Basic People Management Skills

[Anonymous]

I think the reason he didnt let Shay go in the window gone is that Mancini isnt totally 100 % sure on Joe if he can handle the pressure. So far this season we have seen Joe do a big fuck up which you get from the younger keepers no matter how many games they have played. Joe is a experienced keeper he is not a kid anymore. I honestly think that if Joe messes up again and it costs us points again before then January window then Shay will get a run into the team. His expreience over the years you wouldnt see someone like him making a rash decision like Joe did.

There is nothing between both keepers it is just that simple. To say Shay is not as good as Joe is a piss take. People werent saying that when Given was in goal all of last season. I said it in the past about having 2 number 1 keepers that it would never work out as well but it seems that Mancini has made this decision too late. Or if Joe does mess up again it could be seen as a great decision to keep Shay on and leave Joe on the bench. Only time will tell but we cant keep both keepers as they will never be happy.

I think the reason Shay didn't go was because no one came in with enough money and/or he didn't want to take a pay cut. If you're hoping or probably praying would be more appropriate in you're case, that Shay will rise like a phoenix from Joe's flames then I fear you're in for a wasting you're time. The fact is Joe is No.1 and because he is younger only catastrophe will prevent this being the case for a very long time. Shay would be better off seeking employment elsewhere in the next window, provided its on our terms and we can find a decent understudy that will be happy to be benched without spreading all this unnecessary bad feeling around the club.

Just to play devil's advocate for one moment....should God forbid Joe drop another clanger against Chelsea which costs us points, do you think Mancini's thinking on Shay (and Joe) will alter even slightly?

 

[bluemoonmatt]

It's funny, other than the cheap jibe about making a mockery of people in this thread - I agree he is very clear bout Ade and Shay. Maybe if he'd shown that kind of clarity directly to them they wouldn't have needed to whine to the press. Just a suggestion...and I don't know for a fact that he didn't - I'm just speculating. It could well be that he has, and they've whined anyway.

Wow really, do you think that's a plausible possibility mate ;-o

 

[m27]

I think the reason Shay didn't go was because no one came in with enough money and/or he didn't want to take a pay cut. If you're hoping or probably praying would be more appropriate in you're case, that Shay will rise like a phoenix from Joe's flames then I fear you're in for a wasting you're time. The fact is Joe is No.1 and because he is younger only catastrophe will prevent this being the case for a very long time. Shay would be better off seeking employment elsewhere in the next window, provided its on our terms and we can find a decent understudy that will be happy to be benched without spreading all this unnecessary bad feeling around the club.

Just to play devil's advocate for one moment....should God forbid Joe drop another clanger against Chelsea which costs us points, do you think Mancini's thinking on Shay (and Joe) will alter even slightly?

Sorry, to butt in, but it can't can it?

If Joe is dropped when does he get back in again? It's all hypothetical I know but the defence is sounder without Given and it's no surprise really. Given knows his limitations and is good at what he does.

His experience and shot stopping is brilliant, his all round dominance of his box is not.

I'd only drop Joe if he got the Yips.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

I think the reason Shay didn't go was because no one came in with enough money and/or he didn't want to take a pay cut. If you're hoping or probably praying would be more appropriate in you're case, that Shay will rise like a phoenix from Joe's flames then I fear you're in for a wasting you're time. The fact is Joe is No.1 and because he is younger only catastrophe will prevent this being the case for a very long time. Shay would be better off seeking employment elsewhere in the next window, provided its on our terms and we can find a decent understudy that will be happy to be benched without spreading all this unnecessary bad feeling around the club.

Just to play devil's advocate for one moment....should God forbid Joe drop another clanger against Chelsea which costs us points, do you think Mancini's thinking on Shay (and Joe) will alter even slightly?

Not his long term plan no, he may give him a couple of games off, as a warning to stay concentrated for example but the way I see this is that Shay is not in RM's plans but prospective buyers are struggling to fund a move unless we facilitate it by covering some % of wages which is something I firmly believe we should not do.

Looking at the wider picture (ie we all know about Joe's dropped bollock) its worth remembering that only one other club have a sounder defence than ours. We have conceded two, one an uncharacteristic error and the other a penalty. the defence has rarely looked as water tight.

 

[Anonymous]

Just to play devil's advocate for one moment....should God forbid Joe drop another clanger against Chelsea which costs us points, do you think Mancini's thinking on Shay (and Joe) will alter even slightly?

Sorry, to butt in, but it can't can it?

If Joe is dropped when does he get back in again? It's all hypothetical I know but the defence is sounder without Given and it's no surprise really. Given knows his limitations and is good at what he does.

His experience and shot stopping is brilliant, his all round dominance of his box is not.

I'd only drop Joe if he got the Yips.

LOL...what are the yips?

I tend to agree with you - was just asking the question for the sake of discussion...

 

[m27]

Sorry, to butt in, but it can't can it?

If Joe is dropped when does he get back in again? It's all hypothetical I know but the defence is sounder without Given and it's no surprise really. Given knows his limitations and is good at what he does.

His experience and shot stopping is brilliant, his all round dominance of his box is not.

I'd only drop Joe if he got the Yips.

LOL...what are the yips?

I tend to agree with you - was just asking the question for the sake of discussion...

You don't know what the Yips are?

Common to darts players and bowlers at cricket. A complete inability to let go of the ball or dart and do their job basically. Eric Bristow got it once when a fan asked him if he ever took a breath when he throws the dart. He thought about this so much it completely fucked up his game and took ages to recover.

Yorkshire bowler Gavin Hamilton was helped off the ground in tears not that long ago after getting them.

Sorry Joe, I hope I've not jinxed you.

 

[Anonymous]

Not his long term plan no, he may give him a couple of games off, as a warning to stay concentrated for example but the way I see this is that Shay is not in RM's plans but prospective buyers are struggling to fund a move unless we facilitate it by covering some % of wages which is something I firmly believe we should not do.

I can see that being the case, although I'd be disappointed of Roberto did that. I think we need to leave Joe where he is irrespective of what mistakes he makes. He needs to feel that he owns that position.

With regard to Shay's wages/transfer fee - we bought him for 5.9 million, and he's certainly not on Adebayor wages by any stretch of the imagination. Personally I don't believe that his transfer fee or wages are or will be an issue if we choose to sell him. Well, having said that, I don't know what City value him at....but if it's around that figure I can't see it being a massively prohibitive...

-- Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:11 pm --

LOL...what are the yips?

I tend to agree with you - was just asking the question for the sake of discussion...

You don't know what the Yips are?

Common to darts players and bowlers at cricket. A complete inability to let go of the ball or dart and do their job basically. Eric Bristow got it once when a fan asked him if he ever took a breath when he throws the dart. He thought about this so much it completely fucked up his game and took ages to recover.

Yorkshire bowler Gavin Hamilton was helped off the ground in tears not that long ago after getting them.

Sorry Joe, I hope I've not jinxed you.

Hahaha....sounds like me whenever I've got a hangover!<br /><br />-- Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:12 pm --<br /><br />

the defence has rarely looked as water tight.

Funnily enough, I thought it did under Sven...maybe not as water tight, but close enough...

 

[Gelsons Dad]

It also make a mockery of those on this thread who assume to know how he is as a communicator and man manager. Very clear about shay. Very clear about Ade. And correct on both counts.

It's funny, other than the cheap jibe about making a mockery of people in this thread - I agree he is very clear bout Ade and Shay. Maybe if he'd shown that kind of clarity directly to them they wouldn't have needed to whine to the press. Just a suggestion...and I don't know for a fact that he didn't - I'm just speculating. It could well be that he has, and they've whined anyway.

A little perspective sometimes helps too. There have clearly been cases of a passing comment being over egged and some speculation being allowed to fester and grow. Read all the training reports from the last 3 weeks and tell me if Ade was injured or faking. It's all there as witnessed by real people without newspapers to sell.

It wasn't meant as a jibe. It was an observation. Of course I may just be being naive for taking what the manager says in yet another frank discussion with the press at face value. God knows I've been proved a poor judge of character many times in the past and will do again in the future, but I do find Mancini to be honest and engaging rather than the aloof silent menace that some would have him cast as.

Edited to add a little punctuation!!

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Not his long term plan no, he may give him a couple of games off, as a warning to stay concentrated for example but the way I see this is that Shay is not in RM's plans but prospective buyers are struggling to fund a move unless we facilitate it by covering some % of wages which is something I firmly believe we should not do.

I can see that being the case, although I'd be disappointed of Roberto did that. I think we need to leave Joe where he is irrespective of what mistakes he makes. He needs to feel that he owns that position.

With regard to Shay's wages/transfer fee - we bought him for 5.9 million, and he's certainly not on Adebayor wages by any stretch of the imagination. Personally I don't believe that his transfer fee or wages are or will be an issue if we choose to sell him. Well, having said that, I don't know what City value him at....but if it's around that figure I can't see it being a massively prohibitive...

No he's not but he will be getting an excellent wedge for a GK, certainly well above average. I'm making it up now but at his age if he is on say £75K at city can you see a situation where Fulham for example will pay him that or on the flipside he would be prepared to go down to £40k. To be honest I can't even see an Arsenal of this world paying him the full amount we do. If he leaves it must be his choice so we aren't seen as a soft touch by either subsidising his wages at a new club or paying him off a la Stevie Ireland. Just my view.

 

[Sky Blue]

LOL...what are the yips?

I tend to agree with you - was just asking the question for the sake of discussion...

You don't know what the Yips are?

Common to darts players and bowlers at cricket. A complete inability to let go of the ball or dart and do their job basically. Eric Bristow got it once when a fan asked him if he ever took a breath when he throws the dart. He thought about this so much it completely fucked up his game and took ages to recover.

Yorkshire bowler Gavin Hamilton was helped off the ground in tears not that long ago after getting them.

Sorry Joe, I hope I've not jinxed you.

Patsy Fagan got them when using the rest in snooker....more or less finished him.