Back On The Chain Gang

[Saddleworth2]

And hard labour, up at 7 etc will reinforce that sense of belonging. Them against society, you are in effect creating an army, with its own rules and values which will be alien to the rest of society.

If you want people to respect our society, you need to give them a stake in that society not create a parallel society with its own value system.

We lock up too many people, elsewhere in Europe they do the opposite and it works. Trouble is we don’t want it to work. We just want to punish and make them suffer and no matter how many times we get told it won’t work we will just scream and rant and demand tougher and harsher conditions because it makes us feel better. It’s an emotional based system, not a rational one.

Is it emotional or are our current societal values easier for those that are pulling the strings to make more and more money?

 

[BobKowalski]

Is it emotional or are our current societal values easier for those that are pulling the strings to make more and more money?

You will always make more money appealing to emotion than reason. Farage is an excellent example of the emotional grifter.

 

[Marklr]

Its not really about lack of government (our taxes) money. Its far more about the priorities and values that drive the spending.

If our society is producing the crime rate that it is, is that the fault of the individual criminals or of the society which produces them? Are prisons for punishment or rehabilitation? I agree that you cant compare Norway to the UK. Our societal values are very different. Norway believes that criminals can be rehabilitated, the homeless can be rehoused and that it is better to spend tax money on initiatives that support those objectives. There is much less social inequality in Norway than the UK and they are regularly towards the top of the various wellbeing indices.

We have a government that are exacerbating social inequality in the UK our crime rate will continue to be a real issue, as will child poverty, homelessness, and all the other societal ills than impact us.These problems are addressed by red meat politics and a right wing press. '
Criminals? Bang em up and throw away the key'
'Immigrants? Send em back to where they came'
'the homeless? Get em off our streets to anywhere we cant see them'
'Food poverty? set up more food banks and get em to queue.

Time to fundamentally reset our values I think.

It might be social injustices that have lead to our current crime culture...but it's not exclusive. Kids brought up in some areas see crime culture as NORMAL. It's a way of life for some people that AREN'T poverty stricken. That's something that has been growing for many years and will be a tough issue to change.
I WISH we had the Scandinavian life!

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Be careful, you are close to saying you want the total collapse of the Capitalist system.

Marx and his work on surplus value explains it all, but remember being a Marxist is naughty, it makes you an insurgent, a commie, a red under the bed, a nasty lefty etc etc.

A mobilised radical leftist ... maybe Antifa

 

[Saddleworth2]

It might be social injustices that have lead to our current crime culture...but it's not exclusive. Kids brought up in some areas see crime culture as NORMAL. It's a way of life for some people that AREN'T poverty stricken. That's something that has been growing for many years and will be a tough issue to change.
I WISH we had the Scandinavian life!

Me too mate. No chance until we take a good hard look at ourselves and demand better bloody politics and politicians That will implement policies that support a descent and fair society.

 

[Marklr]

Me too mate. No chance until we take a good hard look at ourselves and demand better bloody politics and politicians That will implement policies that support a descent and fair society.

We're too densely populated. It's easier to manage problems in Scandinavian countries than the more heavily populated European countries, i suppose.

 

[Saddleworth2]

We're too densely populated. It's easier to manage problems in Scandinavian countries than the more heavily populated European countries, i suppose.

More difficult but not impossible. At present we don’t even try. The Scottish government have some reasonable policies but let’s see how many are implemented.

 

[BobKowalski]

We're too densely populated. It's easier to manage problems in Scandinavian countries than the more heavily populated European countries, i suppose.

Netherlands has twice our population density. Last time I checked it has closed over twenty prisons due to lack of use.

There is a different way. It’s just that we are unable to discuss it.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Is that what it would do, bring total collapse of the capitalist system simply by paying a living wage. It smacks in the face of common decency by underpaying a workforce in order to massage the books. Again I have no idea why governments insist on adopting this mantra as the cost to the taxpayer via top up benefits must be immense. If you pay a work force a living wage then you would naturally increase output and quality of workmanship as opposed to lethargy apathy and the dreadfully piss poor service we see before us today.

I don't think the commie Red Under The Bed Brigade or the Marxist Movements have anything to offer otherwise they would have acheived the heady height's of office already. I think it's just reactionary politics from a minority and although it sounds really good to go it just never seems to catch on.

I am not heavily into politics or even profess to have an understanding of the genre at your level so instead I adopt the Mazzerelli Swiss Cheese Mantra by voting for any party that appeals to my own sense of ideal come election time.

Wasn't that young urban guerilla "Wolfie" Smith, from Tooting a Marxist who constantly spent every episode emulating his hero Che Guevara.

No ... the collapse of the capitalist system comes when those that produce can no longer afford to purchase the things that they produce. .... we are close to that now. The last throw of the dice for the Capitalists was the credit card (to which many around the world are now indebted








marx was not a communist ...despite what the Tories say.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

It might be social injustices that have lead to our current crime culture...but it's not exclusive. Kids brought up in some areas see crime culture as NORMAL. It's a way of life for some people that AREN'T poverty stricken. That's something that has been growing for many years and will be a tough issue to change.
I WISH we had the Scandinavian life!

You could .... but that would mean voting Labour ....