Ban the Grand National?

[TCIB]

An absolute pathetic thread. Horses are bred to race if there was no horse racing there would be no horses.
A real shame horse's died today and it is a tragedy, fingers crossed no more ever do.

Wtf are you on about lololol.
You say there would be NO horses if not for horse racing, my lord.

Do you really believe this ?

 

[mancitygaz]

The footballer has taken a concious decision to play.

The horse makes a concious decision to jump. Or not as the case may be.

No they do not, they are reacting to the rider tightening his legs around the horse tighter and a higher frequency of being cropped.
That added to the fact his head is being controlled by the rider and the years of being trained to do exactly as the rider instructs make a race horse a slave essentially.

That is not a concious decision. It is called coercion and is as far away from a free and concious choice as it gets really.

Your wrong mate.

As someone who claims to have experience with horses you surprise me.

You should know jump horses are a different breed altogether than flat horses,

Different everything. Too many to mention.

Strong willed doesn't do them justice, as I have said, if they don't want to jump they wont and it is natural for them because that's the one and only reason they are bred.

 

[1.618034]

I didn't watch it today especially after the graphic scenes last year along with my own shit... I think the modern (HD)TV coverage adds a new dimension to the spectacle and it's not for the faint hearted. It's great sport but don't start getting attached to any of those lovely gee-gees.

I'm not for banning it as, like the OP says, the people involved will be the most affected by any deaths or injuries and if the horses didn't want to do it, they wouldn't. Plus the jockeys risk life and limb too just like racing drivers and bike racers. But that's what makes it...

But maybe there should be a general warning given beforehand, esp to any kids watching it for the 1st time, that it's probable that at least one horse will be dead at the end.

 

[ancoats]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3GM0GM4fW4[/youtube]

 

[BlueMo']

An absolute pathetic thread. Horses are bred to race if there was no horse racing there would be no horses.
A real shame horse's died today and it is a tragedy, fingers crossed no more ever do.

Wtf are you on about lololol.
You say there would be NO horses if not for horse racing, my lord.

Do you really believe this ?

I think he means there would be no race horses.
These are a different breed to the horses that come around
with the rag and bone man.

 

[TCIB]

The horse makes a concious decision to jump. Or not as the case may be.

No they do not, they are reacting to the rider tightening his legs around the horse tighter and a higher frequency of being cropped.
That added to the fact his head is being controlled by the rider and the years of being trained to do exactly as the rider instructs make a race horse a slave essentially.

That is not a concious decision. It is called coercion and is as far away from a free and concious choice as it gets really.

Your wrong mate.

As someone who claims to have experience with horses you surprise me.

You should know jump horses are a different breed altogether than flat horses,

Different everything. Too many to mention.

Strong willed doesn't do them justice, as I have said, if they don't want to jump they wont and it is natural for them because that's the one and only reason they are bred.

A trained horse will not jump for many reasons.
First you have to prepare for the jump at least 3 lengths prior to prepare the horse.
This very fact you need to ready the horse kind of goes against what your saying. If you do not prep the horse correct it will not jump, and that is a trained horse as you put it bred to jump.
They are trusting you blindly to take care of them, in exactly the same way as when i would take my arab onto middlewood way.
I needed to go down some steep steps and the horse had a natural aversion to them but he trusted me beyond his own instincts.

The slight difference in breeding does not take away thousands of years of instinct. Horses no matter what breed do not like to jump.
Some have been bred to have better body dynamics to cope but thats as far as it goes.

Ask a trainer they will tell you the same thing.

-- Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:50 pm --

An absolute pathetic thread. Horses are bred to race if there was no horse racing there would be no horses.
A real shame horse's died today and it is a tragedy, fingers crossed no more ever do.

Wtf are you on about lololol.
You say there would be NO horses if not for horse racing, my lord.

Do you really believe this ?

I think he means there would be no race horses.
These are a different breed to the horses that come around
with the rag and bone man.

I dearly hope so matey hehe, thing is this poster made a thread showing an alarming lack of knowledge on the matter they posted about. Scarily similar to this instance xD

The thread was about err space and all the cash we have spent on exploring it and how its been a total waste and we should have spent it on excercises in futility.

 

[another generation]

This has got me thinking about other events where horses jump, and what the differences are between those events and steeplechasing. What have we got? Showjumping, cross-country, hunting (if it still takes place). Anything else?

As I see it, the main differences are a) who rides the horse and b) the money involved. Am I right in thinking that in the three non-racing events, the rider also owns the horse? How much is at stake for a showjumper to win on their own horse, as opposed to a jump jockey to win on behalf of the owner? I can't imagine that the prizes involved in showjumping/eventing are even comparable to the money involved in racing. How much extra pressure are trainers and jockeys under, because of the money involved? Who are the racehorse owners today, compared with, say, fifty or a hundred years ago? Racing isn't the sport of kings anymore (isn't that flat racing, anyway?), but of footballers and pop stars. Finally, what makes the National different to other jump races? Is it the size of the fences, the size of the field, or both? Has the media hype and pressure of winning such a well-known race resulted in something of a monster?

Sorry for all the questions - it's just the way I think! Personally, I think they should cut the field for the National, though how they decide how many and which horses start, I don't know. Making the fences smaller will just increase the speed over the jumps, and would probably lead to more injuries.

 

[mancitygaz]

No they do not, they are reacting to the rider tightening his legs around the horse tighter and a higher frequency of being cropped.
That added to the fact his head is being controlled by the rider and the years of being trained to do exactly as the rider instructs make a race horse a slave essentially.

That is not a concious decision. It is called coercion and is as far away from a free and concious choice as it gets really.

Your wrong mate.

As someone who claims to have experience with horses you surprise me.

You should know jump horses are a different breed altogether than flat horses,

Different everything. Too many to mention.

Strong willed doesn't do them justice, as I have said, if they don't want to jump they wont and it is natural for them because that's the one and only reason they are bred.

A trained horse will not jump for many reasons.
First you have to prepare for the jump at least 3 lengths prior to prepare the horse.
This very fact you need to ready the horse kind of goes against what your saying. If you do not prep the horse correct it will not jump, and that is a trained horse as you put it bred to jump.
They are trusting you blindly to take care of them, in exactly the same way as when i would take my arab onto middlewood way.
I needed to go down some steep steps and the horse had a natural aversion to them but he trusted me beyond his own instincts.

The slight difference in breeding does not take away thousands of years of instinct. Horses no matter what breed do not like to jump.
Some have been bred to have better body dynamics to cope but thats as far as it goes.

Ask a trainer they will tell you the same thing.

-- Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:50 pm --

Wtf are you on about lololol.
You say there would be NO horses if not for horse racing, my lord.

Do you really believe this ?

I think he means there would be no race horses.
These are a different breed to the horses that come around
with the rag and bone man.

I dearly hope so matey hehe, thing is this poster made a thread showing an alarming lack of knowledge on the matter they posted about. Scarily similar to this instance xD

The thread was about err space and all the cash we have spent on exploring it and how its been a total waste and we should have spent it on excercises in futility.

Wrong pal. If the jockey approaches the fence wrong (out of stride) nine times out of ten the horse will refuse.

When a horse does fall you will usually find that it's not the jockeys fault.

 

[TCIB]

Your wrong mate.

As someone who claims to have experience with horses you surprise me.

You should know jump horses are a different breed altogether than flat horses,

Different everything. Too many to mention.

Strong willed doesn't do them justice, as I have said, if they don't want to jump they wont and it is natural for them because that's the one and only reason they are bred.

A trained horse will not jump for many reasons.
First you have to prepare for the jump at least 3 lengths prior to prepare the horse.
This very fact you need to ready the horse kind of goes against what your saying. If you do not prep the horse correct it will not jump, and that is a trained horse as you put it bred to jump.
They are trusting you blindly to take care of them, in exactly the same way as when i would take my arab onto middlewood way.
I needed to go down some steep steps and the horse had a natural aversion to them but he trusted me beyond his own instincts.

The slight difference in breeding does not take away thousands of years of instinct. Horses no matter what breed do not like to jump.
Some have been bred to have better body dynamics to cope but thats as far as it goes.

Ask a trainer they will tell you the same thing.

-- Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:50 pm --

I think he means there would be no race horses.
These are a different breed to the horses that come around
with the rag and bone man.

I dearly hope so matey hehe, thing is this poster made a thread showing an alarming lack of knowledge on the matter they posted about. Scarily similar to this instance xD

The thread was about err space and all the cash we have spent on exploring it and how its been a total waste and we should have spent it on excercises in futility.

Wrong pal. If the jockey approaches the fence wrong (out of stride) nine times out of ten the horse will refuse.

When a horse does fall you will usually find that it's not the jockeys fault.

I never mentioned blame or bad jumping so im not sure what your replying to here.
I did explain the fact you need to take extra steps to jump a gate and not just assume the horse will react to it properly, they won't.

The bottom line is horses do not like jumping, the fences are far to high and the the fact we are forcing these animals to make un-natural actions which in turn is a direct cause for them needing to be put down when it goes wrong simply for sport.

What's wrong with just having flat racing ?

 

[mancitygaz]

A trained horse will not jump for many reasons.
First you have to prepare for the jump at least 3 lengths prior to prepare the horse.
This very fact you need to ready the horse kind of goes against what your saying. If you do not prep the horse correct it will not jump, and that is a trained horse as you put it bred to jump.
They are trusting you blindly to take care of them, in exactly the same way as when i would take my arab onto middlewood way.
I needed to go down some steep steps and the horse had a natural aversion to them but he trusted me beyond his own instincts.

The slight difference in breeding does not take away thousands of years of instinct. Horses no matter what breed do not like to jump.
Some have been bred to have better body dynamics to cope but thats as far as it goes.

Ask a trainer they will tell you the same thing.

-- Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:50 pm --




I dearly hope so matey hehe, thing is this poster made a thread showing an alarming lack of knowledge on the matter they posted about. Scarily similar to this instance xD

The thread was about err space and all the cash we have spent on exploring it and how its been a total waste and we should have spent it on excercises in futility.

Wrong pal. If the jockey approaches the fence wrong (out of stride) nine times out of ten the horse will refuse.

When a horse does fall you will usually find that it's not the jockeys fault.

I never mentioned blame or bad jumping so im not sure what your replying to here.
I did explain the fact you need to take extra steps to jump a gate and not just assume the horse will react to it properly, they won't.

The bottom line is horses do not like jumping, the fences are far to high and the the fact we are forcing these animals to make un-natural actions which in turn is a direct cause for them needing to be put down when it goes wrong simply for sport.

What's wrong with just having flat racing ?

We'll have to agree to disagree. I was only really asking peoples opinion on the national.

P.s. Jump horses love to jump!
ner ner de ner ner ;-)