said:
Great post and mirrors much of my thoughts.

I would add that I’d advise every City fan not to waste their spare time bothering on that wanker Adam Joseph. He’s been spouting biased unsubstantiated bollocks about this going right back to when the charges were first announced. In fact, there was a tweet of his posted way back near the beginning of this very thread. No surprise to know that he’s a United fan who also shags kangaroos for a living. Fuck him and fuck all those who sail in him.
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if he only came out of his mother's house we could give him a Kippax car park Welcome
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Total bollocks. The funniest line was that “Etihad didn’t pay the sponsorships, Abu Dhabi government entities did.” Does he not realise that Etihad is state owned and is an Abu Dhabi government entity. He is another one who also does not know whose City’s owners are and has not bothered to read the Judges’ statement from the CAS case.
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I’d love to know on what planet how these fuckwits think it’s illegal for a state-owned business to receive money from, errrrr, the state.
 
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