Alexandole Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

[Ban-jani]

Those nasty lefties, with all there do gooding.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Those nasty lefties, with all there do gooding.

Wasn't Hitler a social Conservative?

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Mostly because, as you say, most people are in the middle and they are sick to death of fringe nobodies who seem to have the biggest mouths, are most active on social media, and just can’t shut the fuck up with their minority crackpot ideals that nearly all of the rest of the country disagree with.

How true, that describes many on here, but the reality of the situation is
now stark, minority crackpot ideals are getting the old heave-ho. According
to a recent Com Res poll, Johnson has increased his popularity rating from
38 to 43, whilst Starmer has dropped from 31 to 27.
At this stage into his tenure even Magic Grandpa was polling higher.

 

[jaseirai]

How true, that describes many on here, but the reality of the situation is
now stark, minority crackpot ideals are getting the old heave-ho. According
to a recent Com Res poll, Johnson has increased his popularity rating from
38 to 43, whilst Starmer has dropped from 31 to 27.
At this stage into his tenure even Magic Grandpa was polling higher.

Hard to believe he’s in the lead with all the food riots, medicine shortages and sterling’s collapse.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Hard to believe he’s in the lead with all the food riots, medicine shortages and sterling’s collapse.

Lol, indeed it is.

 

[Ban-jani]

Wasn't Hitler a social Conservative?

No, he imprisoned social conservatives.

Behind communists, conservatives and social democrats were his biggest opposition.

The traditional German movement saw him as an ally at first and then quickly became horrified at what he said and did.

Edit: both the left and the right have wrongly tried to tie Hitler to each other’s opposition since the 40’s. With the right saying he evoked a type of socialism to his politics and the left saying he was right wing in his social policies. Whilst both are somewhat correct, every single one of us espousing our politics, openly, in Berlin in 1933-1945, would have been lined up and shot. You, me, Rascal, Urban, Fumble, AC... everyone on this forum would have been an enemy to Hitler and killed if we publicly spoke in favour of our views.

 

[Rascal]

Wasn't Hitler a social Conservative?

Yes. Especially in terms of his greater emphasis upon nationalism and isolationism, pro social hierarchy in terms of gender, ethnicity, and race.

He was very much a Social Conservative.

You could even argue that the lack of condemnation of him from the Papacy cemented it.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

No, he imprisoned social conservatives.

Behind communists, conservatives and social democrats were his biggest opposition.

The traditional German movement saw him as an ally at first and then quickly became horrified at what he said and did.

Edit: both the left and the right have wrongly tried to tie Hitler to each other’s opposition since the 40’s. With the right saying he evoked a type of socialism to his politics and the left saying he was right wing in his social policies. Whilst both are somewhat correct, every single one of us espousing our politics, openly, in Berlin in 1933-1945, would have been lined up and shot. You, me, Rascal, Urban, Fumble, AC... everyone on this forum would have been an enemy to Hitler and killed if we publicly spoke in favour of our views.

Isn't the danger that you face by voting for this hypothetical social Conservative party that harks back to a forgotten cultural golden era that you may be empowering a wolf in sheep's clothing. Someone who professes these kind of views and faith in democracy but then erodes checks and balances and institutions, and then starts inflicting inhumane treatment on minorities or opponents. Hitler is the extreme of this because he had unconstrained power and greater opportunity but there are examples from modern times in Trump, Peace and Justice in Poland and Orban in Hungary.

 

[Ban-jani]

Isn't the danger that you face by voting for this hypothetical social Conservative party that harks back to a forgotten cultural golden era that you may be empowering a wolf in sheep's clothing. Someone who professes these kind of views and faith in democracy but then erodes checks and balances and institutions, and then starts inflicting inhumane treatment on minorities or opponents. Hitler is the extreme of this because he had unconstrained power and greater opportunity but there are examples from modern times in Trump, Peace and Justice in Poland and Orban in Hungary.

Have you considered voting Labour could do exactly the same but for communism and we could end up with a Stalin?

In the grand scheme of things you’re left of centre and I am right of centre, we don’t need to be accusing the other of being extreme.

This country has been conservative for decades, maybe even centuries and never had a Hitler in the modern age... or any age. It’s partly why I support the monarchy. The monarch has some controls on the PM and Parliament on the Monarch.

My views contradict Hitler’s completely, this sort of soft accusation is both baffling and laughable to be honest but it’s where we are in 2021, I have to somehow prove why my views don’t support a Hitler type or something that could lead to it, despite never uttering stuff that is Nazism.

Ironically the Jewish left one party in their droves in 2019 but even then, I wouldn’t accuse that of being your fault.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Well we’ve already been over some. I’ll give you a fexamples for now but can give more if you want:

- The family unit being the centre piece of society. Every study shows a breakdown of this leads to crime and poverty.

- Tough on crime. Doesn’t need explaining.

- Tighter immigration controls. Doesn’t need explaining.

- Preservation of our institutions. Doesn’t need explaining.

- A view of liberty under law. Having a strong sense of law but allowing freedom beneath that is a cornerstone of western civilisation.

- A private sector that can trade freely, which lifts people out of poverty and allows them to own their own property. (Worth noting I am not neoliberal and I support a big safety net to help those that the private sector fails)


Now, I’m going to counter two points I think you might make:

1) “but the Tories...” yes I know, they don’t have a monopoly on conservatism as an ideology and they certainly don’t live up to my standards of it.

2) “some of these aren’t exclusive to the right” again, yes I know, traditional Labour governments of the mid 20th century supported some of these ideas and that’s why I admire Bevan, Attlee etc.

- The family unit being the centre piece of society. Every study shows a breakdown of this leads to crime and poverty.

From the party that capped Child Benefit at a maximum of two children (irrespective of how many kids you had or your religious beliefs , introduced the bedroom tax and voted against feeding disadvantaged kids during the school holidays in the middle of a pandemic.

- Tough on crime. Doesn’t need explaining.

From the party that reduced police front line numbers by 23000 since 2010 has seen the number of rape convictions drop to practically zero etc etc

A view of liberty under law. Having a strong sense of law but allowing freedom beneath that is a cornerstone of western civilisation.

How does this help the average person ? There isn't a policy introduced by the Tories that doesn't contain an element of punishment (usually disproportionate and weighted against those that cant afford it )

A private sector that can trade freely, which lifts people out of poverty and allows them to own their own property.

Vast majority of the employed in the uk have to access some form of welfare be it child allowance , income support, tax credits etc..... i in every 4 in the UK live below the internationally recognised poverty line. They are supported by the tax payer whilst the wealthy avoid paying the correct level of tax. I dont think that or kids will be able to afford their own property either.