The kids need a few games simply on the bench as we've being doing. Playing a part too early could put too much pressure on them. Get 6 or 7 familiarized with the match day experience this season and start gibing them minutes next year. Slowly slowly is the best approach IMO.
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Brandon Barker
- Thread starter FantasyIreland
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Neville Kneville
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Amazing that we can play Boyata at cb in these games without batting an eyelid, but people are worried Brandon Barker is too much of a risk.
We put that clown Nastasic in the team at Real Madrid, but having Barker on the wing vs Sheffield Wednesday would be a bridge too far.
We put that clown Nastasic in the team at Real Madrid, but having Barker on the wing vs Sheffield Wednesday would be a bridge too far.
I don't get what people will think will happen if we play Barker. Do we think he'll be so bad that he'll single handedly cost us the game? Or his head will explode from nerves? Or he'll cry for his mummy cos he's only 18?
Can he really be even more ineffective than 80% of the games where Adam Johnson actually started in the XI for us? And was it genuinely all that bad when we had to then sub off Adam Johnson after 60 minutes? No, cos we generally won anyway. Especially when we were against naff teams, like we have been in cup competitions recently.
I can't see any downside other than 'he might be a bit anonymous' so we sub him off for Navas after 50/60 minutes.
Most likely to happen is that we actually fucking learn something. We learn if he shys away from things or if he needs to do more work - we'll learn if he's too small (he probably isn't though, let's be honest - look at Navas, Johnson or Giggs when he made his debut or something) or we might just learn that he fucking loves it and can be an impact player even now cos he terrifies defenders because he does what no one else in our team does - he beats people, and i tell you what if you're a premier league fullback and you've spent the whole game chasing Nasri and Silva's shadows for 70 minutes the last thing you're gonna want coming on is a kid who just loves running at you. Especially one you know nowt about with electric pace. Terrifying, potentially. You just never 100% know until you try a player at a higher level what they can do.
It's a no brainer - you reward kids who are consistently excellent in the youth and reserve team with a chance cos its the only logical and sane thing to do. If you don't you eventually risk 'missing the moment' and you never quite grasp and utilise that youthful exuberance while a player still has it and their enthusiasm (naturally, as it can happen) wanes and they just don't seem quite the same. Dramatic, but it can happen.
Can he really be even more ineffective than 80% of the games where Adam Johnson actually started in the XI for us? And was it genuinely all that bad when we had to then sub off Adam Johnson after 60 minutes? No, cos we generally won anyway. Especially when we were against naff teams, like we have been in cup competitions recently.
I can't see any downside other than 'he might be a bit anonymous' so we sub him off for Navas after 50/60 minutes.
Most likely to happen is that we actually fucking learn something. We learn if he shys away from things or if he needs to do more work - we'll learn if he's too small (he probably isn't though, let's be honest - look at Navas, Johnson or Giggs when he made his debut or something) or we might just learn that he fucking loves it and can be an impact player even now cos he terrifies defenders because he does what no one else in our team does - he beats people, and i tell you what if you're a premier league fullback and you've spent the whole game chasing Nasri and Silva's shadows for 70 minutes the last thing you're gonna want coming on is a kid who just loves running at you. Especially one you know nowt about with electric pace. Terrifying, potentially. You just never 100% know until you try a player at a higher level what they can do.
It's a no brainer - you reward kids who are consistently excellent in the youth and reserve team with a chance cos its the only logical and sane thing to do. If you don't you eventually risk 'missing the moment' and you never quite grasp and utilise that youthful exuberance while a player still has it and their enthusiasm (naturally, as it can happen) wanes and they just don't seem quite the same. Dramatic, but it can happen.
I think he'll skin the championship equivalent of John O'Shea early on for pace, then the shithouse will then spend the rest of the game kicking him as hard as he can untill he either limps off or is carried off. He isn't physically ready to put up with the kicking that someone as quick and skilfull as he is going to receive and I don't think we'd be doing him any favours throwing him in there before he is physically ready.twosips said:I don't get what people will think will happen if we play Barker. Do we think he'll be so bad that he'll single handedly cost us the game? Or his head will explode from nerves? Or he'll cry for his mummy cos he's only 18?
BigOscar said:I think he'll skin the championship equivalent of John O'Shea early on for pace, then the shithouse will then spend the rest of the game kicking him as hard as he can untill he either limps off or is carried off. He isn't physically ready to put up with the kicking that someone as quick and skilfull as he is going to receive and I don't think we'd be doing him any favours throwing him in there before he is physically ready.twosips said:I don't get what people will think will happen if we play Barker. Do we think he'll be so bad that he'll single handedly cost us the game? Or his head will explode from nerves? Or he'll cry for his mummy cos he's only 18?
And that ruined Messi? Learning process isn't it.
The one thing i don't get is how he's gonna learn to deal with that in the youth team.
How big do you have to be to not be bothered by a kicking? I don't think you can be any size and take it for the first time well tbh. Ronaldo, though scrawnier comparatively to what he is now, was still an athlete and a strapping lad at 18 and he wasn't used to being kicked. He struggled, and still does now to be fair, but he learned to live with it. I don't think Barker getting a stone heavier and a bit stronger will make the first time a seasoned pro kicks him in the shins any easier - it's gonna be an irritant either way. Gotta get it out of the way really...
He'll have to learn at some point as all wingers do that you're going to get kicked. I'm sure he has been kicked about already too as he would have been highlighted as the danger man already at many levels. Continuously playing amongst people his own age is just wrapping him in cotton wool in my opinion - how do you get streetwise if you're never allowed on the street?
How big do you have to be to not be bothered by a kicking? I don't think you can be any size and take it for the first time well tbh. Ronaldo, though scrawnier comparatively to what he is now, was still an athlete and a strapping lad at 18 and he wasn't used to being kicked. He struggled, and still does now to be fair, but he learned to live with it. I don't think Barker getting a stone heavier and a bit stronger will make the first time a seasoned pro kicks him in the shins any easier - it's gonna be an irritant either way. Gotta get it out of the way really...
He'll have to learn at some point as all wingers do that you're going to get kicked. I'm sure he has been kicked about already too as he would have been highlighted as the danger man already at many levels. Continuously playing amongst people his own age is just wrapping him in cotton wool in my opinion - how do you get streetwise if you're never allowed on the street?
You answered your own question. Ronaldo was still an athlete and a strapping lad at 18, as was Rony Lopes when he played for us at 17. They have to be at a certain physical level before they can start "learning" how to take a good kicking, otherwise they don't have the tools to deal with it and it's not doing them any favours. They are more likely to get hurt than learn anything.twosips said:The one thing i don't get is how he's gonna learn to deal with that in the youth team.
How big do you have to be to not be bothered by a kicking? I don't think you can be any size and take it for the first time well tbh. Ronaldo, though scrawnier comparatively to what he is now, was still an athlete and a strapping lad at 18 and he wasn't used to being kicked. He struggled, and still does now to be fair, but he learned to live with it. I don't think Barker getting a stone heavier and a bit stronger will make the first time a seasoned pro kicks him in the shins any easier - it's gonna be an irritant either way. Gotta get it out of the way really...
He'll have to learn at some point as all wingers do that you're going to get kicked. I'm sure he has been kicked about already too as he would have been highlighted as the danger man already at many levels. Continuously playing amongst people his own age is just wrapping him in cotton wool in my opinion - how do you get streetwise if you're never allowed on the street?
As for you thinking it's wrapping him in cotton wool to keep playing him against people his own age, not sure how that makes any sense, as he's only 6 months in to his first season playing U21 football, as a 18 year old. It's hard to see how that's him playing against people his own age, or how it's us "continuously" doing it, it's doing things in the right order. You learn to handle the physicality of U21 football before you throw them into the deep end of senior football. Barker is still adjusting to the level he's at now, he's not proven himself to even be at that physcial level yet.
By your logic, we may as well just do away with youth football and have grown men kicking the shit out of 13/14 year olds, as it's apparently the only way they'll learn.
My point with Ronaldo was that size is no guarantee of being able to 'take a kicking'. I think the only way you know is by giving someone a go.
Six months into his EDS life or not, he's 18 and not a 16 year old. He's not that young. He's young, but its a reasonable age. He's been performing exceptionally and appears to have taken any physical tests at that level in his stride and has no problem with them. I see no reason for leaving him in the youth team if its purely for physique reasons - he's proven he can handle this level so what more is there to gain? Maybe that's where our opinion differs, cos i think he's proven it week in week out physically at the level he's out. I think your argument is caution for the sake of caution, whereas you'd argue mine is probably too optimistic/naive. Oh well.
The 13 year old thing is ridiculous, obviously. He's eighteen, he's not a 13 year old boy. He's still young, yes, but many, many footballers have made a name for themselves at much younger an age than 18. Though you'd not only keep a talented 13 year old playing against 13 year olds would you? How many stories do we hear of talented kids at the age of 13 running rings around those 2/3 years older than themselves? Quite often really. Talented footballers go up levels quicker cos they're fearless and take on the world. I think Barker is of that ilk.
Six months into his EDS life or not, he's 18 and not a 16 year old. He's not that young. He's young, but its a reasonable age. He's been performing exceptionally and appears to have taken any physical tests at that level in his stride and has no problem with them. I see no reason for leaving him in the youth team if its purely for physique reasons - he's proven he can handle this level so what more is there to gain? Maybe that's where our opinion differs, cos i think he's proven it week in week out physically at the level he's out. I think your argument is caution for the sake of caution, whereas you'd argue mine is probably too optimistic/naive. Oh well.
The 13 year old thing is ridiculous, obviously. He's eighteen, he's not a 13 year old boy. He's still young, yes, but many, many footballers have made a name for themselves at much younger an age than 18. Though you'd not only keep a talented 13 year old playing against 13 year olds would you? How many stories do we hear of talented kids at the age of 13 running rings around those 2/3 years older than themselves? Quite often really. Talented footballers go up levels quicker cos they're fearless and take on the world. I think Barker is of that ilk.
Did you watch the game against chelsea the other day. The ref in that game let a lot of tackles go unpunished that you would'nt get away with in the premier league. I've watched him play a few times and he does'nt seem to shy away from a physical battle. I say give the lad a chance he could surprise you how good he is.BigOscar said:I think he'll skin the championship equivalent of John O'Shea early on for pace, then the shithouse will then spend the rest of the game kicking him as hard as he can untill he either limps off or is carried off. He isn't physically ready to put up with the kicking that someone as quick and skilfull as he is going to receive and I don't think we'd be doing him any favours throwing him in there before he is physically ready.twosips said:I don't get what people will think will happen if we play Barker. Do we think he'll be so bad that he'll single handedly cost us the game? Or his head will explode from nerves? Or he'll cry for his mummy cos he's only 18?
Cheadle_hulmeBlue
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BigOscar said:You answered your own question. Ronaldo was still an athlete and a strapping lad at 18, as was Rony Lopes when he played for us at 17. They have to be at a certain physical level before they can start "learning" how to take a good kicking, otherwise they don't have the tools to deal with it and it's not doing them any favours. They are more likely to get hurt than learn anything.twosips said:The one thing i don't get is how he's gonna learn to deal with that in the youth team.
How big do you have to be to not be bothered by a kicking? I don't think you can be any size and take it for the first time well tbh. Ronaldo, though scrawnier comparatively to what he is now, was still an athlete and a strapping lad at 18 and he wasn't used to being kicked. He struggled, and still does now to be fair, but he learned to live with it. I don't think Barker getting a stone heavier and a bit stronger will make the first time a seasoned pro kicks him in the shins any easier - it's gonna be an irritant either way. Gotta get it out of the way really...
He'll have to learn at some point as all wingers do that you're going to get kicked. I'm sure he has been kicked about already too as he would have been highlighted as the danger man already at many levels. Continuously playing amongst people his own age is just wrapping him in cotton wool in my opinion - how do you get streetwise if you're never allowed on the street?
As for you thinking it's wrapping him in cotton wool to keep playing him against people his own age, not sure how that makes any sense, as he's only 6 months in to his first season playing U21 football, as a 18 year old. It's hard to see how that's him playing against people his own age, or how it's us "continuously" doing it, it's doing things in the right order. You learn to handle the physicality of U21 football before you throw them into the deep end of senior football. Barker is still adjusting to the level he's at now, he's not proven himself to even be at that physcial level yet.
By your logic, we may as well just do away with youth football and have grown men kicking the shit out of 13/14 year olds, as it's apparently the only way they'll learn.
theres plenty of 18 year olds and younger players who seem to cope with tackles and being smaller. ward prows, hesketh- southampton and adam armstrong ( 17 year old) . its not as if navas or silva are huge are they ? . he's 18 he's not a kid now and as I said most players wouldn't be playing until they were about 21 if that was a clubs attitude. Rooney was 16 even look at owen who was tiny and he managed fine. So if he goes to the gym a bit and bulks up them he'll be fine ?
he's playing against huge lads now in the eds team and is managing fine. I think your being to cautious. He should at least be on the bench for the fa cup game imo
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