British Justice ... it sucks in this instance.

[The Flash]

For someone who seems to think the only possible reason that anyone could be disagreeing with you here is because they haven't read all the poets properly, you seem to be suffering from the same fate.

At no point have I said he admitted using a bottle. Although your 100% certainty that he wouldn't lie about it, is a bit odd.

I've just took your words from the opening post about him admitting assault and said, even taking yours/ his version as fact, I don't think 14 months appears unduly harsh.

To be fair, I struggled with Pam Ayres and Benny Hill.

Oy wish oy'd looked arfter moy teeth....

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The thing I found interesting and worrying about this is that a man of previous good character gets 14 months for decking someone, without causing serious injury, yet how many times do you read about people with previous convictions for violent offences not getting custodial sentences?

I think you're falling into the trap of believing the apparent light sentences that the press like to highlight at every opportunity as being the norm, rather than the exception. Usually with exceptional circumstances they fail to mention.

Of course people have done worse and not gone to jail but I suspect 14 months is pretty standard for what it seems he's admitted to here.

You're probably right mate. The starting point for the most serious category of ABH is 18 months so he's presumably been given some credit for his good character but the degree of pre-meditation and the use of the head counted against him.

My views on the justice system have been shaped by a couple of factors, including a chat I had with a senior official of the Prison Officers Association at a meeting we both attended with Ken Clarke when he became Justice Minister in 2010 and I was working on a big MoJ project. We got talking about prison sentences and he said that they had three primary aims - punishment for the offender, protection of society and a chance to rehabilitate the offender. He was actually supportive of abolishing shorter sentences (which Clarke wanted to do) as he said you couldn't really rehabilitate someone who was sentenced to 6 months or less, being as they'd only do 3 generally.

The question in this case, when applying those 3 principles was:
1) Did Anthony deserve to be punished? Yes he did.
2) Did society need to be protected from him? I'd say not really, as he had no history of previous offending.
3) Did he need rehabilitation? No, because he was honest and presumably remorseful over what he'd done.

I'd say that simply having a criminal record would be punishment enough, if he was indeed a man of previously good character. In figures from 2011, only the Baltic nations jailed significantly more people per 100,000 population than we did (153 per 100,000). Spain was about the same whereas Italy, Germany and France were a lot lower (111, 85 & 96 respectively). That suggests to name we're jailing about 50% more people than we need to.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Remind me again how many gun fatalities you have in Chicago compared to any city in Britain, where most folk aren't armed to the teeth?

Chicago, Year To Date Totals
Shot & Killed: 143
Shot & Wounded: 841
Total Homicides: 174

Thanks for helping illustrate the ridiculous parallel you are trying to draw. I hear the murder rate in Chicago is trailing Damascus, though, but I don't live there, either!!

BTW, who are these "most folk" of whom you speak so knowledgeably? Did you know that until last year it was illegal to own a gun in Chicago? Hmmmm, how did all that violence occur if law abiding citizens (most folk) were not even allowed to own a gun?

And, did you know that Illinois was the LAST STATE IN THE USA to allow concealed carry? That law only just changed and the first few people are finally getting through the process today.

So, Chicago (and Illinois) has not been the Wild West for law abiding people EVER! It has been illegal to own a gun yet all that gun violence? Quandary, huh? So, let's consider that "talking point" the flatulence it was when it left your arse.

Moving on....

'I have been trained to kill by Federal Law Enforcement' - have a word with yourself, Clint.

For someone who knows anything about firearms and training, that would actually have had the OPPOSITE meaning, but then, like you said, you are ignorant of the laws and attitudes in the US, and like it that way. Getting some of the best firearms training in the world means knowing when to shoot and, more importantly, when not to shoot. From there, it is about making sure your shots count, because you have already made the decision your life is in danger. Nothing Dirty Harry about it, but maybe you prefer your gun owners to have no training and no idea of the law, or reasonable force, or self defense? Ignorance really IS bliss sometimes, isn't it?!

You're a wannabe one-man army who buys the NRA's rhetoric, so there really is no point in debating with you further.

That's it? Liberal talking points from afar by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Maybe I should have brought you a wet paper bag, because you might have better luck debating your way out of that! Let me know when "the debate" starts will ya, because all I have read so far is....

Run, Forrest, Run!!!

Oh, and randomly leaving your caps lock on doesn't strengthen your case - it just makes your posts look like an angry six year old constructed them.

Neither random nor childish, but meant to highlight important concepts and for added emphasis on them for people who struggle with sentences and stuff. And, considerably easier than formatting for underlining on a Forum.

Oh wait, was that your parting shot? Hahahaha hahahaha! Wow, you really ARE a good debater!! I feel like I have just had my ass handed to me! You win, I couldn't possibly compete with such intellect. I'm going to go into the basement and cry a little while stroking my HK!!

Seriously, don't show up to a gun fight (debate on guns) with a dull knife. I take no joy in reading gibberish, and there is no sport in shooting holes in an already tortured excuse for logic.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Yep, hilarious.....if you find me protecting myself and my family funny. Two in the heart, one in the head, in under 2 seconds, from about 10 yards....lather, rinse, repeat until threat neutralized. Emphasizing the word "kill" tends to make an assailant's ears prick up, as opposed to saying "will shoot you." And, it is a far more accurate descriptor.

Easy way around this is don't come into my house uninvited to steal my shit or threaten my family and everyone is happy. You might find this "boneheaded," but the law calls it "self defense" and protecting my family's life and property. And, by law, I don't even need to give an assailant a warning, only the Police do! The threshold of a man's house is a line that should not be crossed without invitation.

Plus, it adds a little sport to B&E, doesn't it?

Bwahahahahahahahahah THAT!!!

No need really.
You are a trigger happy simpleton who has watched too many Dirty Harry films.
'I can kill folk and get away with it - how big a hard on does that give me?'
Until the day comes when the intruder has a bigger, better gun, and an even better aim.
Fortunately for the rest of us you are in the right country.

Ah yes, one of the self righteous BlueMoon anointed telling me who I am! Always a fun event!

I'm neither "trigger happy" nor a "simpleton," and I think I might have watched one, maybe two of those Eastwood movies...but then that is irrelevant, isn't it, because you know better.

I certainly do not get a hard on thinking about killing someone in my own home, nor would it give me any pleasure AT ALL. However, I'm not willing to be the hapless victim of a scrote who thinks he can do whatever the fuck he wants to me and my family, either. Guns are prevalent in America, and I'm not going to be able to stop that. If no-one ELSE had one, neither would I. Alas, this Utopia you seek does not exist....even in Jolly Old, so get over your delicate self and realize the REALITY of living in one of the most violent cities in America you knob!

I'd venture the top 3 or 4 stories on LAST NIGHTS CHICAGO newscast were about guns, violence, and death. There is a big bad world out there and there are scrotes and their victims, and there are scrotes who BECOME victims. I know which I prefer and will use my legal rights to ensure I do not become a scrote's victim. Nothing "hard" or "hard on" about it, mate, just being real.

When the day comes, when the intruder has a bigger gun, then I guess we will have to rely on training. However, would YOU prefer that the scrote have a gun and me not? Am I ALLOWED to stop my 17 yr old daughter from being raped in front of me with a gun to her head? Am I ALLOWED to protect my wife from being sodomized for the enjoyment of a vicious scrote who wants to make the point that HE is in charge? What about my 16 year old son, who is built like a little bodybuilder? If the scrote thinks he might be a threat to him, should I sit idly by while he gets murdered?

Again, and S L O W L Y for those who are struggling with the concept of NOT being a victim in your own home, I don't walk around like Dirty Harry, nor do even my closest neighbors even know I am trained to use firearms. I am also trained to know the difference between a threat and a drunk showing up at the wrong house. I do not take my personal responsibility lightly, nor do I push guns or gun culture on ANYONE. In fact, I abhor personal violence. I will never set out to commit it unless I feel my life or that of my family is in danger. Once we reach that threshold, then I CHOOSE not to be the victim.....because in America, most victims end up dead.

Do I like that aspect of society? Not a bit. But, I don't get to MAKE the rules, only live with them. If I could get rid of every gun on the street, I would snap my fingers and do it. There is no great mystery to learning how to shoot a gun, or be very accurate, and it does not make you a man to be able to pull a trigger. However "Dirty Harry" you THINK it is, that is just YOUR prejudice about me from YOUR movie watching, not mine. You don't know me, where I live, or appear to know my rights as a private citizen, but then this is the internet and I'm talking about the stark reality of REAL LIFE, where people DO get raped in their own beds while family members are forced to watch, where kids ARE shot in front of their parents, and where entire families die at the hands of anonymous scrotes looking for shit to sell to get high.

I will end this by saying I have never been in trouble with the law. I have had multiple, detailed FBI background checks and I have been trained to kill by Federal Law Enforcement. I know the difference between fact and fiction, Dirty Harry and the scrote threatening my family. I do not project fear in others, nor do I project fear in myself. I simply go about my daily life causing no-one harm and helping as many people on their way as possible. In many ways, I would be considered a model citizen.

However, thankfully, I, and the society in which I live, draw the line at HAVING TO CHOOSE TO BE A VICTIM OF THE VIOLENCE OF OTHERS. I do not bring violence to the doorstep of others and I do not expect it to be brought to mine. If it is, then all bets are off AND the law is on my side, as long as I fear for my own life or that of a family member. Personally, I think the warning I described earlier provides adequate warning of what is about to happen. If you are the scrote who broke in, then you had better find a way out in a hurry, because one step in my direction and you WILL be put down. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities, but THAT is the law.

BTW, you would be surprise how little B&E we have here! Or maybe you wouldn't?!

Probably very little B&E to hear about because "the top 3 or 4 stories on LAST NIGHTS CHICAGO newscast were about guns, violence, and death". They otherwise engaged bro.

 

[tidyman]

For someone who seems to think the only possible reason that anyone could be disagreeing with you here is because they haven't read all the poets properly, you seem to be suffering from the same fate.

At no point have I said he admitted using a bottle. Although your 100% certainty that he wouldn't lie about it, is a bit odd.

I've just took your words from the opening post about him admitting assault and said, even taking yours/ his version as fact, I don't think 14 months appears unduly harsh.

To be fair, I struggled with Pam Ayres and Benny Hill.

Right, that's it. I've put up with this piss taking for long enough now. One simple predictive text issue and I'm expected to put with this level of abuse?

I've edited my post now and I demand everyone who's quoted it does likewise, or I will forced to punch, headbut but definately not bottle the lot of yer.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

To be fair, I struggled with Pam Ayres and Benny Hill.

Right, that's it. I've put up with this piss taking for long enough now. One simple predictive text issue and I'm expected to put with this level of abuse?

I've edited my post now and I demand everyone who's quoted it does likewise, or I will forced to punch, headbut but definately not bottle the lot of yer.

You may as well bottle me mate, as it'll make fuck all difference to your sentence.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Probably very little B&E to hear about because "the top 3 or 4 stories on LAST NIGHTS CHICAGO newscast were about guns, violence, and death". They otherwise engaged bro.

Astute point! :-)

Also, I don't actually live in the city, or the specific parts of the city where the gun violence predominates.

Virtually all of the daily gun violence is gang and drug related. This does not affect most areas of Chicago.

I took this from a Chicago Crime Blog:

A picture perfect Father’s Day weekend (June 16) calls for a good old-fashioned family BBQ but if you happen to be in certain parts of the South or West sides, it calls for rampant stupidity and violence.

35 people were shot this weekend, resulting in two (2) deaths plus one (1) stabbing.

Last weekend we tallied 34 incidents with four (4) killed and an additional 30 shot and wounded.

A breakdown of the 36 incidents shows:

2 were shot & killed, 1 stabbed
6 left in critical condition
33 dudes/3 chicks
24.4 y/o average age
8 teenagers
18 neighborhoods
3 shot in the ass
7 multi-victim incidents
Japanese airline pilot shot w/ an air rifle on main shopping street

The week of June 8 however ended up being the least violent in a while (cool, wet weather helped), assuming one thinks 6 killed and 49 wounded is not-too-violent.

The record holder for the year is still the week of April 20 which saw 12 killed and 72 wounded.

The week ahead looks to be hot and humid which is never a good combination come 8pm.

 

[tidyman]

Right, that's it. I've put up with this piss taking for long enough now. One simple predictive text issue and I'm expected to put with this level of abuse?

I've edited my post now and I demand everyone who's quoted it does likewise, or I will forced to punch, headbut but definately not bottle the lot of yer.

You may as well bottle me mate, as it'll make fuck all difference to your sentence.

It will to me mate.

I'll happily do 13 months for any **** who pisses me off and gets a deserved kicking.

But no fucker better accuse me of been capable of bottling anyone because it just isn't in my nature.

 

[Cellarite]

Ah yes, one of the self righteous BlueMoon anointed telling me who I am! Always a fun event!

I'm neither "trigger happy" nor a "simpleton," and I think I might have watched one, maybe two of those Eastwood movies...but then that is irrelevant, isn't it, because you know better.

I certainly do not get a hard on thinking about killing someone in my own home, nor would it give me any pleasure AT ALL. However, I'm not willing to be the hapless victim of a scrote who thinks he can do whatever the fuck he wants to me and my family, either. Guns are prevalent in America, and I'm not going to be able to stop that. If no-one ELSE had one, neither would I. Alas, this Utopia you seek does not exist....even in Jolly Old, so get over your delicate self and realize the REALITY of living in one of the most violent cities in America you knob!

I'd venture the top 3 or 4 stories on LAST NIGHTS CHICAGO newscast were about guns, violence, and death. There is a big bad world out there and there are scrotes and their victims, and there are scrotes who BECOME victims. I know which I prefer and will use my legal rights to ensure I do not become a scrote's victim. Nothing "hard" or "hard on" about it, mate, just being real.

When the day comes, when the intruder has a bigger gun, then I guess we will have to rely on training. However, would YOU prefer that the scrote have a gun and me not? Am I ALLOWED to stop my 17 yr old daughter from being raped in front of me with a gun to her head? Am I ALLOWED to protect my wife from being sodomized for the enjoyment of a vicious scrote who wants to make the point that HE is in charge? What about my 16 year old son, who is built like a little bodybuilder? If the scrote thinks he might be a threat to him, should I sit idly by while he gets murdered?

Again, and S L O W L Y for those who are struggling with the concept of NOT being a victim in your own home, I don't walk around like Dirty Harry, nor do even my closest neighbors even know I am trained to use firearms. I am also trained to know the difference between a threat and a drunk showing up at the wrong house. I do not take my personal responsibility lightly, nor do I push guns or gun culture on ANYONE. In fact, I abhor personal violence. I will never set out to commit it unless I feel my life or that of my family is in danger. Once we reach that threshold, then I CHOOSE not to be the victim.....because in America, most victims end up dead.

Do I like that aspect of society? Not a bit. But, I don't get to MAKE the rules, only live with them. If I could get rid of every gun on the street, I would snap my fingers and do it. There is no great mystery to learning how to shoot a gun, or be very accurate, and it does not make you a man to be able to pull a trigger. However "Dirty Harry" you THINK it is, that is just YOUR prejudice about me from YOUR movie watching, not mine. You don't know me, where I live, or appear to know my rights as a private citizen, but then this is the internet and I'm talking about the stark reality of REAL LIFE, where people DO get raped in their own beds while family members are forced to watch, where kids ARE shot in front of their parents, and where entire families die at the hands of anonymous scrotes looking for shit to sell to get high.

I will end this by saying I have never been in trouble with the law. I have had multiple, detailed FBI background checks and I have been trained to kill by Federal Law Enforcement. I know the difference between fact and fiction, Dirty Harry and the scrote threatening my family. I do not project fear in others, nor do I project fear in myself. I simply go about my daily life causing no-one harm and helping as many people on their way as possible. In many ways, I would be considered a model citizen.

However, thankfully, I, and the society in which I live, draw the line at HAVING TO CHOOSE TO BE A VICTIM OF THE VIOLENCE OF OTHERS. I do not bring violence to the doorstep of others and I do not expect it to be brought to mine. If it is, then all bets are off AND the law is on my side, as long as I fear for my own life or that of a family member. Personally, I think the warning I described earlier provides adequate warning of what is about to happen. If you are the scrote who broke in, then you had better find a way out in a hurry, because one step in my direction and you WILL be put down. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities, but THAT is the law.

BTW, you would be surprise how little B&E we have here! Or maybe you wouldn't?!

 

[jimharri]

Damn Kev; you'd better lay off those Gregg's steak bakes!

 

[lloydie]

Right, that's it. I've put up with this piss taking for long enough now. One simple predictive text issue and I'm expected to put with this level of abuse?

I've edited my post now and I demand everyone who's quoted it does likewise, or I will forced to punch, headbut but definately not bottle the lot of yer.

You may as well bottle me mate, as it'll make fuck all difference to your sentence.

It will to me mate.

I'll happily do 13 months for any **** who pisses me off and gets a deserved kicking.

But no fucker better accuse me of been capable of bottling anyone because it just isn't in my nature.

Pfft, doesn't even rhyme.

 

[The Flash]

To be fair, I struggled with Pam Ayres and Benny Hill.

Right, that's it. I've put up with this piss taking for long enough now. One simple predictive text issue and I'm expected to put with this level of abuse?

I've edited my post now and I demand everyone who's quoted it does likewise, or I will forced to punch, headbut but definately not bottle the lot of yer.

Yeah well fuck you maaaan! I gotta muthafucking hand cannon and I'll blow your head cleeeean off if you come at me bro!

An I been trained by the muthafucking LAW!


Murica! Yeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwwww!

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

But no fucker better accuse me of been capable of bottling anyone because it just isn't in my nature.

So you say......

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Yeah well fuck you maaaan! I gotta muthafucking hand cannon and I'll blow your head cleeeean off if you come at me bro!

An I been trained by the muthafucking LAW!


Murica! Yeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwwww!

When you say it like that, it DOES sound silly! :-)

And that pic is of one of the Looney Toons I mentioned!

 

[Cellarite]

I suspect that the penny has dropped and somebody has realised that no matter how many times he explains himself, no matter how many capital letters he uses, every other person on the forum knows that he's wrong.

Now as for Oakie........

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Right, that's it. I've put up with this piss taking for long enough now. One simple predictive text issue and I'm expected to put with this level of abuse?

I've edited my post now and I demand everyone who's quoted it does likewise, or I will forced to punch, headbut but definately not bottle the lot of yer.

Yeah well fuck you maaaan! I gotta muthafucking hand cannon and I'll blow your head cleeeean off if you come at me bro!

An I been trained by the muthafucking LAW!


Murica! Yeeeeeeeehawwwwwwwwwww!

It's the Land Of The Freak, and the Home Of The Braindead.
'I need a big fucking gun, to protect me from other folk with a big fucking gun'.
'But, lot's of folk are getting shot by folks with guns - how can we possibly address this situation?
Maybe stop folks owning guns?'
'No, stupid - we need even more guns...'
And Amerikkkans wonder why others laugh at them.
Joseph Heller is alive and well, and sends his regards.

 

[tidyman]

But no fucker better accuse me of been capable of bottling anyone because it just isn't in my nature.

So you say......

My best mate will back me up.

Mind you, I can him any old shit and he always seems to believe me.

 

[mickfinn]

Would help if we knew what level of assault this lad had been convicted of.

In reality very few ABHs involving defendants with good character end up at Crown Court, the CPS charge at a common assault level so that a costly trial at Crown can be avoided, they can usually justify this if the defendant is likely to receive no more than 6 months custody.

To receive 14 months suggests that the injuries were more serious

 

[oakiecokie]

Anthonys wife has just telephoned us with some good news.The MD of his place of work has promised to keep Anthonys job "open" until he can return,whether that be the full 14 months he serves,or less.This was based on Anthonys exemplary work record,timekeeping etc.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I suspect that the penny has dropped and somebody has realised that no matter how many times he explains himself, no matter how many capital letters he uses, every other person on the forum knows that he's wrong.

Now as for Oakie........

That bullshit doesn't work on me, mate. If you and your mates want to try to act like this is your Forum and what you say goes, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, go for it! I have the right to defend myself and my family against someone who illegally enters my house,with the law and thousands of years of precedent on my side.

Due to work, I live in a society where many criminals arm themselves and there are more guns than people, with a concentration of those firearms with a minority of the population (about 20% of the population own about 65% of the guns, and the USA has more guns than any society in the world. You live in a less violent society where guns are illegal. Big difference.