Brandon Barker

[waspish]

Look at silva he's not built like a brick wall and 6 foot plus, he skips over players and twists and turns away from tackles

 

[Neville Kneville]

I don't get what people will think will happen if we play Barker. Do we think he'll be so bad that he'll single handedly cost us the game? Or his head will explode from nerves? Or he'll cry for his mummy cos he's only 18?

I think he'll skin the championship equivalent of John O'Shea early on for pace, then the shithouse will then spend the rest of the game kicking him as hard as he can untill he either limps off or is carried off. He isn't physically ready to put up with the kicking that someone as quick and skilfull as he is going to receive and I don't think we'd be doing him any favours throwing him in there before he is physically ready.

Did you watch the game against chelsea the other day. The ref in that game let a lot of tackles go unpunished that you would'nt get away with in the premier league. I've watched him play a few times and he does'nt seem to shy away from a physical battle. I say give the lad a chance he could surprise you how good he is.

I don't know why, & where this idea of Barker struggling physically has come from. Imo he's way ahead of Pozo in that area & bigger & stronger than Lopes was when he debuted in the first team, by some margin. He's one of the best built forwards at the academy. He's a pretty strong, fast well built lad, who wins his fair share of headers, tracks back plenty & gets kicked pretty much all the time at that level, often on heavier pitches than any of the first team players ever play on. He is more used to being kicked than most of the first team squad. The challenge which saw him off v Chelsea, was two feet off the ground, over the ball, & a borderline red card in the Premier League. Several other 'card' challenges went completely unpunished.

As twosips points out, the worst that would happen is that he'd have a quiet game & be taken off (or have a quiet game when brought on). That would just teach him how he needs to improve. If he went off due to being kicked, so what ? He gets kicked every week.

David White or Peter Barnes were not 'tougher' than Barker when they started in the first team. Neither liked being tackled. And they played in eras where it was quite comon to be crippled by a fullback during a game (as did Giggs when he started). I remember Frank Gray breaking Barnes' collar bone with a tackle! SWP ? Ireland when he started (soft as shite) ?

Most likely these days, that Barker's opponent would be sent off if they went down that road. The crowd would go apeshit. Been so long since we debuted a kid winger, people have probably forgotten the way the crowd protect such a player.

Barker could actually help the team. He is a better footballer than Milner or Navas. It would be in the interest of the team, to see if he could do a job as an impact player.

 

[BigOscar]

I don't get what people will think will happen if we play Barker. Do we think he'll be so bad that he'll single handedly cost us the game? Or his head will explode from nerves? Or he'll cry for his mummy cos he's only 18?

I think he'll skin the championship equivalent of John O'Shea early on for pace, then the shithouse will then spend the rest of the game kicking him as hard as he can untill he either limps off or is carried off. He isn't physically ready to put up with the kicking that someone as quick and skilfull as he is going to receive and I don't think we'd be doing him any favours throwing him in there before he is physically ready.

Did you watch the game against chelsea the other day. The ref in that game let a lot of tackles go unpunished that you would'nt get away with in the premier league. I've watched him play a few times and he does'nt seem to shy away from a physical battle. I say give the lad a chance he could surprise you how good he is.

The Chelsea game isn't a particularly good example of your point, seeming as he got worn down and kicked off the pitch by an U21 side, albeit a very physical one. That's the sort of stuff he's preparing for, as full mens sides are much more physical than that, they will hit harder with fair challenges than the players he's used to playing with do with horror challenges. That game will of done him the world of good in learning about that side of the game though, he needs that experience before he gets to the first team level if he's going to handle it imo.

Pretty much all the players people are bringing up as examples all played reserve team football before they played first team football, many of the smaller ones started out in the much softer foreign leagues, which is my main point. He hasn't even had a year of these physical tests yet, I don't see why people are in such a hurry to risk him and why they are so confident that they know better than the coaches who watch him every day? He will of trained with the first team, Pellegrini will see how prepared he is to handle someone like Zaba.

I also don't know why people keep claiming the worst thing that could happen is that he could have a quiet game? Surely the worst thing that could happen is that he gets injured, badly? Someone brought up Michael Owen as an example of how it doesn't matter if people are small, whereas I see that completely the opposite way. I see him as someone who's long term career was ruined by people taking the exact attitude people are taking with Barker, playing him too much, too soon when his body wasn't as prepared as it should of been. Yes you might get some short term gain, but you risk destroying the player by his mid 20's.

He is a kid who has the talent be a huge part of this team for the next 10-12 years, I don't see spending a year in the U21's getting him the best mental and physical preperation possible as being overly cautious at all, I see it as a perfectly sensible. I just think his future is too bright to risk rushing him.

 

[Neville Kneville]

I think he'll skin the championship equivalent of John O'Shea early on for pace, then the shithouse will then spend the rest of the game kicking him as hard as he can untill he either limps off or is carried off. He isn't physically ready to put up with the kicking that someone as quick and skilfull as he is going to receive and I don't think we'd be doing him any favours throwing him in there before he is physically ready.

Did you watch the game against chelsea the other day. The ref in that game let a lot of tackles go unpunished that you would'nt get away with in the premier league. I've watched him play a few times and he does'nt seem to shy away from a physical battle. I say give the lad a chance he could surprise you how good he is.

The Chelsea game isn't a particularly good example of your point, seeming as he got worn down and kicked off the pitch by an U21 side, albeit a very physical one. That's the sort of stuff he's preparing for, as full mens sides are much more physical than that, they will hit harder with fair challenges than the players he's used to playing with do with horror challenges. That game will of done him the world of good in learning about that side of the game though, he needs that experience before he gets to the first team level if he's going to handle it imo.

Pretty much all the players people are bringing up as examples all played reserve team football before they played first team football, many of the smaller ones started out in the much softer foreign leagues, which is my main point. He hasn't even had a year of these physical tests yet, I don't see why people are in such a hurry to risk him and why they are so confident that they know better than the coaches who watch him every day? He will of trained with the first team, Pellegrini will see how prepared he is to handle someone like Zaba.

I also don't know why people keep claiming the worst thing that could happen is that he could have a quiet game? Surely the worst thing that could happen is that he gets injured, badly? Someone brought up Michael Owen as an example of how it doesn't matter if people are small, whereas I see that completely the opposite way. I see him as someone who's long term career was ruined by people taking the exact attitude people are taking with Barker, playing him too much, too soon when his body wasn't as prepared as it should of been. Yes you might get some short term gain, but you risk destroying the player by his mid 20's.

He is a kid who has the talent be a huge part of this team for the next 10-12 years, I don't see spending a year in the U21's getting him the best mental and physical preperation possible as being overly cautious at all, I see it as a perfectly sensible. I just think his future is too bright to risk rushing him.

Why are you making out that the Chelsea game was a new experience for Barker ? It absolutely wasn't any different to loads of other games he's played.

The lad has played against Manchester Utd ffs.

And Owen's problem was because he was played week in week out & had issues with his legs which were incorrectly dealt with by Liverpool, not because he played an hour in a cup tie.

You are talking complete nonsense which has no basis in anything as regards the development of young players.

 

[carlos tevez is a blue]

Amazing that we can play Boyata at cb in these games without batting an eyelid, but people are worried Brandon Barker is too much of a risk.

We put that clown Nastasic in the team at Real Madrid, but having Barker on the wing vs Sheffield Wednesday would be a bridge too far.

Have you swapped your Rekik hate for Nastastic hate?

 

[BigOscar]

Did you watch the game against chelsea the other day. The ref in that game let a lot of tackles go unpunished that you would'nt get away with in the premier league. I've watched him play a few times and he does'nt seem to shy away from a physical battle. I say give the lad a chance he could surprise you how good he is.

The Chelsea game isn't a particularly good example of your point, seeming as he got worn down and kicked off the pitch by an U21 side, albeit a very physical one. That's the sort of stuff he's preparing for, as full mens sides are much more physical than that, they will hit harder with fair challenges than the players he's used to playing with do with horror challenges. That game will of done him the world of good in learning about that side of the game though, he needs that experience before he gets to the first team level if he's going to handle it imo.

Pretty much all the players people are bringing up as examples all played reserve team football before they played first team football, many of the smaller ones started out in the much softer foreign leagues, which is my main point. He hasn't even had a year of these physical tests yet, I don't see why people are in such a hurry to risk him and why they are so confident that they know better than the coaches who watch him every day? He will of trained with the first team, Pellegrini will see how prepared he is to handle someone like Zaba.

I also don't know why people keep claiming the worst thing that could happen is that he could have a quiet game? Surely the worst thing that could happen is that he gets injured, badly? Someone brought up Michael Owen as an example of how it doesn't matter if people are small, whereas I see that completely the opposite way. I see him as someone who's long term career was ruined by people taking the exact attitude people are taking with Barker, playing him too much, too soon when his body wasn't as prepared as it should of been. Yes you might get some short term gain, but you risk destroying the player by his mid 20's.

He is a kid who has the talent be a huge part of this team for the next 10-12 years, I don't see spending a year in the U21's getting him the best mental and physical preperation possible as being overly cautious at all, I see it as a perfectly sensible. I just think his future is too bright to risk rushing him.

Why are you making out that the Chelsea game was a new experience for Barker ? It absolutely wasn't any different to loads of other games he's played.

The lad has played against Manchester Utd ffs.

And Owen's problem was because he was played week in week out & had issues with his legs which were incorrectly dealt with by Liverpool, not because he played an hour in a cup tie.

You are talking complete nonsense which has no basis in anything as regards the development of young players.

Of course the Chelsea game is a new experience for him, as it's only about his 20th reserve team game and against the best team in the country at that level. It will of been one of thte toughest games he's ever played in, surely that's of some benefit to a person? I never said it was a unique experience or the first test of it's type he's had, but every game at that level is still a new experience for him.

 

[Neville Kneville]

The Chelsea game isn't a particularly good example of your point, seeming as he got worn down and kicked off the pitch by an U21 side, albeit a very physical one. That's the sort of stuff he's preparing for, as full mens sides are much more physical than that, they will hit harder with fair challenges than the players he's used to playing with do with horror challenges. That game will of done him the world of good in learning about that side of the game though, he needs that experience before he gets to the first team level if he's going to handle it imo.

Pretty much all the players people are bringing up as examples all played reserve team football before they played first team football, many of the smaller ones started out in the much softer foreign leagues, which is my main point. He hasn't even had a year of these physical tests yet, I don't see why people are in such a hurry to risk him and why they are so confident that they know better than the coaches who watch him every day? He will of trained with the first team, Pellegrini will see how prepared he is to handle someone like Zaba.

I also don't know why people keep claiming the worst thing that could happen is that he could have a quiet game? Surely the worst thing that could happen is that he gets injured, badly? Someone brought up Michael Owen as an example of how it doesn't matter if people are small, whereas I see that completely the opposite way. I see him as someone who's long term career was ruined by people taking the exact attitude people are taking with Barker, playing him too much, too soon when his body wasn't as prepared as it should of been. Yes you might get some short term gain, but you risk destroying the player by his mid 20's.

He is a kid who has the talent be a huge part of this team for the next 10-12 years, I don't see spending a year in the U21's getting him the best mental and physical preperation possible as being overly cautious at all, I see it as a perfectly sensible. I just think his future is too bright to risk rushing him.

Why are you making out that the Chelsea game was a new experience for Barker ? It absolutely wasn't any different to loads of other games he's played.

The lad has played against Manchester Utd ffs.

And Owen's problem was because he was played week in week out & had issues with his legs which were incorrectly dealt with by Liverpool, not because he played an hour in a cup tie.

You are talking complete nonsense which has no basis in anything as regards the development of young players.

Of course the Chelsea game is a new experience for him, as it's only about his 20th reserve team game and against the best team in the country at that level. It will of been one of thte toughest games he's ever played in, surely that's of some benefit to a person? I never said it was a unique experience or the first test of it's type he's had, but every game at that level is still a new experience for him.

Ok, every fresh game is a new experience for him. But what I mean is, he's played vs those rag shites & been kicked up in the air, he's played against high quality footballers of all different kinds.

Nobody is asking for him to play 20 games in the Premier League. Just that he gets some minutes here & there, to give him, & us, a taster of what he has to do at the top level.

Over the years, the young players who have suddely gone up a level, are almost always those who have been given a chance in their respective first team. If he was small or frail, I could apreciate not wanting him to get physically & psychologically bitched, but he isn't. He's a nice solid lad & he's fast. He is exactly the kind of young kid who often thrives on such an opportunity.

I could see him going on loan without even getting a kick in City's team first. That's not right imo. It wouldn't be for his benefit, it would be because we don't trust him. We should trust him, & one or two others. Some may be good enough to join the squad next season, if we find out a bit about them now.

 

[BigOscar]

Why are you making out that the Chelsea game was a new experience for Barker ? It absolutely wasn't any different to loads of other games he's played.

The lad has played against Manchester Utd ffs.

And Owen's problem was because he was played week in week out & had issues with his legs which were incorrectly dealt with by Liverpool, not because he played an hour in a cup tie.

You are talking complete nonsense which has no basis in anything as regards the development of young players.

Of course the Chelsea game is a new experience for him, as it's only about his 20th reserve team game and against the best team in the country at that level. It will of been one of thte toughest games he's ever played in, surely that's of some benefit to a person? I never said it was a unique experience or the first test of it's type he's had, but every game at that level is still a new experience for him.

Ok, every fresh game is a new experience for him. But what I mean is, he's played vs those rag shites & been kicked up in the air, he's played against high quality footballers of all different kinds.

Nobody is asking for him to play 20 games in the Premier League. Just that he gets some minutes here & there, to give him, & us, a taster of what he has to do at the top level.

Over the years, the young players who have suddely gone up a level, are almost always those who have been given a chance in their respective first team. If he was small or frail, I could apreciate not wanting him to get physically & psychologically bitched, but he isn't. He's a nice solid lad & he's fast. He is exactly the kind of young kid who often thrives on such an opportunity.

I could see him going on loan without even getting a kick in City's team first. That's not right imo. It wouldn't be for his benefit, it would be because we don't trust him. We should trust him, & one or two others. Some may be good enough to join the squad next season, if we find out a bit about them now.

You see, this is where I think our opinions differ. I think he is a bit on the thin and frail side. Earlier you said he's bigger and stronger than Lopes was, which I don't agree on at all. Lopes, even at 16/17, was stocky, broad chested, with powerful legs and well developed. To me, Barker looks a bit lanky, with no upper body to speak of and spindly little legs. He's taller than Lopes with a decent size frame, but he's nowhere near as built. He looks like this year he is starting to thicken out a bit and put on that muscle, but he's still a bit thin looking.

As for the loan thing, I think he'd benefit hugely from a loan to Holland next year. They all play wingers, they all play football, he'd have a great time against the piss poor excuse for fullbacks they have over there and it would be a great stepping stone to the premier league(for an attacking player, not for a defender). I don't see the harm in going out on loan before getting into the first team, it seems like an obvious step/proving ground? It's very hard to prove you are ready to be trusted with a proper first team squad spot at a top side like us with only a few cup games and some preseason friendlies. You could easily see him playing 30-40 games for a top end Dutch side next year and come back absolutely perfect for a genuine first team squad spot for us the year after, having proven that he can be relied upon at that sort of level. (like Denayer or Lopes are hopefully doing this season)

 

[Neville Kneville]

I think you're mistaken in the idea he's thin or lanky, he's just not especially muscle bound in any area. He's just a fairly solid, evenly built lad. If you look at the Chelsea game on the OS & watch the slomo of him skinning their defence when he scores, he's actually not that much proportionally different in build to some of the bigger Chelsea lads, they are just taller.

At a similar age & build, Peter Barnes was playing regularly for City's first team & I could see Barker becoming a very similar player in this current City squad.

I have no problem with any of them going out on loan, but not if they could be effective players in the first team squad. Plus we are potentially about 5-6 players short in the 'homegrown' places for Europe next season unless Lampard comes back again. We would just have Hart, Clichy, Milner then Boyata plus whoever we bring back from Denayer, Lopes etc. So we potentially have to sign a 'homegrown' player if we don't use people like Barker.

It would be a big help, if some of the lads on the 'B' list, were genuine contenders for games.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I think he'll skin the championship equivalent of John O'Shea early on for pace, then the shithouse will then spend the rest of the game kicking him as hard as he can untill he either limps off or is carried off. He isn't physically ready to put up with the kicking that someone as quick and skilfull as he is going to receive and I don't think we'd be doing him any favours throwing him in there before he is physically ready.

Did you watch the game against chelsea the other day. The ref in that game let a lot of tackles go unpunished that you would'nt get away with in the premier league. I've watched him play a few times and he does'nt seem to shy away from a physical battle. I say give the lad a chance he could surprise you how good he is.

The Chelsea game isn't a particularly good example of your point, seeming as he got worn down and kicked off the pitch by an U21 side, albeit a very physical one. That's the sort of stuff he's preparing for, as full mens sides are much more physical than that, they will hit harder with fair challenges than the players he's used to playing with do with horror challenges. That game will of done him the world of good in learning about that side of the game though, he needs that experience before he gets to the first team level if he's going to handle it imo.

Pretty much all the players people are bringing up as examples all played reserve team football before they played first team football, many of the smaller ones started out in the much softer foreign leagues, which is my main point. He hasn't even had a year of these physical tests yet, I don't see why people are in such a hurry to risk him and why they are so confident that they know better than the coaches who watch him every day? He will of trained with the first team, Pellegrini will see how prepared he is to handle someone like Zaba.

I also don't know why people keep claiming the worst thing that could happen is that he could have a quiet game? Surely the worst thing that could happen is that he gets injured, badly? Someone brought up Michael Owen as an example of how it doesn't matter if people are small, whereas I see that completely the opposite way. I see him as someone who's long term career was ruined by people taking the exact attitude people are taking with Barker, playing him too much, too soon when his body wasn't as prepared as it should of been. Yes you might get some short term gain, but you risk destroying the player by his mid 20's.

He is a kid who has the talent be a huge part of this team for the next 10-12 years, I don't see spending a year in the U21's getting him the best mental and physical preperation possible as being overly cautious at all, I see it as a perfectly sensible. I just think his future is too bright to risk rushing him.

no one is taking about playing him week in week out though. 30 minutes against middelsborough not gonna kill him is it. Or some sub appearances.

you say he looks frail but have you not seen the kid southampton played james hesketh looks smaller and weaker, yet he managed fine. Appearnce can be deceiving look at silva or naves they dont exactly look strong do they.