Breaking records/stats thread

[waspish]

Gary, don't take offence that I disagree with you. The reason I believe you are the official source is because City have said they were told by the city historian it counted as a win despite much debate in their offices, I assume that historian is You. You then said it was united precedent, a precedent that actually seems to show it as a draw. Then it was IFAB who actually say the match is drawn. So it's pretty clear that it's a grey area.

As for why it's so hard to accept that a sequence is is going? That's surely obvious, Stats are pointless if they are wrong and different teams class a result differently.

Your wrong all clubs who win on pens class it as a win.

 

[Gary James]

Gary, don't take offence that I disagree with you. The reason I believe you are the official source is because City have said they were told by the city historian it counted as a win despite much debate in their offices, I assume that historian is You. You then said it was united precedent, a precedent that actually seems to show it as a draw. Then it was IFAB who actually say the match is drawn. So it's pretty clear that it's a grey area.

As for why it's so hard to accept that a sequence is is going? That's surely obvious, Stats are pointless if they are wrong and different teams class a result differently.

First of all, I am not MCFC's official historian. I am not employed by the club. I do see myself as a football historian and a City fan. Occasionally, I get called a City historian, just like others who produce stats and history on the club. I have at times provided consultation to them (such as during the badge consultation project when I did presentations to the club and supporters) but I am not an official historian. I am taking offence because I am a fan like you or anybody else and have no say in deciding what is or isn't regarded as a record. I have an opinion, which I have expressed, based on decades of research and life membership of the Association of Football Statisticians (now defunct!) but it is only an opinion. People listen because, I guess, they recognise my work is well researched and has often been credited as benchmark work in particular areas. Some people at MCFC do ask for my opinion - as they do with many fans - but many others do not. This is obvious when the club sometimes publishes something that I disagree with (it wasn't that long ago that some at City were still saying that Eric Brook's record was 178 goals for example and that Anna Connell 'founded' the club). The club makes mistakes and when they do I, like other fans, tell them. On this sequence though I agree with them.

In terms of UTD etc. I never said MUFC's official records show a precedent, what I said was that at the time Ferguson was about to make his 100th CL win in Europe this was published saying that the media were counting the CL final as a win (won on penalties) in terms of Ferguson's record:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/264184-win-or-draw-how-should-a-penalty-shoot-out-victory-be-viewed

On the IFAB. This is their rule:

The team scoring the greater number of goals is the winner. If both teams score no goals or an equal number of goals the match is drawn.


When competition rules require a winning team after a drawn match or home- and-away tie, the only permitted procedures to determine the winning team are:

• away goals rule
• two equal periods of extra time not exceeding 15 minutes each • kicks from the penalty mark

A combination of the above procedures may be used.

Obviously, you are focusing on the first line of that, not on the line which says 'when competition rules require a winning team after a drawn match or home- and-away tie, the only permitted procedures to determine the winning team are....' The LC required a winning team after a single drawn match and therefore the winning team was decided via the methods outlined.

On top of all of this is the Arsenal precedent which was outlined in an earlier post. Why should Arsenal include it and not City? It's illogical! As you say stats are pointless if different teams class them differently, hence the consistency.

Every view matters and I am delighted you are so interested in statistics to investigate, but I cannot understand why you are you making this about me. We are all entitled to our opinion and my opinion is that the game at the end of extra time was a draw but was won on penalties following competition rules and the IFAB laws. If you've got an issue with the result being counted in the sequence contact the people who matter - MCFC, the Football League and the IFAB. Not me, a fan who has given his opinion. My opinion is not worth any more than yours, so don't make out that I'm the man responsible for competition rules or determining whether this is or isn't included.

Edit: Oh, and according to Chris Slater MCFC tweeted about the record straight after the game - I was either making my way out of the stadium or in my car stuck in traffic and didn't go on the internet, receive a call/message or anything until I got home when I posted on my Facebook about the record being set. There was no doubt in my mind but, according to Chris, City had already called it anyway.

 

[domalino]

Obviously, you are focusing on the first line of that, not on the line which says 'when competition rules require a winning team after a drawn match or home- and-away tie, the only permitted procedures to determine the winning team are....'

Isn't this line that you're quoting pointing out it was a drawn match?




To be honest If the BBC, EFL, City etc. are all happy to call it a win, I'm not going to argue otherwise, but I read your post hoping for IFAB confirmation and the bit I've highlighted in red seems to prove the opposite.

 

[Gary James]

Isn't this line that you're quoting pointing out it was a drawn match?




To be honest If the BBC, EFL, City etc. are all happy to call it a win, I'm not going to argue too much, but I read your post hoping for IFAB confirmation and the bit I've highlighted in red seems to prove the opposite.

To determine the winning team.... MCFC's record is winning sequence. Does the game count as a win for MCFC yes - that's the point. It's a winning sequence.

 

[Henkeman]

For me, the most valid point made was the one asking whether had City lost on penalties anyone would have claimed it was still an unbeaten run. I can't see that anyone would have, so that kind of ends the debate as far as I'm concerned.

As for Gary, it's kind of a compliment to you in that people think your view matters, even if it is just an opinion.

 

[blueinsa]

Record keepers must have a convention? I sent an enquiry to the Guinness Book of records asking them how they would deal with the scenario. They will get back to me within 2 weeks.

I’d ask if you have anything fucking better to do but obviously not.

Starvin Marvin outdoing himself which is some feat pmsl.

 

[San Tropez]

Ashamed to have to log on to say this but I am a Mathematician and Proof by Contradiction says City won the match.

 

[Marvin]

I’d ask if you have anything fucking better to do but obviously not.

Starvin Marvin outdoing himself which is some feat pmsl.

You find that funny? I contributed to the topic, whereas your contribution is to ridicule.

 

[blueinsa]

You find that funny? I contributed to the topic, whereas your contribution is to ridicule.

Not only do you ask for it, you deserve it.

 

[Marvin]

Not only do you ask for it, you deserve it.

In the context of this topic, how exactly?