Basic People Management Skills

[JoeMercer'sWay]

I keep having to catch up on this thread lol.

I put the stats up a few pages ago on Hart and Shay, and they were very similar, Hart's are better because he played for a lesser team in both cases. Hart is younger, will make some mistakes but we can't keep having the habit in this country of dumping young keepers and ruining their confidence because they make a howler, because it isn't right. Casillas, Valdes, Julio Cesar, Cech, Reina, VDS all get unequivocal support and backing no matter what, if they make a mistake, so what? still in the team and they pay it back with consistant, top draw performances. Look at Robinson, look at Foster, look at Green. Ok none of them are on that level but they are now half the keepers they could be because their confidence is shot because they got hung out to dry and ridiculed and dumped because of a mistake and then they lost it all completely. The one thing I liked about the Hart mistake was that despite that only a very small minority have still held it against him, the media didn't make an issue and a lot of city fans have got on with it, I think that shows the confidence and hope people have in him and his good performances since have proved he's made of strong stuff. We can't evidently keep Shay happy, even though he's on a lovely pay packet to do very little and is still getting picked for Ireland, which is a shame but I bet there are plenty of decent keepers who'll be prepared to do a job for us.

As for Mancini, well the door is open to go and talk to him. It's a common and reasonable approach, the players are around him every day, can make that short walk to his office and talk to him. If you think about it, if he name's his team pre-match, and goes "right the 11 is Hart, Micah..etc." he will then name the subs and go onto final words, tactics etc. not stand there for an hour giving a speech to every sub as to why they haven't been picked to start, why does he have to be a nanny to grown men and give them everything they want because they want to be lazy and pampered and treated as the most important aspect of the club rather than know their place. If Shay and Ade are so willing and desperate to use their legs, arms and brains on the pitch for 90 minutes every week, then they can engage them to walk a little bit to Mancini's office. It's not a valid argument in my opinion. Mancini operates in his way and has to stick by it to gain the respect of the majority of his players, he has to be consistant and can't suddenly turn round and start giving Given and Ade what they want or pandering to them because they ask for it, because otherwise it will create turmoil in the dressing room. At the end of the day Given and Ade are meant to be professional, their attitude suggests they are anything but. If you want the answer to something, you have to ask the question, this isn't telepathic communication, it's life. Sometimes I really do wonder how much some players like the publicity and sound of their own voices over actually knuckling down and getting on with it.

At the end of the day, it's the results that matter.<br /><br />-- Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:36 pm --<br /><br />

Regarding Given and he doesnt comand his area as good as Joe or he doesnt come for crosses. Last season how many goals did we concede from a cross were Given came out and never got the ball? How many goals has Given conceded that was his fault in one way or the other? Yes you will get goals from corners but that could be from a number of reasons markers loosing the players. I cant remember Given making a huge mistake were it cost us points since he has come here.

West Ham away he palmed the ball straight to Collison and missed the header when he should have done much better. A number of times he's palmed the ball straight back to strikers rather than behind the post or out of the area, and his distribution is appalling quite a lot of the time, but you're irish so this is like trying to argue with a lion over a scrap of raw meat 2bh, it's been shown several times on here that the pro-Irish community will defend and argue Given's corner to the death basically, and it's really boring.

 

[Rammy Blue]

I keep having to catch up on this thread lol.

I put the stats up a few pages ago on Hart and Shay, and they were very similar, Hart's are better because he played for a lesser team in both cases. Hart is younger, will make some mistakes but we can't keep having the habit in this country of dumping young keepers and ruining their confidence because they make a howler, because it isn't right. Casillas, Valdes, Julio Cesar, Cech, Reina, VDS all get unequivocal support and backing no matter what, if they make a mistake, so what? still in the team and they pay it back with consistant, top draw performances. Look at Robinson, look at Foster, look at Green. Ok none of them are on that level but they are now half the keepers they could be because their confidence is shot because they got hung out to dry and ridiculed and dumped because of a mistake and then they lost it all completely. The one thing I liked about the Hart mistake was that despite that only a very small minority have still held it against him, the media didn't make an issue and a lot of city fans have got on with it, I think that shows the confidence and hope people have in him and his good performances since have proved he's made of strong stuff. We can't evidently keep Shay happy, even though he's on a lovely pay packet to do very little and is still getting picked for Ireland, which is a shame but I bet there are plenty of decent keepers who'll be prepared to do a job for us.

As for Mancini, well the door is open to go and talk to him. It's a common and reasonable approach, the players are around him every day, can make that short walk to his office and talk to him. If you think about it, if he name's his team pre-match, and goes "right the 11 is Hart, Micah..etc." he will then name the subs and go onto final words, tactics etc. not stand there for an hour giving a speech to every sub as to why they haven't been picked to start, why does he have to be a nanny to grown men and give them everything they want because they want to be lazy and pampered and treated as the most important aspect of the club rather than know their place. If Shay and Ade are so willing and desperate to use their legs, arms and brains on the pitch for 90 minutes every week, then they can engage them to walk a little bit to Mancini's office. It's not a valid argument in my opinion. Mancini operates in his way and has to stick by it to gain the respect of the majority of his players, he has to be consistant and can't suddenly turn round and start giving Given and Ade what they want or pandering to them because they ask for it, because otherwise it will create turmoil in the dressing room. At the end of the day Given and Ade are meant to be professional, their attitude suggests they are anything but. If you want the answer to something, you have to ask the question, this isn't telepathic communication, it's life. Sometimes I really do wonder how much some players like the publicity and sound of their own voices over actually knuckling down and getting on with it.

At the end of the day, it's the results that matter.

Excellent post.

 

[peacefrog]

Show me a club that doesn't have any unsettled squad players and I'll show you a liar.

My guess why the players at city who have a problem with the way Mancini operates and have preferred to air them to the press instead of Mancini's office, is because they know if they did their questions would be answered in seconds, and they know it wouldn't be what they wanted to hear. So the alternative is to do is have a rant in the press.

The media option is the hit and run option, where it's easier to say things you wouldn't have to chutzpah to say to someone's face, and can always claim you didn't say it or have been misquoted.

 

[m27]

Regarding Given and he doesnt comand his area as good as Joe or he doesnt come for crosses. Last season how many goals did we concede from a cross were Given came out and never got the ball? How many goals has Given conceded that was his fault in one way or the other? Yes you will get goals from corners but that could be from a number of reasons markers loosing the players. I cant remember Given making a huge mistake were it cost us points since he has come here.

West Ham away he palmed the ball straight to Collison and missed the header when he should have done much better. A number of times he's palmed the ball straight back to strikers rather than behind the post or out of the area, and his distribution is appalling quite a lot of the time, but you're irish so this is like trying to argue with a lion over a scrap of raw meat 2bh, it's been shown several times on here that the pro-Irish community will defend and argue Given's corner to the death basically, and it's really boring.

In addition to the ones you mention JMW, there were a fair number, the last minute winner in the cup semi at OT being one that springs to mind, where he didn't come but probably should have done.

Like I posted earlier, Leighton, he knows his weaknesses so he knows how to hide them well. It's called 'experience'.

Joe is a more complete keeper NOW and with a bit more experience will be one hell of a goalkeeper.

 

[peacefrog]

I keep having to catch up on this thread lol.

I put the stats up a few pages ago on Hart and Shay, and they were very similar, Hart's are better because he played for a lesser team in both cases. Hart is younger, will make some mistakes but we can't keep having the habit in this country of dumping young keepers and ruining their confidence because they make a howler, because it isn't right. Casillas, Valdes, Julio Cesar, Cech, Reina, VDS all get unequivocal support and backing no matter what, if they make a mistake, so what? still in the team and they pay it back with consistant, top draw performances. Look at Robinson, look at Foster, look at Green. Ok none of them are on that level but they are now half the keepers they could be because their confidence is shot because they got hung out to dry and ridiculed and dumped because of a mistake and then they lost it all completely. The one thing I liked about the Hart mistake was that despite that only a very small minority have still held it against him, the media didn't make an issue and a lot of city fans have got on with it, I think that shows the confidence and hope people have in him and his good performances since have proved he's made of strong stuff. We can't evidently keep Shay happy, even though he's on a lovely pay packet to do very little and is still getting picked for Ireland, which is a shame but I bet there are plenty of decent keepers who'll be prepared to do a job for us.

As for Mancini, well the door is open to go and talk to him. It's a common and reasonable approach, the players are around him every day, can make that short walk to his office and talk to him. If you think about it, if he name's his team pre-match, and goes "right the 11 is Hart, Micah..etc." he will then name the subs and go onto final words, tactics etc. not stand there for an hour giving a speech to every sub as to why they haven't been picked to start, why does he have to be a nanny to grown men and give them everything they want because they want to be lazy and pampered and treated as the most important aspect of the club rather than know their place. If Shay and Ade are so willing and desperate to use their legs, arms and brains on the pitch for 90 minutes every week, then they can engage them to walk a little bit to Mancini's office. It's not a valid argument in my opinion. Mancini operates in his way and has to stick by it to gain the respect of the majority of his players, he has to be consistant and can't suddenly turn round and start giving Given and Ade what they want or pandering to them because they ask for it, because otherwise it will create turmoil in the dressing room. At the end of the day Given and Ade are meant to be professional, their attitude suggests they are anything but. If you want the answer to something, you have to ask the question, this isn't telepathic communication, it's life. Sometimes I really do wonder how much some players like the publicity and sound of their own voices over actually knuckling down and getting on with it.

At the end of the day, it's the results that matter.

Good post.
Hart did have a shaky 10 minute period where he made about 3 fumbles but he got his composure back well and after that was back to his impeccable best. To me that showed a strength of character that is innate, you just can't teach.

 

[macmanson]

Having just read that Guardian piece, I fail to see what there is to criticize Mancini over.

These players all train on the same training ground as RM, they all share the carrington facilities which contain RM's office. There are a plethora of opportunities for the likes of Given or Ade to approach him and press their case, with the best one being the pitch they train on. Instead they seem to prefer to use our great British press, who of course would never pass up on a gold coated chance to add their own preferred spin on things.

Upto now Mancini has been painted as the dark and distant one, surly and even arrogant, the one who doesn't talk to his players and who refrains from engaging with them. He probably struggles more than most with the language barrier being an obvious issue but when all said and done, I repeat, he shares the same training ground with them and has an office in the building where they lunch and change everyday. If I were one of these disgruntled left out players, at the end of the day when everyone else is heading to the car park, I would be saying 'see you in a couple lads, just wanna quick word with the bossman', but no it seems the modern professional finds it easier to speed dial the local pressman instead.

I imagine after previous interviews (although this is supposition) Mancini will have asked his players not to go to the press to air any greviences. If he didn't then he is stupid and I would squarely have a go at him about that. So assuming he has and we have player(s) still going to the press why the hell should he not. It is (as someone else said) a form of a final warning.

He is quoted as saying 'to become a top team, it's going to be impossible if every few days a player does an interview saying [putting on a sad voice]: 'Oh, I'm not playing.' and he is spot on, what other top clubs players have so frequently broken ranks to the press with comments that are either blatantly critical or can be construed as being critical.

He goes on 'it's time the players here understand that the manager can choose only 11 players and if he leaves someone out it's not because he thinks Manu [Adebayor] or [Mario] Balotelli or Kolo [Touré] are not good players. They can knock on my door and I will always give them an explanation." which is exactly what I have been arguing from about page 10 of this thread. These people need to man up, I could possibly understand a players reluctance if this was that surly aggressive drunk from the swamp, but this is Mancini, he hardly comes across as Dr Evil.

This thread started of with questions being raised about Mancini's approachability, his man management etc. It seems to me that he has always been available for an explanation or a where do I stand chat but the pro's in question have decided to use a different channel to vent their frustrations probably fully in the knowledge that as long as their predicament is in the public domain their chances of forcing a move come January are better (take the Bellamy situation as a prime example). Mancini has quite rightly had enough and has decided to state as much publicly and now it seems that some of you aren't happy with that either citing that the manager shouldn't be making public statements, yet its ok for the players to. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. With his door open comment it wont be as easy for these players to claim the old "he doesn't speak to us" bollocks.

Yours, a raggish blind sheeplike Mancini follower.

Decent post overall, but it's not like the players have been the ones to instigate it in every case. In Bellamy's case, he had legitimate complaints about Mancini's training methods and how it affected him. He performed superbly under Hughes who customized his training regime in the first half of the season. Mancini comes in and scraps that and Bellamy starts to "under perform" in the 2nd half of the season as most here like to use as justification for getting rid. Does it not occur to people that maybe the change in training regime was responsible for his dip in form?

After that initial spat, everything died down until this summer. I refuse to acknowledge the petty arguments on here that he threw the game against Tottenham because he's Harry's buddy or something along that lines. That's just bitterness and not reality. Then Mancini starts to re-ignite the fued by suggesting in late July that Bellamy may not make the final 25 while on tour in the USA. He wasn't asked about Bellamy, he just volunteered the information.

Then Bellamy gets less than 75 minutes worth of game time on the preseason tour on top of being told he can speak to Wolfsburg about a move. Once he realizes that he isn't going to get into the team he goes to the press in that press conference and then everyone starts making up this story that he tried to engineer the move. The club were the ones that agreed to send him to Cardiff as they simply wanted the situation to go away. Mancini also tried to play down the row by saying he wished Craig well and that the door wasn't closed on Bellamy coming back to the club. Please tell me in there how Bellamy engineered a move?

Same thing with Ireland. Mancini comes out in the press and says that he needs to get his head right. Whether it's true or not, why the fuck as a manager would you put that out in the public domain about one of your own players? Fair enough that he doesn't rate him and wants to ship him out but why would you sabotage the player by saying something like that? As an owner I would be pissed that you've devalued one of the company's assets. Then to stick him in the reserves because he refused to be a makeweight in some deal. Then Ireland finally says something about it and Ireland's a dick for slagging the manager?

Same thing with Onuoha. Most of his criticisms were levelled at they way Mancini handled other players (Ireland and Lescott). The club then shipped him out on loan but we all know he'll never be back whether he was good enough or not.

The basic point of the argument is that the club and Mancini can't claim to be innocent victims in this game because they've used the media to "unofficially" transfer list players but then blast players for using the media to their end. As you mentioned, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[persvenality cult]

"It has to stop"

Or what, your brain will explode? Where's that prozac picture... get a grip, your despair runs away with you far to quickly.

"The only person who can stop it is the manager"

No.... cmon... think. People are responsible for their actions.

"The manager made me do it" is an absurdity.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

"The manager made me do it" is an absurdity.

If there is a problem amongst the playing staff the manager carries the can. There's nothing absurd about it.

 

[persvenality cult]

"The manager made me do it" is an absurdity.

If there is a problem amongst the playing staff the manager carries the can. There's nothing absurd about it.

Are they responsible for how they choose to address that problem?

 

[redmizzle]

Another keeper going to the press about his situation

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...szczak-hands-ultimatum-Sir-Alex-Ferguson.html

Sir Alex has poor man management skills then.