47 | Phil Foden - 2023/24

[bennyboy]

The great John Barnes thinks we'll never see the best of Foden until England play like City ffs.Perhaps Phil should do a Ben White then ?

The great John Barnes who did fuck all at international level bar a wonder goal against Brazil.

 

[freshie]

 

[supercity88]

and kind of on this topic, I think there's some credibility to getting a manager who can essentially adopt the tactics that successful teams in that country are using. it's very logical if you think about it. If you look at the Spain team that won the World Cup, their play wasn't that far removed from Barcelona and obviously they had Barcelona players in there. The Germany team that won the World Cup in Brazil pretty much played a typical Bundesliga style of football. Italy won the last Euros and they looked pretty much the same as a top Serie A team does in how they play.

Surely te logical thing is that you get players from teams like City and Arsenal and get them to approach the game in a similar way to what they do every week. obviously it's not so simple because its Southgate, not Pep or Lego Head, but it's just a tournament for a few weeks, I'm sure you can at least imitate a similar approach to football. it's not rocket science. instead we get players used to playing a certain way every week, having massive success doing it and bring them in to play a very rigid kind of football but they're not used to. what do you expect the outcome to be?

I believe any manager that's won these trophies doesn't just pick players, they also take influence from successful teams in their country because that's what they're used to.

Us and Arsenal are the two best sides in England, 5 of our 10 outfield players play for those two clubs, yet England's coaching staff clearly don't realise its probably worth trying to get something similar going.

England still lack the critical deep lying playmaker that has made the likes of Spain, Germany and Italy so successful. We can't replicate a possession based system because no one has the ability to drop in and run the game from the back, dominating the ball and controlling the tempo.

England are much better suited to being a front foot pressing team, winning the ball back high up the pitch and keeping the ball away from our goal. It's what suited us in the last Euro's where Kane did drop into the space of a 10 and fed the ball in behind to runners. The issue in the final came where through fatigue/mentality or both we dropped off and allowed Italy to dictate the tempo and Southgate couldn't figure out how to change it tactically and no one could get a foot on the ball to change the tide.

That's my issue with Kane. We're several years on, he continues to score bucket loads but doesn't do any work off the ball. As a result we're very easy to pass through and England just will not be good enough to sit in and defend the way an Italy could - we're not drilled that way. Similarly, there's no out ball by going long. Kane does a good job at getting to some and earning a free kick, but if we're deep there's no one playing off him to feed off him or force the opposition back.

We're still seeing this hybrid approach under Southgate. He doesn't want to lose Kane's goals. He knows Foden is a world class talent. But he's also stuck as a result because he doesn't want to lose a double pivot, knowing we need a bit more defensive cover. As a result whilst he might afford Foden flexibility in his positioning now, he will not in the knockouts. We'd be better playing a traditional left winger and the aim be to attack with pace and cross for Kane. That way, if we are pinned in we have a bit more pace and movement on the counter too. Foden wants the ball to feet and that suits a possession-based and front foot defensive system, but with Bellingham and Kane being undroppable he's the one suffering.

Tournament football is long. France are the only side that can manage to go deep despite not dominating possession. They largely play with pace and intensity but they are stacked with physical players who can play that way. I'd argue we are too, but the manager isn't willing to utilise the squad which will end up seeing us fatigued in the latter stages.

 

[mattcity5]

and kind of on this topic, I think there's some credibility to getting a manager who can essentially adopt the tactics that successful teams in that country are using. it's very logical if you think about it. If you look at the Spain team that won the World Cup, their play wasn't that far removed from Barcelona and obviously they had Barcelona players in there. The Germany team that won the World Cup in Brazil pretty much played a typical Bundesliga style of football. Italy won the last Euros and they looked pretty much the same as a top Serie A team does in how they play.

Surely te logical thing is that you get players from teams like City and Arsenal and get them to approach the game in a similar way to what they do every week. obviously it's not so simple because its Southgate, not Pep or Lego Head, but it's just a tournament for a few weeks, I'm sure you can at least imitate a similar approach to football. it's not rocket science. instead we get players used to playing a certain way every week, having massive success doing it and bring them in to play a very rigid kind of football but they're not used to. what do you expect the outcome to be?

I believe any manager that's won these trophies doesn't just pick players, they also take influence from successful teams in their country because that's what they're used to.

Us and Arsenal are the two best sides in England, 5 of our 10 outfield players play for those two clubs, yet England's coaching staff clearly don't realise its probably worth trying to get something similar going.

I've said very similar before.

Base the team around your best club sides who play the same way. Southgate hasn't the time (nor ability) to coach everyone to play a new style, so get people who play a very similar way to each other into the team. Leave out the ones who play a conflicting style.

You could probably throw in Brighton players, and make an exception to keep Kane in the team too.

Like Pep did though, you need to pick a keeper to play this way. For me it'd be between Steele (Brighton) and Trafford. I know that either might seem a risk, but Pickford plays like Joe Hart would have done under Pep - any tiny element of danger and it's away. It'll kill us against decent teams.

 

[mattcity5]

The great John Barnes who did fuck all at international level bar a wonder goal against Brazil.

True but he's possibly right.

Phil's patient and unselfish. He'll play an easy pass but then won't see the ball again because of the flash nobheads in the team doing stupid shit and giving possession away. If we want the absolute best out of Phil he needs surrounding with more similar players on the same wavelength.

 

[bennyboy]

True but he's possibly right.

Phil's patient and unselfish. He'll play an easy pass but then won't see the ball again because of the flash nobheads in the team doing stupid shit and giving possession away. If we want the absolute best out of Phil he needs surrounding with more similar players on the same wavelength.

Agree but Sunday was a bad as it gets performance wise from Phil.
Sadly up there with his cup final performance.

 

[Crooked_rain]

Doesn't matter

The public and media have already picked their whipping boy and it happens to be Phil. I can't say I'm surprised either.

The fact he's getting so much stick because of pretty mediocre game shows that people were looking for an excuse to single someone out.

It'a pathetic just writing players of because of a couple of poor moments in a match. do we think the French media and public will be telling them to drop Mbappe for missing a sitter last night?

I got the feeling some in the media couldn't wait to get their claws into folding because city are public ememy number one in football now for them. And basically 95%%
of the public are as thick as shit anyway, so anything the pundits say they will just follow

 

[Colin Bells Boots]

Doesn't matter

The public and media have already picked their whipping boy and it happens to be Phil. I can't say I'm surprised either.

The fact he's getting so much stick because of pretty mediocre game shows that people were looking for an excuse to single someone out.

It'a pathetic just writing players of because of a couple of poor moments in a match. do we think the French media and public will be telling them to drop Mbappe for missing a sitter last night?

I got the feeling some in the media couldn't wait to get their claws into folding because city are public ememy number one in football now for them. And basically 95%%
of the public are as thick as shit anyway, so anything the pundits say they will just follow

You are fully aware of the media agenda, and Southgate being a tactically numb fucker just plays into their hands with the mis-use of Foden.

There was an outcry from dippers when tront wasn't picked by Southgate, but he can't play in midfield and isn't trusted in defence, so why take the fucker ? Appeasement

The redshirt cartel are a fucking blight on football in this country - aided by the pathetic and weak administration of the PL with Masters being the lackey with no credibility whatsoever.

 

[Love_Each_Day]

Truth is Foden is an odd fit even for us. People say he's playing out of position but where he played for England was similar to 97% of his appearances for us. The only way he works for Southgate is to play him false 9, which would never happen but I think would give England a better chance. You'd probably need Grealish for the left though.

 

[The Blue Eh]

Truth is Foden is an odd fit even for us. People say he's playing out of position but where he played for England was similar to 97% of his appearances for us. The only way he works for Southgate is to play him false 9, which would never happen but I think would give England a better chance. You'd probably need Grealish for the left though.

I don’t agree. Foden is a product of our academy, and over his EDS and first team stints, has been groomed to play the way we (the club/Pep) play, and in all the positions we expect AMs to play.

Unlike a club, a national team cannot buy players to suit their style. They put players in their preferred positions and play to their strengths. England are not doing that with a number of players, including chiefly Foden.