82 | Rico Lewis - 2024/25

[JewelZee]

I have watched it back about ten times, because I thought I must have missed something based on what people in this thread are saying about Lewis, and for me it is 40% on Gvardiol for not closing Semedo down (he ran away rather than to him), 50% on Stones for going walkabout (inexplicably covering no one or even occupying a position where he can impact play), and 10% on Lewis for perhaps not running back as fast as he could.

But, if you watch it back, I think you’ll see that Lewis probably can’t do anything about it even if he does sprint back a bit faster because the crosser was given so much space to put in a great cross and Stones didn’t take a line that would allow him to have a chance at cutting the ball out before it reached a far post runner.

It’s just bizarre to see so many throwing him, of all players, under the bus.

I'm not throwing him under the bus. I'm just saying he could see the potential danger some 40 yards before the ball got to Strand-Larsson but seemed content with running at 60% of his best and trailing him the entire way. Made no attempt to get front-side, goal side.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I think Stones had a shaky first 45 but a better second before scoring the winner, Gvardiol was on balance ok before his absolutely vital stunner, and Lewis, without doing anything flashy, was on the whole the better of the three over the entire match. That’s not to say he was substantially better, but that he was just more consistent and he did everything asked of him well.

I struggle to believe Pep would be unhappy with his performance, much less agree with the various assertions in this thread that Rico “isn’t good enough for us.”

It’s like people have forgotten he’s a 19 year-old not only regularly starting for arguably the best club in the world, but in one of the most demanding roles in modern football, under one of the most demanding managers to ever grace the touchline.

I am really not sure a player people apparently want to replace him even exists. They might in the future… but that will just be Lewis, two or three years older.

If he played for Bayer, Atlético, Inter, or a lower table team, and was interested in joining us, everyone would be demanding we pay the €100 million going rate to get him before Real, Bayern, or Liverpool snap him up.

I don’t agree with the £100m but I do agree with much of the rest.

He has something.

 

[nellyonthewing]

Rico was further forward per instructions, and tried to get back. Stones is meant to stay wider and have a look over his left shoulder to see if there is a runner on the far post, specifically because Lewis will often not be able to get back to cover fast enough (he can’t be in two places at once, despite the expectations of some blues on here). He can easily run to close the man in the middle of the box from that wider position, if needed—and Dias will cut any ball to the middle runner, if he can. If he can’t, Stones isn’t going to be able to do it, so Stones is there to close, not cut out, and tucking closer to the middle runner is entirely unnecessary. It means we have two CBs covering the same runner, with only one actually being able to stop a ball from getting to him.

The goal was mostly down to Stones taking a poor line and thus ceding the great position for a tap in to the Wolves player, as Lewis scrambled back from his more forward position, which Pep has told him to take up in certain possession situations.

I genuinely don’t understand that of all the players this season, Lewis is one being singled out for being not good enough. In my opinion, on average, he is in our top three best players for the season thus far.

Multiple failures for me in that goal. We leave an opponent out on our left wing unmarked almost every game .It invites problems of dangerous crosses getting put in with our defenders on their heels.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I don’t agree with the £100m but I do agree with much of the rest.

He has something.

How much do you think we would need to pay to prise a 19 year-old that has played thousands of minutes in one of the most demanding roles in modern football, in the top competitions in Europe, and has contributed to his team winning those competitions, and who is highly regarded by the likes of Pep Guardiola, away from another club in Spain or Germany? Now how much if he was an English player at another Premier League club?

 

[diamond geezer]

If we sold Lewis how much do you think we would get, @SebastianBlue ?

 

[Barcon]

If we sold Lewis how much do you think we would get, @SebastianBlue ?

Nowhere near as much as we would have to pay for him if we were buying.

 

[ninjamonkey]

Rico was further forward per instructions, and tried to get back. Stones is meant to stay wider and have a look over his left shoulder to see if there is a runner on the far post, specifically because Lewis will often not be able to get back to cover fast enough (he can’t be in two places at once, despite the expectations of some blues on here). He can easily run to close the man in the middle of the box from that wider position, if needed—and Dias will cut any ball to the middle runner, if he can. If he can’t, Stones isn’t going to be able to do it, so Stones is there to close, not cut out, and tucking closer to the middle runner is entirely unnecessary. It means we have two CBs covering the same runner, with only one actually being able to stop a ball from getting to him.

The goal was mostly down to Stones taking a poor line and thus ceding the great position for a tap in to the Wolves player, as Lewis scrambled back from his more forward position, which Pep has told him to take up in certain possession situations.

I genuinely don’t understand that of all the players this season, Lewis is one being singled out for being not good enough. In my opinion, on average, he is in our top three best players for the season thus far.

Rico was back in, him playing further forward in possession had no impact on the goal. We lost the ball on the edge of their box, They went backwards first which allowed us to reset, meaning nobody should be put of position, the ball then pretty much switches flanks twice before they scored, he had ample time to get himself on the correct line, he simply switched off and by time he tried to react it was too late.

Here's a screen shot as the ball is still in their half going out to semedo, he's back in position. just isn't quick enough to spot the danger and put on a sprint.



I'm guessing the last bit isn't directed at me as I've not singled Rico out for not being good enough, simply pointing out that goal was on him and that's something he has to improve because teams will target the space he leaves.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I have two words to say:

Shooting practice!

When, ffs, is he going to score one of the chances he gets?

Today, he had a perfect chance to shoot from about 8 yards out and tried to beat 1 more player. Then, another time, he passed the ball off to Haaland, who was driven wide right, on his right foot, for no danger!

I like him very much and think there’s one helluva player in there, but industry and 5 yard passes are not enough if you’re going play midfield in this team.

SHOOT.THE.BALL!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Rico was back in, him playing further forward in possession had no impact on the goal. We lost the ball on the edge of their box, They went backwards first which allowed us to reset, meaning nobody should be put of position, the ball then pretty much switches flanks twice before they scored, he had ample time to get himself on the correct line, he simply switched off and by time he tried to react it was too late.

Here's a screen shot as the ball is still in their half going out to semedo, he's back in position. just isn't quick enough to spot the danger and put on a sprint.

View attachment 135661

I'm guessing the last bit isn't directed at me as I've not singled Rico out for not being good enough, simply pointing out that goal was on him and that's something he has to improve because teams will target the space he leaves.

We played 3 defenders against a team playing a 5-4-1/5-3-2 and got done on the break by their RB (Doku’s man?!) getting the ball to their CF (Stones/Dias’ man?!), and so I’m struggling to see how Rico could be faulted.

And, let’s be honest, it was a fucking pearler of a cross field pass behind the retreating defenders!

 

[SebastianBlue]

Rico was back in, him playing further forward in possession had no impact on the goal. We lost the ball on the edge of their box, They went backwards first which allowed us to reset, meaning nobody should be put of position, the ball then pretty much switches flanks twice before they scored, he had ample time to get himself on the correct line, he simply switched off and by time he tried to react it was too late.

Here's a screen shot as the ball is still in their half going out to semedo, he's back in position. just isn't quick enough to spot the danger and put on a sprint.

View attachment 135661

I'm guessing the last bit isn't directed at me as I've not singled Rico out for not being good enough, simply pointing out that goal was on him and that's something he has to improve because teams will target the space he leaves.

He was further forward than Stones and if you watch the video, Stones is mostly at fault for the goal, though Gvardiol also shares some of the blame. Lewis was not meant to be tucked between Stones and the far post runner. That would make no sense tactically.

I simply do not agree with the assessment that Lewis is at fault for the goal. There is nothing in the actual replays that indicate he could have done anything about it from the position he was in, which is down to where Pep wants him to play. Stones was the one that was meant to be in a position to cover the far post runner and cut out ball to him. The RB, especially one meant to stay further ahead of the CBs, is not the one that is meant to defend that run, otherwise he would be asked to play RCB.

The space he leaves is by design, so if you fear for how it will be continually targeted as the season goes on, you need to take it up with Pep, not Lewis.

 

[SebastianBlue]

If we sold Lewis how much do you think we would get, @SebastianBlue ?

Right now? Because it is us, probably 40-50 million, with buy back and sell-on clauses. We can’t sell in the same way as lower level development clubs.

If we were to buy a player of his profile and age, though, it would be at least 80 million; and for an English player, 100 million.

For reference, when we bought Stones he was 3 years older than Lewis, with less top level experience, and he cost about 67 million adjusted for inflation. Walker joined when he was 27 and, adjusted for inflation, cost around 62.5 million. De Ligt cost the Rags over 40 million. Calafiori cost Arsenal 42 million. They are both older and far more limited players.

Putting that aside, who do people want us to go after that will do what he does at a higher level in the PL and CL?

 

[youngbob]

A great DM. A pretty average RB.

 

[ninjamonkey]

We played 3 defenders against a team playing a 5-4-1/5-3-2 and got done on the break by their RB (Doku’s man?!) getting the ball to their CF (Stones/Dias’ man?!), and so I’m struggling to see how Rico could be faulted.

And, let’s be honest, it was a fucking pearler of a cross field pass behind the retreating defenders!

the screenshot should clear it up. You can't call semedo, doku's man simply because he's the rwb and doku's the left winger. Doku is in a perfectly fine position pressuring the ball, nobody is out of position there at that point. Rico simply doesn't switch on quickly enough, he starts jogging and the sprint doesn't come soon enough.

You'll notice their striker has peeled off. It would be comical to see stones stay with the striker there as the ball goes to the opposite side, when the ball is on the other side, the whole unit shifts across and the fullback tucks in on the last man, that's just the basics of a back line, you won't see 2 centre backs split, unless you watch united.

He was further forward than Stones and if you watch the video, Stones is mostly at fault for the goal, though Gvardiol also shares some of the blame. Lewis was not meant to be tucked between Stones and the far post runner. That would make no sense tactically.

I simply do not agree with the assessment that Lewis is at fault for the goal. There is nothing in the actual replays that indicate he could have done anything about it from the position he was in, which is down to where Pep wants him to play. Stones was the one that was meant to be in a position to cover the far post runner and cut out ball to him. The RB, especially one meant to stay further ahead of the CBs, is not the one that is meant to defend that run, otherwise he would be asked to play RCB.

The space he leaves is by design, so if you fear for how it will be continually targeted as the season goes on, you need to take it up with Pep, not Lewis.

I've seen the video, that's where the screenshot has come from, where pep wants him to play in possession has no influence on this goal. He's already back in the right back position before the ball even enters our half, at that point, he's the conventional fullback and expected to do the basics of a fullback. Gvardiol goes towards the ball, dias shifts across, stones positions off dias and Rico tucks in. They all actually attempt that, the error is Rico doesn't do it quickly enough.

He's another screenshot as the ball leaves semedos foot, you surely cannot be suggesting stones should be with the goalscorer there? Stones has to position himself off dias, he cannot leave a chasm between his centre back partner. It's a clear basic error from Lewis.

 

[SebastianBlue]

the screenshot should clear it up. You can't call semedo, doku's man simply because he's the rwb and doku's the left winger. Doku is in a perfectly fine position pressuring the ball, nobody is out of position there at that point. Rico simply doesn't switch on quickly enough, he starts jogging and the sprint doesn't come soon enough.

You'll notice their striker has peeled off. It would be comical to see stones stay with the striker there as the ball goes to the opposite side, when the ball is on the other side, the whole unit shifts across and the fullback tucks in on the last man, that's just the basics of a back line, you won't see 2 centre backs split, unless you watch united.



I've seen the video, that's where the screenshot has come from, where pep wants him to play in possession has no influence on this goal. He's already back in the right back position before the ball even enters our half, at that point, he's the conventional fullback and expected to do the basics of a fullback. Gvardiol goes towards the ball, dias shifts across, stones positions off dias and Rico tucks in. They all actually attempt that, the error is Rico doesn't do it quickly enough.

He's another screenshot as the ball leaves semedos foot, you surely cannot be suggesting stones should be with the goalscorer there? Stones has to position himself off dias, he cannot leave a chasm between his centre back partner. It's a clear basic error from Lewis.

View attachment 135667

Stones absolutely should be making a line toward the far post runner. The line he took had absolutely no impact on play. If you move through the frames as the ball is about halfway through the box, you’ll see he is in no man’s land: he isn’t covering the middle runner and he is nowhere near the far post runner.

Why would that be what you (or Pep) wanted Stones to do? Tactically it makes no sense; he took himself out of the game by making the run toward the Wolves player Dias was already covering.

If he had instead taken a line wide, he would have had a chance of cutting out the ball to the far post runner. He was, geometrically, the best placed to do that for a low cross that bypassed the player Dias was covering.

Lewis never had a chance of doing that.

 

[The Stockport Iniesta]

I have two words to say:

Shooting practice!

When, ffs, is he going to score one of the chances he gets?

Today, he had a perfect chance to shoot from about 8 yards out and tried to beat 1 more player. Then, another time, he passed the ball off to Haaland, who was driven wide right, on his right foot, for no danger!

I like him very much and think there’s one helluva player in there, but industry and 5 yard passes are not enough if you’re going play midfield in this team.

SHOOT.THE.BALL!

That's actually the downside, he's not confident in front of goal. There was another occasion in the 2nd half, the ball dropped perfectly for a shot on the edge of the box and he tried the most ridiculous pass inside defenders for Savinho, the pass was never on, just take the shot.

 

[samuelyeboah]

really slow. that's just not acceptable in the positions that he's asked to take. far too often jogs back lazily to position as we get countered. without rodri to help the defense we can't play with this sort of fullback

 

[Jonas.shaffer]

really slow. that's just not acceptable in the positions that he's asked to take. far too often jogs back lazily to position as we get countered. without rodri to help the defense we can't play with this sort of fullback

That's on Pep, though. As I said previously, he literally has to run 2x further than anyone to get back into position as Pep has him deployed in possession more or less as an attacking midfielder.

 

[samuelyeboah]

That's on Pep, though. As I said previously, he literally has to run 2x further than anyone to get back into position as Pep has him deployed in possession more or less as an attacking midfielder.

yeah wasn't blaming him, just saying this is an issue that needs resolving

 

[sh249]

That's on Pep, though. As I said previously, he literally has to run 2x further than anyone to get back into position as Pep has him deployed in possession more or less as an attacking midfielder.

Yeah. It‘s one thing having the full back shuffle inside like Delph and Zinchenko have both done well in the past. It‘s another to ask him to get into pockets of space ahead of the deepest midfielders.
Feels like he (and we) would benefit from a simplification of the role, if we‘re going to stick with this shape / system.

 

[OrigamiNinja]

That's on Pep, though. As I said previously, he literally has to run 2x further than anyone to get back into position as Pep has him deployed in possession more or less as an attacking midfielder.

IMO Rico doesn’t offer enough in the opposition half to justify the loss at RB. He doesn’t score goals and has minimal impact on chance creation. Yeah he is neat and tidy in possession but I would expect the same of nearly all youngsters who have spent most of their footballing development in our academy.

I don’t see the value in having a RB who spends most of a game moving into midfield, who then fails to impact the game defensively or offensively. Maybe it’s unfair to compare but we only have to look at the impact Gvardiol has in both halves of the pitch, to see that Rico falls seriously short in comparison.

IMO this current side (a Rodri free midfield) cannot sustain Rico at RB. That’s not Ricos fault, we just need someone who is more defensively minded/solid. I am really surprised Pep hasn’t returned to the 4 CBs solution to give us more solidity. I’d like to see Akanji at RB.