Assisted dying

The Black Shed said:
My dad passed away last year, following a massive stroke. When it happened it was instantly game over for him, in a physical sense. Mentally I think there was something there, but not only was he paralysed but also non-verbal. I'm sure as eggs is eggs that given the choice he would have asked for a shot of the good stuff with a single malt chaser. But even if assisted dying was on the menu, where does somebody stand given their condition and inability to consent?

The bizarre thing was that once the medical teams had got a handle on his heart and blood problems, they deemed him 'fit for discharge', not in immediate danger of dying and he was dispatched out into the care home system. Bizarre considering the state he was in. Anyway, a decision was made for him, not by me or anyone in the family. There was no POA in that respect, no written wishes.
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My condolences Shed.

Forward planning for something horrible occurring. A document signed and witnessed that states someone's wishes if incapacitated.
 
stonerblue said:
My condolences Shed.

Forward planning for something horrible occurring. A document signed and witnessed that states someone's wishes if incapacitated.
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Thank you fella.

It's something we all bury our heads in the sand with. Get the will done sure, get nominated guardians for the kids and any money. But forgetting about somebody to make health decisions on behalf of one's self, that gets overlooked. Even now, after going through that, I haven't done anything about it myself! I'll just get this sorted, maybe see to that etc and get round to it in a couple of weeks.... Think it falls under power of attorney.
 
The Black Shed said:
Thank you fella.

It's something we all bury our heads in the sand with. Get the will done sure, get nominated guardians for the kids and any money. But forgetting about somebody to make health decisions on behalf of one's self, that gets overlooked. Even now, after going through that, I haven't done anything about it myself! I'll just get this sorted, maybe see to that etc and get round to it in a couple of weeks.... Think it falls under power of attorney.
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After my Mum's death my Dad has made sure to be explicit in what he wants to happen should he be in a similar situation and has it all confirmed as part of his assignment of a PoA. My Mum's biggest fear was being in pain yet there wasn't anything in place legally to avoid it. I'd personally have given her the pill myself and taken the jail time and wouldn't have regretted it one bit. There might be complexities around this that need resolving but I don't think it's anywhere near as complicated as suggested. Ask 1000 people whether they'd want to live for a few months longer but in pain or die sooner but peacefully and I'd imagine the results would lean to the latter. If that's your starting point then all the laws and duty of care for professionals should be straightforward to amend accordingly.
 
The mp's will shit the bed and abstain or vote no. I really think this is important enough to put it to the people , we are the carers of the sick in the home , outside of the nhs , we all know family and friends who are suffering so much or those who found death peaceful, we should have our voices heard

We are all going to die , cancer is one in two people and MND cases are growing , there is a lot of painful and disability conditions as well

If we cant all have a say in this, what can we talk about and decide for ourselves , it would have strict criteria and it is only an option
 
Bill published. Main points

This bill would make it legal for over-18s who are terminally ill to be given assistance to end their own life. But there are requirements:

  • They must be resident of England and Wales and be registered with a GP for at least 12 months
  • They must have the mental capacity to make the choice and be deemed to have expressed a clear, settled and informed wish, free from coercion or pressure
  • They must be expected to die within six months
  • They must make two separate declarations, witnessed and signed, about their wish to die
  • Two independent doctors must be satisfied the person is eligible - and there must be at least seven days between the doctors’ assessments
  • A High Court judge must hear from at least one of the doctors and can also question the dying person, or anyone else they consider appropriate. There must be a further 14 days after the judge has made the ruling

It’s worth noting that medical staff are very poor at predicting prognosis in the weeks or months range. End of Life care is centred on 1 core principle, to neither hasten nor delay death and this breaks that principle.

Will need to be safe guards that patients must be alone when taking the drug and no one can help them. This will ensure consent and capacity at point of opting for death.

I also note the absence of legally allowing staff the right to refuse to provide the patient with the fatal medication in the above - even if self administered - that should be baked in to the final bill if it gets that far. No one has the right to demand another human help them kill themselves.
 
metalblue said:
Bill published. Main points

This bill would make it legal for over-18s who are terminally ill to be given assistance to end their own life. But there are requirements:

  • They must be resident of England and Wales and be registered with a GP for at least 12 months
  • They must have the mental capacity to make the choice and be deemed to have expressed a clear, settled and informed wish, free from coercion or pressure
  • They must be expected to die within six months
  • They must make two separate declarations, witnessed and signed, about their wish to die
  • Two independent doctors must be satisfied the person is eligible - and there must be at least seven days between the doctors’ assessments
  • A High Court judge must hear from at least one of the doctors and can also question the dying person, or anyone else they consider appropriate. There must be a further 14 days after the judge has made the ruling

It’s worth noting that medical staff are very poor at predicting prognosis in the weeks or months range. End of Life care is centred on 1 core principle, to neither hasten nor delay death and this breaks that principle.

Will need to be safe guards that patients must be alone when taking the drug and no one can help them. This will ensure consent and capacity at point of opting for death.

I also note the absence of legally allowing staff the right to refuse to provide the patient with the fatal medication in the above - even if self administered - that should be baked in to the final bill if it gets that far. No one has the right to demand another human help them kill themselves.
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It's shit, and from what i can see will do nothing for people who know what's coming due to their long term illness.
Why should they be alone?
I agree with your point about staff.
Nobody should have the right to deny another human their choice to end their life.
 
metalblue said:
Bill published. Main points

This bill would make it legal for over-18s who are terminally ill to be given assistance to end their own life. But there are requirements:

  • They must be resident of England and Wales and be registered with a GP for at least 12 months
  • They must have the mental capacity to make the choice and be deemed to have expressed a clear, settled and informed wish, free from coercion or pressure
  • They must be expected to die within six months
  • They must make two separate declarations, witnessed and signed, about their wish to die
  • Two independent doctors must be satisfied the person is eligible - and there must be at least seven days between the doctors’ assessments
  • A High Court judge must hear from at least one of the doctors and can also question the dying person, or anyone else they consider appropriate. There must be a further 14 days after the judge has made the ruling

It’s worth noting that medical staff are very poor at predicting prognosis in the weeks or months range. End of Life care is centred on 1 core principle, to neither hasten nor delay death and this breaks that principle.

Will need to be safe guards that patients must be alone when taking the drug and no one can help them. This will ensure consent and capacity at point of opting for death.

I also note the absence of legally allowing staff the right to refuse to provide the patient with the fatal medication in the above - even if self administered - that should be baked in to the final bill if it gets that far. No one has the right to demand another human help them kill themselves.
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The main issue for me is the timescales. It's very hard to determine accurately how long someone has got left and this could open a whole can of worms around that. Similarly, how exactly in this modern age are you going to get approval from two independent doctors and then a High Court judge? It's probably going to take 12 months to get that in place!
 
I can see this being abused, even with the safeguards. A close relative died of MND a few years ago, it was very hard for him and his wife and family and and all who knew him, but he told his wife through his electronic voice (which was actually his son who painstakingly voiced as many words as his Dad was likely to use, so his Dad could communicate with some clever technology) a few days before he passed away “I don’t want to die yet”. Others may feel differently, but we all know people react very differently. I fear that a lot of new MPs from all parties lack the experience to get their constituents’ views before November 29th.
 
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