A brief glimpse of God and Creation

[Damocles]

It amazes me how people have developed such a misguided and warped opinion of Religion, Christianity and the Catholic church.

For your benefit I shall repeat myself again.

Child abuse is a consequence of evolution.
Child abusers are devious people who never had the vocation to the priesthood, but targetted it as an opportunity to pursue their deviant behaviour.
The church took a few years to get to grips with the scandal, develop a policy and implement it round the world but it has been now.

Religious people everywhere are no different to anyone else in finding child abuse abhorrent.

This is infuriatingly stupid. Child abuse is a consequence of evolution in the same way that if your view of creation was correct, child abuse would be a consequence of God's plan.

For those without the benefit of reading 10 pages back, pauldominic uses the "[BAD THING] is a consequence of evolution" line as a truism. That is, he believes that anything that currently exists (from child abuse, to human charity) is a consequence of evolution because it exists. It is this type of circular logic that was previously exposed, and I thought the matter settled. Obviously, he still thinks that he can get away with this type of outrageously pathetic comment in lieu of having an actual argument.

Guilt by association, and in the most transparent possible manner. PD, you can claim to be as Christian as you like, but your "arguments" on this forum have shown you to be dishonest in both principle and in belief. I sometimes wish that the Christ really was a deity so that he would come back and show modern Christianity how very far away they are from his own messages. Know what would actually make the world a better place? If Christians were more like Christ and less like close minded fools who believe that their version is correct. "We don't need no evidence, we got ourselves a book". Funny that, I seem to remember Jesus been a bit of a progressive individual rather than a conservative, but then, many Christians are Christian as a way to feel superior to others rather than accept the initially depressing reality of existence.

Whichever way you like to look at it, you're currently clinging to a ball of rock that's falling through space. You aren't special. Your deities have no relevance to the Universe. Your understanding has no relevance to the Universe. It is what it is, whether you like it or not. You can claim all of the special knowledge in the world, but until you come up with some direct evidence for it, you're schizophrenics talking to voices in your head.

 

[SWP's back]

See you in the usual pew on Sunday Damo?

 

[pauldominic]

It amazes me how people have developed such a misguided and warped opinion of Religion, Christianity and the Catholic church.

For your benefit I shall repeat myself again.

Child abuse is a consequence of evolution.
Child abusers are devious people who never had the vocation to the priesthood, but targetted it as an opportunity to pursue their deviant behaviour.
The church took a few years to get to grips with the scandal, develop a policy and implement it round the world but it has been now.

Religious people everywhere are no different to anyone else in finding child abuse abhorrent.

This is infuriatingly stupid. Child abuse is a consequence of evolution in the same way that if your view of creation was correct, child abuse would be a consequence of God's plan.

For those without the benefit of reading 10 pages back, pauldominic uses the "[BAD THING] is a consequence of evolution" line as a truism. That is, he believes that anything that currently exists (from child abuse, to human charity) is a consequence of evolution because it exists. It is this type of circular logic that was previously exposed, and I thought the matter settled. Obviously, he still thinks that he can get away with this type of outrageously pathetic comment in lieu of having an actual argument.

Guilt by association, and in the most transparent possible manner. PD, you can claim to be as Christian as you like, but your "arguments" on this forum have shown you to be dishonest in both principle and in belief. I sometimes wish that the Christ really was a deity so that he would come back and show modern Christianity how very far away they are from his own messages. Know what would actually make the world a better place? If Christians were more like Christ and less like close minded fools who believe that their version is correct. "We don't need no evidence, we got ourselves a book". Funny that, I seem to remember Jesus been a bit of a progressive individual rather than a conservative, but then, many Christians are Christian as a way to feel superior to others rather than accept the initially depressing reality of existence.

Whichever way you like to look at it, you're currently clinging to a ball of rock that's falling through space. You aren't special. Your deities have no relevance to the Universe. Your understanding has no relevance to the Universe. It is what it is, whether you like it or not. You can claim all of the special knowledge in the world, but until you come up with some direct evidence for it, you're schizophrenics talking to voices in your head.

Utter Bollocks Damocles.

Evolution also provides an explanation for altruism and altruistic behaviour.

It truly staggers me that after hundreds of pages of attempting to explain I should be on the receiving end of this kind of post.

The current line of questioning was about the [bad thing] not about altruism and charity.

Please tell me where I have been "dishonest in both principle and in belief".

You're entirely correct about Jesus being a progressive individual, but I have no idea how you think that Christians are morally superior to anyone. That is a complete misunderstanding of Christianity.

Its also ridiculous to assume that "Christians are Christian as a way to feel superior to others".

 

[york away to this!]

It amazes me how people have developed such a misguided and warped opinion of Religion, Christianity and the Catholic church.

For your benefit I shall repeat myself again.

Child abuse is a consequence of evolution.
Child abusers are devious people who never had the vocation to the priesthood, but targetted it as an opportunity to pursue their deviant behaviour.
The church took a few years to get to grips with the scandal, develop a policy and implement it round the world but it has been now.

Religious people everywhere are no different to anyone else in finding child abuse abhorrent.

This is infuriatingly stupid. Child abuse is a consequence of evolution in the same way that if your view of creation was correct, child abuse would be a consequence of God's plan.

For those without the benefit of reading 10 pages back, pauldominic uses the "[BAD THING] is a consequence of evolution" line as a truism. That is, he believes that anything that currently exists (from child abuse, to human charity) is a consequence of evolution because it exists. It is this type of circular logic that was previously exposed, and I thought the matter settled. Obviously, he still thinks that he can get away with this type of outrageously pathetic comment in lieu of having an actual argument.

Guilt by association, and in the most transparent possible manner. PD, you can claim to be as Christian as you like, but your "arguments" on this forum have shown you to be dishonest in both principle and in belief. I sometimes wish that the Christ really was a deity so that he would come back and show modern Christianity how very far away they are from his own messages. Know what would actually make the world a better place? If Christians were more like Christ and less like close minded fools who believe that their version is correct. "We don't need no evidence, we got ourselves a book". Funny that, I seem to remember Jesus been a bit of a progressive individual rather than a conservative, but then, many Christians are Christian as a way to feel superior to others rather than accept the initially depressing reality of existence.

Whichever way you like to look at it, you're currently clinging to a ball of rock that's falling through space. You aren't special. Your deities have no relevance to the Universe. Your understanding has no relevance to the Universe. It is what it is, whether you like it or not. You can claim all of the special knowledge in the world, but until you come up with some direct evidence for it, you're schizophrenics talking to voices in your head.

Utter Bollocks Damocles.

Evolution also provides an explanation for altruism and altruistic behaviour.

It truly staggers me that after hundreds of pages of attempting to explain I should be on the receiving end of this kind of post.

The current line of questioning was about the [bad thing] not about altruism and charity.

Please tell me where I have been "dishonest in both principle and in belief".

You're entirely correct about Jesus being a progressive individual, but I have no idea how you think that Christians are morally superior to anyone. That is a complete misunderstanding of Christianity.

Its also ridiculous to assume that "Christians are Christian as a way to feel superior to others".[/quote]

I quite agree. Christians are quite clearly Christian as they are completely and utterly insane, have a persecution or inferiority complex or are desperate for something in which to believe to cover their personal tragedy/trauma or inadequacies.


...and there endeth the sermon for this evening.

 

[pauldominic]

In my opinion, except for exclusive religious state-maintained schools, no, schools do not teach the word of God. They teach about many religions, their traditions, customs and teachings etc. and do not endorse one over the other or over atheism, agnosticism, humanism etc. At the same time schools also teach big bang and evolution.

You'll probably find that Primary Schools are different. I didn't go to a religious school but we had prayers and shit in assembly and were read the Bible.

From my old Primary School's prospectus:

Religious Education
Religious Education is the search for meaning and fulfilment in life and pupils’
personal experiences of this search. This process is enriched by developing
insight and experience of various faiths.
Assemblies and RE lessons are based mainly on the Christian faith and the
development of a moral framework. Knowledge, beliefs and understanding are
developed by comparing the Christian faith with other world religions. Religious
Education should make a significant contribution to the school’s spiritual and
multicultural curriculum and its ethos.
Parents can withdraw their child from the daily Act of Collective Worship
(assemblies) on religious grounds, following consultation with the Headteacher.

I doubt that it's all that more enlightened elsewhere in the country. It's too ingrained and easy to fall back on using religion for creating a moral framework.

The National Curriculum Core Subjects are:
• English
• Mathematics
• Science
• ICT
• Religious Education

It's a bad joke that Religious Education is one of the 5. If the 5th one was Philosophy we'd be far better off.

-- Tue May 31, 2011 2:18 pm --

i believe its naive to think we're on earth just by co-incidence.

Indeed, isn't is a very strange co-incidence that we need oxygen to survive and there appears to be plenty of it around!

How can we make sense of this? Isn't it about time we understood this?





Oh Hang on...

-- Tue May 31, 2011 2:23 pm --

It amazes me how people have developed such a misguided and warped opinion of Religion, Christianity and the Catholic church.

For your benefit I shall repeat myself again.

Child abuse is a consequence of evolution.
Child abusers are devious people who never had the vocation to the priesthood, but targetted it as an opportunity to pursue their deviant behaviour.
The church took a few years to get to grips with the scandal, develop a policy and implement it round the world but it has been now.

You talk a lot of shit.

-- Tue May 31, 2011 2:31 pm --

I read the first sentence and dismissed him.

Have you ever heard of the cold war?

I've had a very good career working in defence of the west against the soviet union of which bulgaria was part of.

How is life since the berlin wall collapsed?

I may have missed something, I thought we were talking about child abuse about a page and a half ago?

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derailment_%28thought_disorder%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derailment ... isorder%29</a>

In a mild manifestation, this thought disorder is characterized by slippage of ideas further and further from the point of a discussion. Some of the synonyms given above (loosening of association, asyndetic thinking) are used by some authors to refer just to a loss of goal: discourse that sets off on a particular idea, wanders off and never returns to it. A related term is tangentiality—it refers to off-the-point, oblique or irrelevant answers given to questions.

Normal service resumed.

By loosening of association do you mean the way that this thread has wandered miles off topic and a lot should have posted under the tonea2003 thread?<br /><br />-- Tue May 31, 2011 7:27 pm --<br /><br />

This is infuriatingly stupid. Child abuse is a consequence of evolution in the same way that if your view of creation was correct, child abuse would be a consequence of God's plan.

For those without the benefit of reading 10 pages back, pauldominic uses the "[BAD THING] is a consequence of evolution" line as a truism. That is, he believes that anything that currently exists (from child abuse, to human charity) is a consequence of evolution because it exists. It is this type of circular logic that was previously exposed, and I thought the matter settled. Obviously, he still thinks that he can get away with this type of outrageously pathetic comment in lieu of having an actual argument.

Guilt by association, and in the most transparent possible manner. PD, you can claim to be as Christian as you like, but your "arguments" on this forum have shown you to be dishonest in both principle and in belief. I sometimes wish that the Christ really was a deity so that he would come back and show modern Christianity how very far away they are from his own messages. Know what would actually make the world a better place? If Christians were more like Christ and less like close minded fools who believe that their version is correct. "We don't need no evidence, we got ourselves a book". Funny that, I seem to remember Jesus been a bit of a progressive individual rather than a conservative, but then, many Christians are Christian as a way to feel superior to others rather than accept the initially depressing reality of existence.

Whichever way you like to look at it, you're currently clinging to a ball of rock that's falling through space. You aren't special. Your deities have no relevance to the Universe. Your understanding has no relevance to the Universe. It is what it is, whether you like it or not. You can claim all of the special knowledge in the world, but until you come up with some direct evidence for it, you're schizophrenics talking to voices in your head.

Utter Bollocks Damocles.

Evolution also provides an explanation for altruism and altruistic behaviour.

It truly staggers me that after hundreds of pages of attempting to explain I should be on the receiving end of this kind of post.

The current line of questioning was about the [bad thing] not about altruism and charity.

Please tell me where I have been "dishonest in both principle and in belief".

You're entirely correct about Jesus being a progressive individual, but I have no idea how you think that Christians are morally superior to anyone. That is a complete misunderstanding of Christianity.

Its also ridiculous to assume that "Christians are Christian as a way to feel superior to others".[/quote]

I quite agree. Christians are quite clearly Christian as they are completely and utterly insane, have a persecution or inferiority complex or are desperate for something in which to believe to cover their personal tragedy/trauma or inadequacies.


...and there endeth the sermon for this evening.

More utter bollocks.

 

[york away to this!]

thank you!

 

[SWP's back]

"more utter bollocks"

Mark 2 verse 7 - my favourite part of the sermon

 

[york away to this!]

"more utter bollocks"

Mark 2 verse 7 - my favourite part of the sermon

ahhhh, my mistake - I thought it said "mutter bollocks"........ just doing what the good lord would want me to do!

 

[Damocles]

Utter Bollocks Damocles.

Evolution also provides an explanation for altruism and altruistic behaviour.

Exactly. You state a truism. That because the species evolve by the process of evolution, everything the species does has a root cause of that process. It's like saying that parents are responsible for the behaviour of their children BECAUSE they produced them, thus without those parents, the child would not exist.

It truly staggers me that after hundreds of pages of attempting to explain I should be on the receiving end of this kind of post.

The current line of questioning was about the [bad thing] not about altruism and charity.

Please tell me where I have been "dishonest in both principle and in belief".

Because in an argument about child abuse, you try to "blame" a process as a consequence for it. Aa you previously mentioned, evolution is responsible for EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS, EVER EXISTED, EVER WILL EXIST, HAS EVER HAPPENED, WILL EVER HAPPEN, HAS EVER BEEN THOUGHT, CONSIDERED, CONCEIVED, ACTED UPON, OPERATED OR EXECUTED.


When you use this ridiculous guilt by association, it lowers the tone of the argument. You are implicitly making the connection; child abuse = bad, evolution = child abuse, evolution = bad. Which is intellectually dishonest and downright silly.

Here are some other things that child abuse are a consequence of, under YOUR broad generalisation:

Child abuse is a consequence of existence.
Child abuse is a consequence of the Universe
Child abuse is a consequence of parents.
Child abuse is a consequence of having children.
Child abuse is a consequence of having gentalia.
Child abuse is a consequence of development of the mind.
Child abuse is a consequence of religion.
Child abuse is a consequence of multi-cellular life.
Child abuse is a consequence of Western attitudes towards sex.
Child abuse is a consequence of the illegality of child abuse.

All of the above are true in your definition that you include evolution within. Why not go up to a parent and tell them that it is their fault that their child was abused, because they had a child in the first place. This is essentially what your "consequence of evolution" bullshit said.

You're entirely correct about Jesus being a progressive individual, but I have no idea how you think that Christians are morally superior to anyone. That is a complete misunderstanding of Christianity.

Yes, I often find that the people who know the least about Christianity are the Christians.

Its also ridiculous to assume that "Christians are Christian as a way to feel superior to others".

No it isn't. Religious people, by their very nature, look down upon unbelievers. They are "lost sheep" who must hear the "Good News", because only you guys know "the Truth" and "the Word of Lord" because you are "God's chosen people" who are "created in the image of Him".

Yeah, that's not patronising at all.

 

[buzzer1]

I have'nt had much to say on this thread as some of the quotes are over my head, but yet again Bluemoon does'nt disappoint.

Pauldominic has answered every single question that was aimed at him, some a little belated and as far as i can see there is only Paul and Uwerosler that have been if you like "Bombarded", it is fair enough to put eachothers points across and rigorously scrutinize one belief to the next, but Paul has'nt deserved some of the namecalling and aggression that this thread has thrown up, thick skin or not,it is'nt nice guys, that is all.