2020 US Elections

Status
Not open for further replies.
Prestwich_Blue said:
Thinking about things earlier, seeing one group of pro-Trump supporters demanding counting be stopped in Michigan and another demanding it carry on in Arizona. I simply couldn't imagine either of the Bush's, Reagan or even the notoriously paranoid Nixon encouraging their supporters to carry on like this. It's little short of outright incitement in my opinion.

It also perfectly illustrates what I said yesterday about being able to subvert or override the supposed checks and balances that the Constitution is supposed to provide.

I do wonder how many of the Republican voters are Trump fans rather than true Republicans. If the GOP had someone similar to Biden (somewhat bland career politician) running against Biden it'd be interesting to see what the voting split in the various demographics would look like as I reckon the appeal of Trump may be a significant issue.

I was also reading something about how the various demographics prefer information. College-educated people tend to prefer objective arguments, with nuanced views, which is what you'd expect with them having been through college. Whereas the blue-collar, less-educated demographic like to here more extreme, zero-sum conflict arguments. These people have always existed but I suspect been in the margins.

Trump emboldened and unleashed this group and made them mainstream, in the same way that someone like Farage did for the little-Englander, or Corbyn did for the anti-semites in the Labour Party. The question is will the GOP carry on with Trumpism without Trump or will it repudiate it and go back to being a standard political party?
Click to expand...

I mostly agree with your first paragraph, but remember Bush's cronies, lead by Roger Stone managed to stop the recount in Florida in 2000 by storming the election office.

And by stopping the recount on that day they stole the election. It got tied up in the courts all the way up to the supreme court which decided that the delay in the recount caused by Stone and co. took it outside the deadline.

So this isn't exactly new for the Republicans.

As for you're Trump fans or Republicans question, they are definitely Trump fans. When polled in the Republican Senate primaries, 80% of voters said that a prospective senator being loyal to Trump was the most important factor to them.

Rearding the future, I'm afraid Trump isn't going anywhere soon. He will run for 2024, not least because being a rival presidential candidate makes it very difficult for a Biden regime to prosecute him for his various crimes, he will cry about political persecution etc.
 
Associated Press put Biden on 264, so Nevada takes him to the magic number.

Obviously the teenage President will be throwing legal toys out the pram so there will be delays. But surely he's lost.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Thinking about things earlier, seeing one group of pro-Trump supporters demanding counting be stopped in Michigan and another demanding it carry on in Arizona. I simply couldn't imagine either of the Bush's, Reagan or even the notoriously paranoid Nixon encouraging their supporters to carry on like this. It's little short of outright incitement in my opinion.

It also perfectly illustrates what I said yesterday about being able to subvert or override the supposed checks and balances that the Constitution is supposed to provide.

I do wonder how many of the Republican voters are Trump fans rather than true Republicans. If the GOP had someone similar to Biden (somewhat bland career politician) running against Biden it'd be interesting to see what the voting split in the various demographics would look like as I reckon the appeal of Trump may be a significant issue.

I was also reading something about how the various demographics prefer information. College-educated people tend to prefer objective arguments, with nuanced views, which is what you'd expect with them having been through college. Whereas the blue-collar, less-educated demographic like to here more extreme, zero-sum conflict arguments. These people have always existed but I suspect been in the margins.

Trump emboldened and unleashed this group and made them mainstream, in the same way that someone like Farage did for the little-Englander, or Corbyn did for the anti-semites in the Labour Party. The question is will the GOP carry on with Trumpism without Trump or will it repudiate it and go back to being a standard political party?
Click to expand...
Agree with most of that and there have been plenty of examples through history of autocratic leaders using the grievances of those in society with the least intelligence looking for someone to blame for their plight. It's the same playbook as Mao's Cultural Revolution, Stalin's great purge, Hitler's rise to power and many others where propaganda is used to gain the support of those that feel downtrodden.

Each time a scapegoat is used to rally support from the masses, and the scapegoat is usually what the leader perceives as his biggest threat such as the intelligentsia in Russia and China for Stalin and Mao, or minority groups perceived to be either doing well or limiting their own opportunities such as Jews in Germany, immigrants in general etc. Trump's scapegoats have been a combination of the above such as Mexicans, Muslims, Chinese and the Deep State which has pandered to his base's xenophobia and openness to conspiracy theories.

Like you say there are parallels with Farage here but also in places like Poland, Hungary, Brazil etc where authoritarian figures have managed to become mainstream through tapping into the grievances of those at the bottom of society.

It's a potential problem everywhere but the likelihood of success for the autocrat is in places where there are the most divisions in society, where the gulf between the haves and have nots is the widest and where grievances are not taken seriously and are allowed to fester.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Biden can't be any worse than Trump, but Trump can be much worse than he is now.

At least Biden will try to be a stabilising influence on World politics. Trump will just try and f*ck sh*t up to benefit himself.
Click to expand...
I get that.......i just wanted a bit more specifics in terms of what exactly Biden will bring to the table,and especially how his appointment will benefit the UK.
I know nothing about Biden,so what attributes and characteristics have deemed this man to be the best possible candidate for the Presidency?
 
FantasyIreland said:
And if that's Biden,why is that good for America? and more importantly,us?
Click to expand...
The climate for one. Trump doesn't understand (or is purposely lying about) the science and statistics.
The pandemic. Trump doesn't understand (or is purposely lying about) the science and statistics.

I think the welfare of those living now and those that live in the future are pretty important reasons.

Another argument is the issue of our trade deals with the US due to Brexit. I would think Biden is more likely to respect the GFA than Trump.
 
FantasyIreland said:
I get that.......i just wanted a bit more specifics in terms of what exactly Biden will bring to the table,and especially how his appointment will benefit the UK.
I know nothing about Biden,so what attributes and characteristics have deemed this man to be the best possible candidate for the Presidency?
Click to expand...
I dont think any bring anything directly.

People bang on about a trade deal but the reality is that the US have very low regulation and environmental standards. So why would we allow them in to compete with our firms. There is a reason why the EU have no trade deal and the same applies to us - governments own figures show there is little to gain from increased trade with the US.

The bigger picture is regarding basic decency and evidence based politics. Trump and Brexit come from the same space where you say any old bollocks to back up your bat shit crazy agenda. The result is a fu*king mess as seen over the last 4 years, getting rid of Trump is a step in the right direction of rejecting that brand of pollitics.
 
Can someone who know about these things tell me how the Democrats can win the presidency (assuming they do), win the popular vote (assuming they do) and still lose the Senate? I get how two years into the presidency, people might change their minds, but presumably everyone voting for Biden now is also voting for Democrats in the senate? Is it just another part of a fucked up system, or is there something I'm not getting?
 
pirate said:
true
but rules change.
there was one president who ran 4 consecutive terms and you cant do that now
Click to expand...
I know, but I think the limit just says 2 terms. I don't think it specifies whether they are consecutive or not, so I don't think there's anything to stop a single term president going for it again in the future.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Can someone who know about these things tell me how the Democrats can win the presidency (assuming they do), win the popular vote (assuming they do) and still lose the Senate? I get how two years into the presidency, people might change their minds, but presumably everyone voting for Biden now is also voting for Democrats in the senate? Is it just another part of a fucked up system, or is there something I'm not getting?
Click to expand...
Senate race is separate from the Presidential race.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Can someone who know about these things tell me how the Democrats can win the presidency (assuming they do), win the popular vote (assuming they do) and still lose the Senate? I get how two years into the presidency, people might change their minds, but presumably everyone voting for Biden now is also voting for Democrats in the senate? Is it just another part of a fucked up system, or is there something I'm not getting?
Click to expand...
You vote for Senators as well as for a President. Each State has two senators to represent them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top