A War On Three Fronts

[dave_blue12]

I think I made one error when talking about the war on three fronts, well two I guess. The main error was implying a war on many fronts is a bad idea, I mean it is, strategically, but judging by the responses in the Brexit thread I forgot that for some conflict with Europe, or with ourselves, is not a means to an end but an end in itself.

Just as in Orwell’s 1984 the war with Eastasia or Eurasia was a distraction, an end in itself it seems the only value in Brexit is perpetual conflict. For Brexit to ‘work’ it needs always to be in conflict, demands to make it work must always be out of reach, and if we ever agree something then it must be repudiated later because Brexit can never reach its end state or become real.

i have touched on this before, that Brexit can only exist in a state of permanent grievance, but I still forget it because for me it’s not a natural mindset and I need to relearn it every time I come across it.

Which brings me to the second error which was talking about and asking ‘what next’. But there is no ‘what next’. The conflict, the drama is always ‘what’s next’. I look for strategy, an end game when there is no ‘end game’. Perpetual conflict be it the EU, Europe, Ireland, Scotland, BBC, Remainers, is the end game. The UK will always make negotiations unworkable because making them work is not the point or purpose of the negotiations. Their purpose is to always be in negotiations, to be always yelling at the EU or demonstrating how they still want to ‘contain us’ or ‘dictate to us’.

You can see examples of this in the Brexit thread, endless harking back to May, her ‘surrender’ deal, how Remainers must wish they had backed May’s deal, the celebration of the UK reneging on a Treaty it signed just nine months ago, how it is of no consequence that a GE was fought on the issue of the WA and that we are going back on that too. Nothing matters, as others have pointed out, but feeding that grievance, a grievance that will never be satisfied.

So, in summary I think I answered my own OP. I just need to keep reminding myself of the answer and for my own sake keep asking ‘what next?’

Orwell said it so well.

"The war is not meant to be won, it is meant to be continuous. ... The war is waged by the ruling group against its own subjects and its object is not the victory over either Eurasia or East Asia, but to keep the very structure of society intact" - Orwell 1984.

 

[blueinsa]

What stops the war?

Let me guess......we remain in the EU?

 

[west didsblue]

What stops the war?

Let me guess......we remain in the EU?

How do we remain in something we’ve already left?
You need to accept that Brexit has happened.

 

[blueinsa]

How do we remain in something we’ve already left?
You need to accept that Brexit has happened.

lol.

Let dave know will you ;-)

 

[west didsblue]

lol.

Let dave know will you ;-)

It’s not Dave arguing for an extreme interpretation of the 2016 vote. That vote has been delivered already and is no longer relevant.

 

[blueinsa]

It’s not Dave arguing for an extreme interpretation of the 2016 vote. That vote has been delivered already and is no longer relevant.

I don't see anyone arguing for it either?

I see negotiations, both sides with red lines, both sides saying they wont budge which could end with a no deal.

I'm fine with that. Want a deal and believe we will get a deal but prepared if we dont. You, dave and many others are not so again, where is this war being fought?

What ails you within?

 

[BobKowalski]

I don't see anyone arguing for it either?

I see negotiations, both sides with red lines, both sides saying they wont budge which could end with a no deal.

I'm fine with that. Want a deal and believe we will get a deal but prepared if we dont. You, dave and many others are not so again, where is this war being fought?

What ails you within?

I think I was fairly clear. We are fighting on three fronts. Externally we are fighting the EU and to do that we are doubling down on an internal fight with the devolved nations of Scotland and Wales, fuelling nationalism as a consequence.

Finally we are fighting a war with a new virus which has caused severe disruption to our economy and is still ongoing.

The UK does not have the capacity to fight on three fronts, it barely has the capacity to fight on one which is why we becoming unhinged with talk of blockades and the removing of Human rights. When ‘dear leader’ starts increasing the rhetoric and lies to eleven you know it’s going all going to hell.

 

[blueinsa]

I think I was fairly clear. We are fighting on three fronts. Externally we are fighting the EU and to do that we are doubling down on an internal fight with the devolved nations of Scotland and Wales, fuelling nationalism as a consequence.

Finally we are fighting a war with a new virus which has caused severe disruption to our economy and is still ongoing.

The UK does not have the capacity to fight on three fronts, it barely has the capacity to fight on one which is why we becoming unhinged with talk of blockades and the removing of Human rights. When ‘dear leader’ starts increasing the rhetoric and lies to eleven you know it’s going all going to hell.

I've heard you Bob.

The UK is a basket case incapable of doing anything on its own anymore.

 

[purplenose]

I've heard you Bob.

The UK is a basket case incapable of doing anything on its own anymore.

The problem being even as a leaver if that is Bobs point then I have to agree with him by and large. That sadly has been proved beyond any doubt during the past few months where both government and opposition have further proved that both are a disgrace and have no place in a decent society, the are both rotten to the chore and until a decent alternative manifests itself we are in deep trouble.

Not that I think the current political direction of the EU is a decent alternative even whilst we are in such a sorry state I should add.

 

[BobKowalski]

I've heard you Bob.

The UK is a basket case incapable of doing anything on its own anymore.

Again, you are being emotional. State capacity in many areas has been reduced over the last decade due to austerity, this is one of the reasons why we fared comparatively badly during the pandemic. Other countries had greater State capacity.

A crisis on three fronts will stretch our State capacity beyond its reach. Just as an army cannot fight on too many fronts, neither can a State. The biggest danger of the Internal Market Bill is the attempt by London to take back devolved powers which will provoke internal conflict we will find difficult to manage. Conflict with Ireland over NI at the same time will add to the crisis, increased trade barriers with the EU (either with a deal or without) and all against the unknown variable of the virus in mid-winter will add further strain.

None of what we are doing is sensible or rationale, hence the constant appeal to the emotional (blockades, foreign powers, enemies internal and external, etc). To view any of these issues objectively is no longer possible, stirring up the emotional appeal to bolster our case also stirs up the emotional revulsion on the other side.

Nationalism and division invariably ends in tears.