Ali v Tyson

[BufordUSABlue]

Ali by a country mile for me..

Far too intelligent a fighter for the bar room brawler.

 

[Ban-jani]

Ali wouldn't have beaten Klitschko?

Have I just read that?

Yep I can't quite believe I've just read that too.

Has to be a tongue in cheek remark.

Anyway in relation to the original question... Boxing has a lot to do with style of fighters, Foreman leathered Frazier, who had previously beaten Ali, only to then lose to Ali himself. I know circumstance had a lot to do with it, considering Ali only just coming back after 4 years but I think certain styles of boxers can contrast and make it difficult to predict, only sometimes though.

Overall I think Ali beating Foreman and then Frazer twice proved he was the most adaptable. The match against Foreman was one of the greatest boxing performances of all time, if not the greatest.

 

[Wilf Wild 1937]

Caused him trouble, but didn't beat him, and in the case of Norton, which I concede Ali was lucky to win, Ali sustained a broken jaw in the 2nd round and still came out on top. Frazier beat Ali in 71 when Ali hadn't fought for 4 years (bar one warm up fight), and Ali avenged that defeat emphatically twice. We disagree on whether Tyson was a better boxer than Frazier, but that notwithstanding I still say Ali at his peak would have beaten Tyson reasonably comfortably. And I would contend the Foreman drugging allegation is just a loser's lament, backed up by chuff all

Both Norton and Frazier beat Ali in their first fights. Ali fought Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena prior to the first Frazier fight. He fought well in both fights but the Bonavena fight went to the 15th round before he won on a TKO. He wasn't ring rusty before he fought Frazier.

 

[Wilf Wild 1937]

Yep I can't quite believe I've just read that too.

Has to be a tongue in cheek remark.

No joke. David Haye was a similar size and style to Ali and didn't come close to hurting Klitschko. Klitschko is the second longest reigning champion ever. Only Joe Louis has reigned longer.

 

[Exeter Blue I am here]

Both Norton and Frazier beat Ali in their first fights. Ali fought Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena prior to the first Frazier fight. He fought well in both fights but the Bonavena fight went to the 15th round before he won on a TKO. He wasn't ring rusty before he fought Frazier.

I never said Ali was infallible. He lost fights, as did Tyson. However, whilst Tyson made a name for himself (and I say this as someone who rates Tyson in the top 5 heavyweights of all time) knocking over Pinklon Thomas Nd Marvin Spinks, Ali fought and beat fighters of an entirely different calibre. Bar Evander Holyfield, who he lost to, who did Tyson fight even remotely close to the calibre of Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Holmes or Shavers?

 

[Fat Chance]

A lot of Ali's fights were iffy. The mob used to regularly make huge sums out of his fights. His fight against Foreman was also a very strange one. Foreman didn't feel right on the day of the fight and afterwards claimed to have been drugged. The fact Ali rope-a-doped the whole fight against a man who recently had literally lifted Joe Frazier off his feet with a punch beggars belief. Frazier beat Ali in their first fight and he was widely seen as a "poor man's Marciano". Tyson at his absolute peak, in his early 20s before he crashed his car into a tree, would have probably beaten Marciano due to being 2 stone heavier. Both would have beaten Ali. Ali was very fast and stylish but so was David Haye. Ali wouldn't have got near WladimIr Klitschko like Haye couldn't. He would though have hammered Mr Fury, the fake Tyson! Ali was the best of his era but that's about it for me.

Any lnks to George claiming to be drugged?

Leaning back on the ropes negates Foremans infamous uppercut, sure he ws powerful with other shots but not powrful enough to crease Clay. George did say he poleaxed clay with a punch into the centre of his chest after ueing the ropes to catapult him towards him and that he had seen clay fold around the punch which he described 'dehumanising'...he said clay grabbed him and whispered in hs ear 'that the best you got George'

It's worth remembering that Clay nailed both the tysons of his day (liston/george) with two different styles, probably unqiue in heavyweight hisory.

Marciano..its also worth remembering that his big fight undefeted number aint title fights, his title fights stood at 5, with the youngest of them 5 being around 36yr old (the youngest), after Louis reignig for so long he (white Rocky) wa'nt going to be facing a good black prospect.

 

[yankcitizen76]

Ali in his prime I think totally beats Tyson. He had the speed to stay away and the array of punches to give Tyson problems. "Later years" Ali I think it's more a toss up but I got still got to go with Ali. Ali could take a punch like few others in boxing history.

Of all the heavyweights that people seem to underrate now, I don't understand why people misjudge Rocky Marciano. He was ungainly and slow, but he could knock you out in the 1st or the 17th. It didn't matter. He was one of the best conditioned boxers of all time. My college professor used to tell me he saw Marciano knock a guy through the ropes in his early career. He wouldnt have stood up to Frazier or decisioned Ali, but he was still a top ten heavy weight.

 

[kas_tippler]

Bugner any day of the week.

 

[Fat Chance]

Bizarrely prior (yr earlier) to the Douglas fight Joanna lumley of all people (think wogan fell ill or suchlike) asked clay how he thought he would go on v the baddest man on the planet, he described the douglas fight to a t, saying it would be time to start planting your feet around r8, would'nt go past ten.

Tyson ducked George early in his 2nd coming, then ducked Lenny paying the camp 4mill

 

[Fat Chance]

From memory i think Evander entered the first tyson fight weighing 14 stone 7lb

Teddy atlas putting his own problems with bad man behind him...told of an incident at the catskills when Evander (light heavy) stayed there and Tyson was running for the title....he said ''if he (EH) goes heavy we're in trouble'...he was asked about the incident in depth but would only remark 'He's (Eva) got his number'.