Ali v Tyson

Ancient Citizen said:
Ali's first fight against Sonny Liston was rigged, the second one was iffy as well.
Plus he, (via his corner) cheated, after he got snotted by Henry Cooper.
Rocky Marciano was the greatest ever heavyweight, I don't think there's much
to choose between Ali and Tyson.
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A lot of Ali's fights were iffy. The mob used to regularly make huge sums out of his fights. His fight against Foreman was also a very strange one. Foreman didn't feel right on the day of the fight and afterwards claimed to have been drugged. The fact Ali rope-a-doped the whole fight against a man who recently had literally lifted Joe Frazier off his feet with a punch beggars belief. Frazier beat Ali in their first fight and he was widely seen as a "poor man's Marciano". Tyson at his absolute peak, in his early 20s before he crashed his car into a tree, would have probably beaten Marciano due to being 2 stone heavier. Both would have beaten Ali. Ali was very fast and stylish but so was David Haye. Ali wouldn't have got near WladimIr Klitschko like Haye couldn't. He would though have hammered Mr Fury, the fake Tyson! Ali was the best of his era but that's about it for me.
 
Wilf Wild 1937 said:
A lot of Ali's fights were iffy. The mob used to regularly make huge sums out of his fights. His fight against Foreman was also a very strange one. Foreman didn't feel right on the day of the fight and afterwards claimed to have been drugged. The fact Ali rope-a-doped the whole fight against a man who recently had literally lifted Joe Frazier off his feet with a punch beggars belief. Frazier beat Ali in their first fight and he was widely seen as a "poor man's Marciano". Tyson at his absolute peak, in his early 20s before he crashed his car into a tree, would have probably beaten Marciano due to being 2 stone heavier. Both would have beaten Ali. Ali was very fast and stylish but so was David Haye. Ali wouldn't have got near WladimIr Klitschko like Haye couldn't. He would though have hammered Mr Fury, the fake Tyson! Ali was the best of his era but that's about it for me.
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What does Ali's rope-a-dope against Foreman have to do with the price of fish? Ali won every round of that fight, with the most breathtaking display of counter punching the sport has ever seen, and by popular consensus only Ernie Shavers was a bigger hitter than Foreman. Tyson was a great champ, who would hit you with 3 or 4 punches before you could blink, but most of his opponents offered no resistance and were beaten before they got in the ring. Ali had the reflexes of a cat, a great chin, the best jab in the business and the hand speed of a middleweight. I think he hit Cleveland Williams 167 times in 3 rounds in one fight. Tyson would have had a puncher's chance and no more
 
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this is an endless argument ,no one will ever know, ali was so good at the time because he was lightening quick , but so was Tyson, tyson would win, sheer power and aggression, imo in his pomp the best heavyweight ever.
 
Exeter Blue I am here said:
There's nonsense and then, to sadly paraphrase Christine Hamilton, there's nonsense on stilts. What does Ali's rope-a-dope against Foreman have to do with the price of fish? Ali won every round of that fight, with the most breathtaking display of counter punching the sport has ever seen, and by popular consensus only Ernie Shavers was a bigger hitter than Foreman. Tyson was a great champ, who would hit you with 3 or 4 punches before you could blink, but most of his opponents offered no resistance and we're beaten before they got in the ring. Ali had the reflexes of a cat, a great chin, the best jab in the business and the hand speed of a middleweight. I think he hit Cleveland Williams 167 times in 3 rounds in one fight. Tyson would have had a puncher's chance and no more
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If Foreman was indeed drugged then that surely negates the achievement somewhat? Ali lost to Norton (arguably twice) who was far from an all time great. Tyson was a cut above the likes of Frazier, Norton and Cooper who all caused him trouble.
 
Wilf Wild 1937 said:
If Foreman was indeed drugged then that surely negates the achievement somewhat? Ali lost to Norton (arguably twice) who was far from an all time great. Tyson was a cut above the likes of Frazier, Norton and Cooper who all caused him trouble.
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Caused him trouble, but didn't beat him, and in the case of Norton, which I concede Ali was lucky to win, Ali sustained a broken jaw in the 2nd round and still came out on top. Frazier beat Ali in 71 when Ali hadn't fought for 4 years (bar one warm up fight), and Ali avenged that defeat emphatically twice. We disagree on whether Tyson was a better boxer than Frazier, but that notwithstanding I still say Ali at his peak would have beaten Tyson reasonably comfortably. And I would contend the Foreman drugging allegation is just a loser's lament, backed up by chuff all
 
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