Bellamy bust up with Marwood

[Blue2112]

I wouldn't put my faith in a players opinion of a manager because the majority of players are just about able to kick a football without somebody holding their hand, footballs been littered with player power for far too long and the only club that have resisted that happen to have been the most successful. What the fuck do any of them know about the other aspects of being a manager outside of picking a starting 11.

The sooner City decide on a manager and stamp his authority long term the better this club will become. I happen to think Mancini has performed wonders considering his mandate was to break the top 4 and in only a few months and spending almost nothing he's within a great chance of it. Of course he has made errors and yet he has barely any margin to make them in the time he has been given to succeed so all the more impresive he has us within touching distance.

I want a manger that gets the time to weed out those players that can't follow his instructions, don't pull as one together, that don't go running to newspapers with tickle tackle nothing stories, that support the club and in turn are supported by the club. I don't know if that man is Mancini, I personally think we might try and tempt Hiddink again but i'd be more than willing to give Mancini my backing if he gets the seal of approval.

 

[Anonymous]

That doesn't answer my question. If not the players, WHO????

C'mon genius, lets hear it...

I suspect some players would be quite capable of evaluating a manager while others would not be.

I would of the current squad like to know what people like Kompany, Toure, Nedum, Zabaleta and de Jong think of Mancini.

Aha! Now you're backtracking. So, if lets say, Kompany, Zabaleta, and De Jong think Mancini's not the right guy, the owners should listen?

 

[moomba]

That doesn't answer my question. If not the players, WHO????

C'mon genius, lets hear it...

Surely the admin of the club is better qualified to make a judgement. They know the contract pictures, they know what alternatives might be available (players and managers) they can look at the broader picture rather than the fact they're pissed off with training or don't like the roles they've been asked to play.

If players were the best judges, each of them would be the first on the teamsheet, none of them would be benches or dropped and we'd suit our formation to fit there own individual qualities.

Not saying we should disregard what they have to say, but in the end we've got to do what's best forvthe club, not the players. Not necessarily the same thing.

To go with your Rijkaard/ Scolari examples, results under both were poor and I would expect if we had gone backwards rather than forwards this last few months the players concerns would carry more weight. Newcastle players once thought Bobby Robson wasn't worthy of being their manager so they don't always get it right.

 

[robbieh]

I suspect some players would be quite capable of evaluating a manager while others would not be.

I would of the current squad like to know what people like Kompany, Toure, Nedum, Zabaleta and de Jong think of Mancini.

Aha! Now you're backtracking. So, if lets say, Kompany, Zabaleta, and De Jong think Mancini's not the right guy, the owners should listen?

As i said some players opinions are worth more than others. If the five I mentioned were all unhappy with Mancini then I would be concerned.

 

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't put my faith in a players opinion of a manager because the majority of players are just about able to kick a football without somebody holding their hand, footballs been littered with player power for far too long and the only club that have resisted that happen to have been the most successful. What the fuck do any of them know about the other aspects of being a manager outside of picking a starting 11.

The sooner City decide on a manager and stamp his authority long term the better this club will become. I happen to think Mancini has performed wonders considering his mandate was to break the top 4 and in only a few months and spending almost nothing he's within a great chance of it. Of course he has made errors and yet he has barely any margin to make them in the time he has been given to succeed so all the more impresive he has us within touching distance.

I want a manger that gets the time to weed out those players that can't follow his instructions, don't pull as one together, that don't go running to newspapers with tickle tackle nothing stories, that support the club and in turn are supported by the club. I don't know if that man is Mancini, I personally think we might try and tempt Hiddink again but i'd be more than willing to give Mancini my backing if he gets the seal of approval.

Josh, I admire the sentiments, but they require the RIGHT manager. The RIGHT manager won't have the issues we're having now...

 

[bizzbo]

And if the owner thinks that star players should be choosing the manager then he is a fool. I happen to think he is not and that if Tevez, Adebayor or whoever are not happy they will be leaving.

A question, which I'm sure you'll roundly ignore as it doesn't suit your preachy, holier than thou, attitude.

If your best players aren't in a position to tell you whether a manager is good or not, then who is?

if you have a settled unit that has achieving great things together, then, yes, maybe you listen to them intently. otherwise, don't make me laugh. wherever there is change, there is unhappiness. wherever people aren't making the grade, they will blame their boss. in fact, wherever there is authority, there are going to be those who are dissatisfied. wherever someone thinks they might not last under the current regime, they will move heaven and earth to persuade others that the manager has to go. can't make an omelette without breaking eggs and all that. surely no one with any experience of management, or just work in general, believes anything else.

if the manager is hitting his targets then he has all the power. who knows what mancini's targets were? if it's fourth, then with four games left it's in his hands. if it's points per game, he's surely done that much. any players who haven't done so already, have to wake up and smell the coffee. this isn't chelsea, and you are not john terry. there is at least a 50/50 shot that this guy will be there next year, so you better pull out all the stops if you want to be sure of staying.

it's so obviously the only way to approach things that only a very small minority of people would let their feelings get in the way in this situation. so it doesn't worry me, sense prevails 99 times out of a hundred, people work hard and nothing seriously untoward happens. anyone who does act up in this situation is likely to find that colleagues may well sympathise with them in private, but they will also (normally) distance themselves from any behaviour that is less than professional, or that detracts from the work the team is trying to do. people who put themselves in that situation will only survive if they are irreplaceable, or there is a lack of authority at the top.

I'd rather not think that there was any real lack of authority, that would point to a catastrophic misjudgement by those at the VERY top. perhaps the manner of mancini's appointment might encourage some who need to believe he lacks authority, but it's only a 50/50 shot at best that he will leave, so why make things worse if he stays.

I can believe that some footballers are the type to think they are irreplaceable. It's a view born out of the ego that sustains their belief in their ability. but it's not a very realistic view, in the cold light of day. and a clever manager who finds himself confronted with this situation, say, by someone who has a clear bond with the fans, may manipulate the situation so that bond is weakened.

 

[Anonymous]

That doesn't answer my question. If not the players, WHO????

C'mon genius, lets hear it...

Surely the admin of the club is better qualified to make a judgement. They know the contract pictures, they know what alternatives might be available (players and managers) they can look at the broader picture rather than the fact they're pissed off with training or don't like the roles they've been asked to play.

If players were the best judges, each of them would be the first on the teamsheet, none of them would be benches or dropped and we'd suit our formation to fit there own individual qualities.

Not saying we should disregard what they have to say, but in the end we've got to do what's best forvthe club, not the players. Not necessarily the same thing.

To go with your Rijkaard/ Scolari examples, results under both were poor and I would expect if we had gone backwards rather than forwards this last few months the players concerns would carry more weight. Newcastle players once thought Bobby Robson wasn't worthy of being their manager so they don't always get it right.

Yep, I agree with most of that.

There's too much uncertainty around the place, and that is what is allowing players to voice their displeasure at Mancini. The root cause is the lack of clarity about his position in the first place. And that I will comfortably say is a fact. The players don't know whether he's staying. If he really were going to be kept on regardless, you'd think someone would let them know...

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I wouldn't put my faith in a players opinion of a manager because the majority of players are just about able to kick a football without somebody holding their hand, footballs been littered with player power for far too long and the only club that have resisted that happen to have been the most successful. What the fuck do any of them know about the other aspects of being a manager outside of picking a starting 11.

Think that's a little unfair and a bit of a generalisation. I've read a couple of football books where the players actually had a much better idea than the manager.

One was "Only A Game?" by Eammon Dunphy. He was a senior pro at Millwall and they were in the old Div 2 and felt they had a realistic chance of promotion to Div 1. He and his fellow senior pros were critical of the manager (Benny Fenton) and his coach. They felt that training wasn't making them sharp enough or covering the right sort of skills and said so. Fenton decided to clear them out and get a load of youngsters in. Next season, they were relegated.

The other book was Big Mal and it talks in depth of his time at West Ham. Funnily enough the manager there was Ted Fenton, Benny's brother and the senior players thought he was clueless as well. They were probably right as he was prepared to let a young Bobby Moore go. Allison knew he could do better and eventually he was running the training sessions with the agreement of the other players. Fenton wisely decided to let him get on with it and they were promoted to Div 1 and went on to become a pretty successful club.

So maybe sometimes players do know what they are talking about.

 

[TheMightyQuinn]

I wouldn't put my faith in a players opinion of a manager because the majority of players are just about able to kick a football without somebody holding their hand, footballs been littered with player power for far too long and the only club that have resisted that happen to have been the most successful. What the fuck do any of them know about the other aspects of being a manager outside of picking a starting 11.

Think that's a little unfair and a bit of a generalisation. I've read a couple of football books where the players actually had a much better idea than the manager.

One was "Only A Game?" by Eammon Dunphy. He was a senior pro at Millwall and they were in the old Div 2 and felt they had a realistic chance of promotion to Div 1. He and his fellow senior pros were critical of the manager (Benny Fenton) and his coach. They felt that training wasn't making them sharp enough or covering the right sort of skills and said so. Fenton decided to clear them out and get a load of youngsters in. Next season, they were relegated.

The other book was Big Mal and it talks in depth of his time at West Ham. Funnily enough the manager there was Ted Fenton, Benny's brother and the senior players thought he was clueless as well. They were probably right as he was prepared to let a young Bobby Moore go. Allison knew he could do better and eventually he was running the training sessions with the agreement of the other players. Fenton wisely decided to let him get on with it and they were promoted to Div 1 and went on to become a pretty successful club.

So maybe sometimes players do know what they are talking about.

Sounds like a conspiracy to force the legendary Fenton brothers out of the game to me.

 

[sweep]

I wouldn't put my faith in a players opinion of a manager because the majority of players are just about able to kick a football without somebody holding their hand, footballs been littered with player power for far too long and the only club that have resisted that happen to have been the most successful. What the fuck do any of them know about the other aspects of being a manager outside of picking a starting 11.

Think that's a little unfair and a bit of a generalisation. I've read a couple of football books where the players actually had a much better idea than the manager.

One was "Only A Game?" by Eammon Dunphy. He was a senior pro at Millwall and they were in the old Div 2 and felt they had a realistic chance of promotion to Div 1. He and his fellow senior pros were critical of the manager (Benny Fenton) and his coach. They felt that training wasn't making them sharp enough or covering the right sort of skills and said so. Fenton decided to clear them out and get a load of youngsters in. Next season, they were relegated.

The other book was Big Mal and it talks in depth of his time at West Ham. Funnily enough the manager there was Ted Fenton, Benny's brother and the senior players thought he was clueless as well. They were probably right as he was prepared to let a young Bobby Moore go. Allison knew he could do better and eventually he was running the training sessions with the agreement of the other players. Fenton wisely decided to let him get on with it and they were promoted to Div 1 and went on to become a pretty successful club.

So maybe sometimes players do know what they are talking about.

Sometimes ,no doubt, but given the proportion of great players who go on to become top managers I'd say probably not that often.