Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[Ban-jani]

Come on mate. You have just said Thatcher was 'infinitely better than 2 (excluding Merkel) of the best female politicians we've ever seen.

Ask literally anyone in Wales, Scotland, NI or the North of England if they agree with that assessment.

I’m from the north of England.

I stand by my comments.

It‘s fine though, it’s alright to disagree you know?

 

[Vicious111]

I’m from the north of England.

I stand by my comments.

It‘s fine though, it’s alright to disagree you know?

Absolutely, we can disagree. But what exactly did Thatcher do, apart from launching an Armada to the Falklands, that was so admirable?

Poll tax? Police brutality against hard working miners? Assault on unions? Corrupt ties with Murdoch?

Genuinely. I'm curious as a Northman what your appeal is. Woman was an absolute tyrant.

 

[Ban-jani]

Absolutely, we can disagree. But what exactly did Thatcher do, apart from launching an Armada to the Falklands, that was so admirable?

Poll tax? Police brutality against hard working miners? Assault on unions? Corrupt ties with Murdoch?

Genuinely. I'm curious as a Northman what your appeal is. Woman was an absolute tyrant.

The Argentinians needed a good hiding.

So did Arthur Scargill.

Poll tax was ridiculous yeah but the majority make mistakes being in power for so long.

She’s the reason I didn’t grow up working in a coal mine or factory and I’ve been able to work myself to earning a very decent living, despite having little qualifications and being working class.

The short term was bad for many yes, but longer term the country was much better for Thatcher, getting rid of failing industries.

Under Blair we had the best rise in living standards ever and it was because of the work she put in.

Plus, other than Churchill, she’s by far the most respectable in her sheer determination, especially considering she was a woman.

No offence to Ardern and New Zealand, it’s a stunning country, but it has more sheep than people, it’s hardly comparable and AOC, well she’s struck a cord with many but I’ve seen her utterly fail in some interviews.

Plus she endorsed Corbyn so she can get in the bin.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Come on mate. You have just said Thatcher was 'infinitely better than 2 (excluding Merkel) of the best female politicians we've ever seen.

Ask literally anyone in Wales, Scotland, NI or the North of England if they agree with that assessment.

No need mate, ask anyone who was around at the time why they voted for
her three times. You can include those three areas of the UK in the survey.

 

[Vicious111]

The Argentinians needed a good hiding.

So did Arthur Scargill.

Poll tax was ridiculous yeah but the majority make mistakes being in power for so long.

She’s the reason I didn’t grow up working in a coal mine or factory and I’ve been able to work myself to earning a very decent living, despite having little qualifications and being working class.

The short term was bad for many yes, but longer term the country was much better for Thatcher, getting rid of failing industries.

Under Blair we had the best rise in living standards ever and it was because of the work she put in.

Plus, other than Churchill, she’s by far the most respectable in her sheer determination, especially considering she was a woman.

No offence to Ardern and New Zealand, it’s a stunning country, but it has more sheep than people, it’s hardly comparable and AOC, well she’s struck a cord with many but I’ve seen her utterly fail in some interviews.

Plus she endorsed Corbyn so she can get in the bin.

Thatcher's policy on Poll tax was not just a mistake. It was a complete disregard for both Scotland and working class people in general. You may also say this was the beginning of the end of the United Kingdom as it sparked the independence movement. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you how damaging that will be.

To also claim that she was responsible for single handedly reforming the UK economy from Industrial era industries to modern industry is quite naive. For starters, Denis Healy had already implemented a number of policy innovations prior to her taking office and had introduced monetary targets and cash limits for Whitehall departments to move the UK away from its stagnant position in European economics. Also, these industries were industrial era industries and were on their way out anyway. With time, new industries develop worldwide, so claiming she embraced them, I think, is incorrect.

Primarily because she had the full prospective earning from North Sea oil at her disposal to kick start a new economic era. Which has been entirely squandered. Norway finds itself with a 2 trillion trust fund. Does Scotland? Does it fuck. The tax breaks provided to oil companies over these years have been nothing short of criminal. We also were reaping the benefits of a newly formed single European market (which she helped cement - to her credit).

I also don't respect her determination. I do not find that an admirable trait. One of her first decisions in office was to remove free school milk for children, all to save £4m. To me that sums up her ' determination' as that of a ruthless tyrant.

Pair that will excessive tax breaks for high earners and vast unemployment for working class she helped cement a philosophy of individual materialism which is still with us. Never has the rich/poor divide been so greatly accelerated than under her tenure. I don't see how anyone from a working class background can respect that.

 

[Ban-jani]

Thatcher's policy on Poll tax was not just a mistake. It was a complete disregard for both Scotland and working class people in general. You may also say this was the beginning of the end of the United Kingdom as it sparked the independence movement. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you how damaging that will be.

To also claim that she was responsible for single handedly reforming the UK economy from Industrial era industries to modern industry is quite naive. For starters, Denis Healy had already implemented a number of policy innovations prior to her taking office and had introduced monetary targets and cash limits for Whitehall departments to move the UK away from its stagnant position in European economics. Also, these industries were industrial era industries and were on their way out anyway. With time, new industries develop worldwide, so claiming she embraced them, I think, is incorrect.

Primarily because she had the full prospective earning from North Sea oil at her disposal to kick start a new economic era. Which has been entirely squandered. Norway finds itself with a 2 trillion trust fund. Does Scotland? Does it fuck. The tax breaks provided to oil companies over these years have been nothing short of criminal. We also were reaping the benefits of a newly formed single European market (which she helped cement - to her credit).

I also don't respect her determination. I do not find that an admirable trait. One of her first decisions in office was to remove free school milk for children, all to save £4m. To me that sums up her ' determination' as that of a ruthless tyrant.

Pair that will excessive tax breaks for high earners and vast unemployment for working class she helped cement a philosophy of individual materialism which is still with us. Never has the rich/poor divide been so greatly accelerated than under her tenure. I don't see how anyone from a working class background can respect that.

The United Kingdom won’t break up so no it wasn’t the beginning of the end.

Your second point is so wrong it’s actually difficult to counter. The argument from the left was that she radically changed industry in the UK too quickly, that’s their bug bear and now you’re saying it wasn’t actually really her?

It’s easy to pick out the odd policy over 3 terms that you disagree with but it’s not going to win any arguments. The point about the milk is it’s always said “the government should pay” etc. but people need to move away from saying the government will pay and start saying the tax payer/public, because that’s who is paying.

The latter part of your post is classic Keynes vs Hayek, we all know who’s been proven right.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Combine them all together and they’d still not be fit to clean Maggie’s shoes.

Why reinforce your point with a random comparison with three other politicians? Why compare Thatcher with Adern and AOC? One has been in the big job of a smaller nation for a relatively short time (we don't compare NZ and UK remember). The other is at the start of her political career. A more valid comparison is with Merkel.

Not fit to clean Thatchers shoes? Really? Can you explain why you think that is the case?

BTW, I am old enough to remember living through Thatchers Britain. She was a very steadfast leader but damaged more than she enriched. I lived in a mining town during the strike and pulled pints in a miners pub in the evenings. That undoubtedly influenced the way I think about her legacy.

 

[Ban-jani]

Why reinforce your point with a random comparison with three other politicians? Why compare Thatcher with Adern and AOC? One has been in the big job of a smaller nation for a relatively short time (we don't compare NZ and UK remember). The other is at the start of her political career. A more valid comparison is with Merkel.

Not fit to clean Thatchers shoes? Really? Can you explain why you think that is the case?

BTW, I am old enough to remember living through Thatchers Britain. She was a very steadfast leader but damaged more than she enriched. I lived in a mining town during the strike and pulled pints in a miners pub in the evenings. That undoubtedly influenced the way I think about her legacy.

I wasn’t the one who brought Thatcher into the debate, I was merely replying with my opinion.

Ive given my view as to why, it’s available over the last 2 pages.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I wasn’t the one who brought Thatcher into the debate, I was merely replying with my opinion.

Ive given my view as to why, it’s available over the last 2 pages.

Must have missed it then. No matter.

 

[Vicious111]

The United Kingdom won’t break up so no it wasn’t the beginning of the end.

Your second point is so wrong it’s actually difficult to counter. The argument from the left was that she radically changed industry in the UK too quickly, that’s their bug bear and now you’re saying it wasn’t actually really her?

It’s easy to pick out the odd policy over 3 terms that you disagree with but it’s not going to win any arguments. The point about the milk is it’s always said “the government should pay” etc. but people need to move away from saying the government will pay and start saying the tax payer/public, because that’s who is paying.

The latter part of your post is classic Keynes vs Hayek, we all know who’s been proven right.

What a poor response.

The UK will be separated in the next 5 years. The Brexit shambles has sealed the deal to that one. Once Scotland, and it will go, Wales will follow suit. But that's a discussion for another thread.

That in itself is enough to put your rather abysmal comparison in the grave. Maybe not a stake through its heart and garlic round its neck, however.