Anyone else concerned?

[MojoRisin]

That price was over paying wages. Not over paying transfer fees. Transfer fees generally aren't where big clubs add greatly to their bottom line, it's the crazy wages which certain types of players bring with them. To use an example, I suspect that Fernandinho's wages are closer to Garcia's than Yaya's. In terms of impact on the team, he'll be closer to Yaya than Garcia. That type of business we probably couldn't do three years ago because of where we were in our development, but we can do it now.

Why did we then refuse to "overpay" for Isco? or RVP?

 

[Bodicoteblue]

Thank you mr. Shears for a bit of rationality and perspective .
Some people should really take a holiday and lie on a beach somewhere until the convulsions stop.

 

[mancityscot]

not concerned, more intrigued as to who we will replace tevez with

 

[andrewmswift]

I tend to be closer to AustinBlue's thoughts than those on the 'concerned' side so to speak. There seems to be a tendency amongst supporters in general (not just City supporters) to look at players you don't own as some sort of all encompassing panacea for whatever's gone wrong the season before. It was very easy as the season wore on in the last six months for example, to blame our failure to sign RVP, just as I know plenty of rags who said in the last six months of the 11/12 season that had they bought a top class central midfield player they wouldn't have dropped the points which led to City winning the title.

I'm not saying that top players won't improve your team, but you have to look at your starting point too and consider the dare I say it, more holistic ways of improving both performances and results. Is there more to be gotten out of Samir Nasri for example, or Edin Dzeko ? Will young players like Nastasic get better year on year. Do we have the right environment, right encouragement, and right coaching, to do that and get the players to improve both individually and as a unit.

Many people couldn't understand why there was a vocal minority who weren't happy with the season just gone, which had nothing to do with transfers. This was due to the fact that it was apparent to many outside of the club that the players weren't going in the right direction. The team wasn't going in the right direction. But then you look at where we finished in the league, in the FA Cup, and it gives you an idea of what our players can achieve whilst underperforming (dramatically in some cases).

We have a starting point which is immense. Both in terms of what the squad has within it, and what it has already achieved. So far this summer we've identified two absolute weaknesses within the squad and addressed them quickly, quietly and with little fuss. Navas and Fernandinho may not satisfy the headline writers, but then it's no exaggeration to say that Yaya and Silva didn't when they joined either. In fact there's many parallels in terms of the negativity around Yaya's fee and Fernandinho's fee, and also around Silva's apparent substitute role for Spain, and Navas's. I've little doubt that the new players will have similar impact to the ones people complained about two or three years ago.

There's something else which is clearly lost on a few people, and that is that Sheikh Mansour and Khaldoun made it clear from day dot that City although it was going to be successful, was going to be a club which was sustainable. Sincerely I believe that our previous transfer policy was never ever going to allow for that to happen. In many respects I think they did the right thing by splurging to catch up with the elite, and also to mark City out as player within the world game, but it came at a price which needs to be redressed now. That price was over paying wages. Not over paying transfer fees. Transfer fees generally aren't where big clubs add greatly to their bottom line, it's the crazy wages which certain types of players bring with them. To use an example, I suspect that Fernandinho's wages are closer to Garcia's than Yaya's. In terms of impact on the team, he'll be closer to Yaya than Garcia. That type of business we probably couldn't do three years ago because of where we were in our development, but we can do it now.

So for me, it's not about being concerned or not concerned. It's about reshaping the playing squad so that it's one which is more value for money than expensive flops, and to do this there will be some pain involved, including losing players like Balo and Tevez who ultimately, top players though they are, probably couldn't be justified on the wage bill going into this next phase of our development. People scoffed at Ferran when he first suggested at Barcelona that a players' wages should be to some degree linked to achievements. That is now becoming the norm within football. Does anybody really see Joorabchian and Mino, the two preeminent money before everything agents in football sitting down with Ferran to thrash out a deal like that? No chance, and that's probably why both players are gone.

great post

 

[simon23]

I tend to be closer to AustinBlue's thoughts than those on the 'concerned' side so to speak. There seems to be a tendency amongst supporters in general (not just City supporters) to look at players you don't own as some sort of all encompassing panacea for whatever's gone wrong the season before. It was very easy as the season wore on in the last six months for example, to blame our failure to sign RVP, just as I know plenty of rags who said in the last six months of the 11/12 season that had they bought a top class central midfield player they wouldn't have dropped the points which led to City winning the title.

I'm not saying that top players won't improve your team, but you have to look at your starting point too and consider the dare I say it, more holistic ways of improving both performances and results. Is there more to be gotten out of Samir Nasri for example, or Edin Dzeko ? Will young players like Nastasic get better year on year. Do we have the right environment, right encouragement, and right coaching, to do that and get the players to improve both individually and as a unit.

Many people couldn't understand why there was a vocal minority who weren't happy with the season just gone, which had nothing to do with transfers. This was due to the fact that it was apparent to many outside of the club that the players weren't going in the right direction. The team wasn't going in the right direction. But then you look at where we finished in the league, in the FA Cup, and it gives you an idea of what our players can achieve whilst underperforming (dramatically in some cases).

We have a starting point which is immense. Both in terms of what the squad has within it, and what it has already achieved. So far this summer we've identified two absolute weaknesses within the squad and addressed them quickly, quietly and with little fuss. Navas and Fernandinho may not satisfy the headline writers, but then it's no exaggeration to say that Yaya and Silva didn't when they joined either. In fact there's many parallels in terms of the negativity around Yaya's fee and Fernandinho's fee, and also around Silva's apparent substitute role for Spain, and Navas's. I've little doubt that the new players will have similar impact to the ones people complained about two or three years ago.

There's something else which is clearly lost on a few people, and that is that Sheikh Mansour and Khaldoun made it clear from day dot that City although it was going to be successful, was going to be a club which was sustainable. Sincerely I believe that our previous transfer policy was never ever going to allow for that to happen. In many respects I think they did the right thing by splurging to catch up with the elite, and also to mark City out as player within the world game, but it came at a price which needs to be redressed now. That price was over paying wages. Not over paying transfer fees. Transfer fees generally aren't where big clubs add greatly to their bottom line, it's the crazy wages which certain types of players bring with them. To use an example, I suspect that Fernandinho's wages are closer to Garcia's than Yaya's. In terms of impact on the team, he'll be closer to Yaya than Garcia. That type of business we probably couldn't do three years ago because of where we were in our development, but we can do it now.

So for me, it's not about being concerned or not concerned. It's about reshaping the playing squad so that it's one which is more value for money than expensive flops, and to do this there will be some pain involved, including losing players like Balo and Tevez who ultimately, top players though they are, probably couldn't be justified on the wage bill going into this next phase of our development. People scoffed at Ferran when he first suggested at Barcelona that a players' wages should be to some degree linked to achievements. That is now becoming the norm within football. Does anybody really see Joorabchian and Mino, the two preeminent money before everything agents in football sitting down with Ferran to thrash out a deal like that? No chance, and that's probably why both players are gone.

Whilst I pretty much agree with everything you say here Billy, there are a couple of things that whilst I dont disagree with you on, they remain dubious at present

You are presuming that for instance MP will be able to get better out of all the players while RM didnt....Im not turning this into a MP vs RM thing but I will say that a lot of players improved in my opinion under RM. I hope you are right in saying the same about MP and I fully agree with the fact also that RM didnt get the best out of nasri in particualr...Im not so confident on Dzeko though and this is where I think unless we do make a quality signing where money will have to be spent we may then struggle (esp if we are unlucky and Kun gets injured again)...and my main concern as stated earlier is that our choices are limited in terms of bringing someone in that is going to have that immediate impact and sustain the level of quality we have had in the past 2-3 yrs..(cavani and isco are pretty much no goers and the rest just wouldnt cut it above what we have had....regardless of playing style and certainly not with the playing style that seems to be suggested (unless we can get David Villa - yet surely he will want very high wages and then that take us into tevez territory)..plus he is a short term solution though may allow us time to develop a youngster or 2.

Also regarding the money. If tevez didnt want to stay then fair enough, but at present no one knows if he did or didnt. What is certain is that he has taken a wage cut to go to Juve so why couldnt we convince him to stay here with a restructuring of his wages/benefits?

If it was purely down to perceived playing style then its even more a ridiculous move as Tevez has proven under Mancini that he can change his style of play to suit...so he could have done it again if required

If tevez just wanted out then my points are all completely redundant but Ive not seen anything to suggest that yet

 

[decmancity]

On the 17th August at 3pm I see the squad of players we have now out on pitch I will be concerned. As it is the 27th June.

NO.

 

[Disco Derek]

I tend to be closer to AustinBlue's thoughts than those on the 'concerned' side so to speak. There seems to be a tendency amongst supporters in general (not just City supporters) to look at players you don't own as some sort of all encompassing panacea for whatever's gone wrong the season before. It was very easy as the season wore on in the last six months for example, to blame our failure to sign RVP, just as I know plenty of rags who said in the last six months of the 11/12 season that had they bought a top class central midfield player they wouldn't have dropped the points which led to City winning the title.

I'm not saying that top players won't improve your team, but you have to look at your starting point too and consider the dare I say it, more holistic ways of improving both performances and results. Is there more to be gotten out of Samir Nasri for example, or Edin Dzeko ? Will young players like Nastasic get better year on year. Do we have the right environment, right encouragement, and right coaching, to do that and get the players to improve both individually and as a unit.
Many people couldn't understand why there was a vocal minority who weren't happy with the season just gone, which had nothing to do with transfers. This was due to the fact that it was apparent to many outside of the club that the players weren't going in the right direction. The team wasn't going in the right direction. But then you look at where we finished in the league, in the FA Cup, and it gives you an idea of what our players can achieve whilst underperforming (dramatically in some cases).

We have a starting point which is immense. Both in terms of what the squad has within it, and what it has already achieved. So far this summer we've identified two absolute weaknesses within the squad and addressed them quickly, quietly and with little fuss. Navas and Fernandinho may not satisfy the headline writers, but then it's no exaggeration to say that Yaya and Silva didn't when they joined either. In fact there's many parallels in terms of the negativity around Yaya's fee and Fernandinho's fee, and also around Silva's apparent substitute role for Spain, and Navas's. I've little doubt that the new players will have similar impact to the ones people complained about two or three years ago.

There's something else which is clearly lost on a few people, and that is that Sheikh Mansour and Khaldoun made it clear from day dot that City although it was going to be successful, was going to be a club which was sustainable. Sincerely I believe that our previous transfer policy was never ever going to allow for that to happen. In many respects I think they did the right thing by splurging to catch up with the elite, and also to mark City out as player within the world game, but it came at a price which needs to be redressed now. That price was over paying wages. Not over paying transfer fees. Transfer fees generally aren't where big clubs add greatly to their bottom line, it's the crazy wages which certain types of players bring with them. To use an example, I suspect that Fernandinho's wages are closer to Garcia's than Yaya's. In terms of impact on the team, he'll be closer to Yaya than Garcia. That type of business we probably couldn't do three years ago because of where we were in our development, but we can do it now.

So for me, it's not about being concerned or not concerned. It's about reshaping the playing squad so that it's one which is more value for money than expensive flops, and to do this there will be some pain involved, including losing players like Balo and Tevez who ultimately, top players though they are, probably couldn't be justified on the wage bill going into this next phase of our development. People scoffed at Ferran when he first suggested at Barcelona that a players' wages should be to some degree linked to achievements. That is now becoming the norm within football. Does anybody really see Joorabchian and Mino, the two preeminent money before everything agents in football sitting down with Ferran to thrash out a deal like that? No chance, and that's probably why both players are gone.

A really sensible and measured post that I enjoyed reading, thank you.

Within it there are a few points that need to be emphasised. Firstly, it's June. There are twenty clubs around Europe chasing the same players. They all try and start their transfer planning well in advance, they're all talking about the same players to the same agents, some clubs keep their powder dry so as not to see fees and wages be driven up, but the agents know this, leak to the press to stimulate interest and make more money for themselves, oh and as a by-product of this maybe get a player a move he wants. At this time of year these are they guys in the driving seat. However in Ferran and Txiki (not forgetting Pellegrini) we've got two of the shrewdest and most experienced in the game, so we need to trust them. It's easy to get concerned and anxious by what the agents feed the press and what the press stick on the back pages to have us believe that we're close to signing or losing out on someone. Mainly it's all bollocks, and everyone who posts on here really knows that.

We will end up with a big name or two before too long. We can guess or even dream about who that will be, and that's what makes being a football fan at this time of year exciting! We need three strikers, maybe four, Pellegrini would have given his consent to Tevez leaving well before we announced him as our new manager, and he will have reviewed the replacement targets along with FS and TB and told them to get on with it. There aren't many to choose from, we'll need to pay handsomely, but perhaps not in terms of wages as has been said. Our sustainability as a club, as a business in the FFP era will be at the heart of the club's approach. The better we do, the more money we get and the more the players will get paid. Simple (ish!) That's the performance related approach that has kept Barcelona at the top, and key to surviving in this new era.

Personally I love all the debate about who we'll get, who will move on, how we'll play. It'll keep me going all summer.

But I won't be getting concerned because we have FS and TB working hard in the market and these boys are the best in the business. They've been told we have to win the Champions League within the next few years, and come very close next season. With a different managerial approach, I reckon our current squad is a striker away from doing that. Show me a big club that wouldn't pay really stupid money for Aguero, Silva, Yaya, Nasri, Nastasic, Kompany, Hart or Dzeko. Pointless even asking because we won't be selling.

I'll try and enjoy the transfer speculation, imagine how Lewandowski or Gomez or Cavani or whoever might fit in, how they'll work with the rest and how many they'll score but I won't be getting concerned because City are a big deal, and we're only at the beginning of the journey!

 

[dancity19]

I tend to be closer to AustinBlue's thoughts than those on the 'concerned' side so to speak. There seems to be a tendency amongst supporters in general (not just City supporters) to look at players you don't own as some sort of all encompassing panacea for whatever's gone wrong the season before. It was very easy as the season wore on in the last six months for example, to blame our failure to sign RVP, just as I know plenty of rags who said in the last six months of the 11/12 season that had they bought a top class central midfield player they wouldn't have dropped the points which led to City winning the title.

I'm not saying that top players won't improve your team, but you have to look at your starting point too and consider the dare I say it, more holistic ways of improving both performances and results. Is there more to be gotten out of Samir Nasri for example, or Edin Dzeko ? Will young players like Nastasic get better year on year. Do we have the right environment, right encouragement, and right coaching, to do that and get the players to improve both individually and as a unit.

Many people couldn't understand why there was a vocal minority who weren't happy with the season just gone, which had nothing to do with transfers. This was due to the fact that it was apparent to many outside of the club that the players weren't going in the right direction. The team wasn't going in the right direction. But then you look at where we finished in the league, in the FA Cup, and it gives you an idea of what our players can achieve whilst underperforming (dramatically in some cases).

We have a starting point which is immense. Both in terms of what the squad has within it, and what it has already achieved. So far this summer we've identified two absolute weaknesses within the squad and addressed them quickly, quietly and with little fuss. Navas and Fernandinho may not satisfy the headline writers, but then it's no exaggeration to say that Yaya and Silva didn't when they joined either. In fact there's many parallels in terms of the negativity around Yaya's fee and Fernandinho's fee, and also around Silva's apparent substitute role for Spain, and Navas's. I've little doubt that the new players will have similar impact to the ones people complained about two or three years ago.

There's something else which is clearly lost on a few people, and that is that Sheikh Mansour and Khaldoun made it clear from day dot that City although it was going to be successful, was going to be a club which was sustainable. Sincerely I believe that our previous transfer policy was never ever going to allow for that to happen. In many respects I think they did the right thing by splurging to catch up with the elite, and also to mark City out as player within the world game, but it came at a price which needs to be redressed now. That price was over paying wages. Not over paying transfer fees. Transfer fees generally aren't where big clubs add greatly to their bottom line, it's the crazy wages which certain types of players bring with them. To use an example, I suspect that Fernandinho's wages are closer to Garcia's than Yaya's. In terms of impact on the team, he'll be closer to Yaya than Garcia. That type of business we probably couldn't do three years ago because of where we were in our development, but we can do it now.

So for me, it's not about being concerned or not concerned. It's about reshaping the playing squad so that it's one which is more value for money than expensive flops, and to do this there will be some pain involved, including losing players like Balo and Tevez who ultimately, top players though they are, probably couldn't be justified on the wage bill going into this next phase of our development. People scoffed at Ferran when he first suggested at Barcelona that a players' wages should be to some degree linked to achievements. That is now becoming the norm within football. Does anybody really see Joorabchian and Mino, the two preeminent money before everything agents in football sitting down with Ferran to thrash out a deal like that? No chance, and that's probably why both players are gone.

That's pretty much why pellegrini should turn out to be the most important 'signing' we make all summer....

 

[Anonymous]

You are presuming that for instance MP will be able to get better out of all the players while RM didnt....Im not turning this into a MP vs RM thing but I will say that a lot of players improved in my opinion under RM. I hope you are right in saying the same about MP and I fully agree with the fact also that RM didnt get the best out of nasri in particualr...Im not so confident on Dzeko though and this is where I think unless we do make a quality signing where money will have to be spent we may then struggle (esp if we are unlucky and Kun gets injured again)...and my main concern as stated earlier is that our choices are limited in terms of bringing someone in that is going to have that immediate impact and sustain the level of quality we have had in the past 2-3 yrs..(cavani and isco are pretty much no goers and the rest just wouldnt cut it above what we have had....regardless of playing style and certainly not with the playing style that seems to be suggested (unless we can get David Villa - yet surely he will want very high wages and then that take us into tevez territory)..plus he is a short term solution though may allow us time to develop a youngster or 2.

Without as you say, wishing to turn this into a Mancini v Pellegrini thing - outside of the four metaphorical walls of the Etihad, the world of football watched as City's team deteriorated under Mancini to a point where at times they disgraced themselves. To improve upon that won't take much, and when you look at the margins we lost out on the league by, then I expect us to win the league next season, even if we sign nobody else.

Your point about quality forwards is a fair one, although it's entirely premised on the notion that Edin has peaked. If I had to make a judgment call on what is going to happen to Dzeko, and I've said this before, I suspect under Pellegrini he will flourish and turn in to the beast we expected him to be when he signed. So that would give us two world class forwards, which is enough, as I say, even if we sign no one else.

I think you also have to recognise that our goals from midfield tally was simply not good enough last season. You would expect two of Sami, Silva, and Yaya to reach double figures but none of them did.

On the subject of Tevez. "I met with Pellegrini and told him I wanted to move".

 

[ONTHERUNWITHTHAKSIN]

As far as I can see we need a CF as it stands.

We have filled what we lacked with Fernandhino and Jesus.

Look at probable starting 11
Hart
Zab
Kompany
Nasty
Clichy
Fernandhino
Yaya
Silva
Nasri
Jesus
Aguero

With a GK cover and then
Micah/Maicon
Lescott/Rekik
Kolarov/Zab
Garcia/Rodwell
Milner/Barry
Dzeko

Add to this
Lopez
Suarez
Razak
Guidetti

Then no need to be concerned.