Bundesliga review part 2. the new one :)

[BayernMan]

Well in a small part it is. It's one thing going for Gotze, who is one of the greatest talents in world football, but going for Lewandowski was just to weaken Dortmund. The same with buying Ballack, Ze Roberto and Lucio. The problem with this is that in the long term it comes back to haunt Bayern. The Bundesliga stops being competitive, star players then leave and then the big names don't want to play in the Bundesliga anymore. Bayern lose TV money, lose pulling power and begin to decline. Why join Bayern when you can join PSG and get more money?

Money is a factor but not the only one, the difference in pedigree between clubs like Bayern and PSG is why top players still join the usual teams like Barca, Man U, RM, and Bayern. Gotze has said that he had many bigger offers but chose to stay move to Bayern. Even Lewa could have easily moved to RM or Chelsea and gotten a much bigger offer yet it seems like Bayern is his destination.

Well Chelsea despite not having much pedigree at the start were already taking players such as Mikel and Robben from United. PSG have signed many of the biggest names in the world and once again beat United for Moura.

The things players tend to look for
- a great chance to win the big trophies
-a glamorous club
-a glamorous location
-high wages
-a competitive league

If Bayern slip back slightly from being the best team in the world, then their appeal is going to drop substantially. Teams like PSG will have a more glamorous city, higher wages and an equal chance of winning trophies. Not to mention TV revenue will be lower than the other clubs. Nobody is going to tune in to watch Bayern win every game.

Like how people tune in to watch RM and Barca win every game?

 

[supercrystal7]

Money is a factor but not the only one, the difference in pedigree between clubs like Bayern and PSG is why top players still join the usual teams like Barca, Man U, RM, and Bayern. Gotze has said that he had many bigger offers but chose to stay move to Bayern. Even Lewa could have easily moved to RM or Chelsea and gotten a much bigger offer yet it seems like Bayern is his destination.

Well Chelsea despite not having much pedigree at the start were already taking players such as Mikel and Robben from United. PSG have signed many of the biggest names in the world and once again beat United for Moura.

The things players tend to look for
- a great chance to win the big trophies
-a glamorous club
-a glamorous location
-high wages
-a competitive league

If Bayern slip back slightly from being the best team in the world, then their appeal is going to drop substantially. Teams like PSG will have a more glamorous city, higher wages and an equal chance of winning trophies. Not to mention TV revenue will be lower than the other clubs. Nobody is going to tune in to watch Bayern win every game.

Like how people tune in to watch RM and Barca win every game?

At least Madrid and Barca have each other and the Premiership is by far the most popular league in the world, in part because it has such competition.

 

[Bembeltown]

Thursday is Euro League time again.

We play in Bordeaux this time around and will be down there with 12000+ fans. Biggest away travelling support ever for the Euro League group stages according to the Uefa.

Will be good! :)

Thats fantastic support in anyones book

Bembeltown,I watched some of your game on BT,apart from the goal was a bit of a yawn but the support was unbelieveable.

What got so many to go and also what was all the Orange about?

I agree with you, the game itself was horrible but well... some people spent 32 hours on the bus for a shit match and if you ask any of them I am pretty sure they would agree with me and tell you that it was worth it. ;)

The reason why so many of our fans went over is that we have a pretty big supporter base and we havent had any form of success in the last 20 years.

We usually were/are relegation fooder, we went down to the 2nd division multiple times and when we got promoted back to the first tier we jumped right into the Euroleague, which many still consider a miracle.
So I guess people just embrace the moment and enjoy the ride while it lasts. With our club you never know where we end up again (currently deep in trouble in the league).

When we played in Nikosia and Tel Aviv we brought over good numbers as well (3000 to 4000), but those clubs only gave us the standard allocation (10% of the capacity or whatever the rules are).

Bordeaux first sent us 4000 tickets which sold within the blink of an eye, so our management asked them if we could have another 4000 and told them that there would be 10000 coming down anyway no matter if they had tickets or not. After talking this with the French authorities they gave us the requested 4000 as the club, as well as the police, wanted to avoid having Frankfurt fans going nuts in the city itself. They thought it would be easier for them to have us all inside the ground.

In total we then had an official allocation of 8000, but many fans meanwhile ordered tickets online or asked French friends/colleagues to get the tickets for them. Thats how we ended up basically invading Bordeaux. And as you know Germans are quite good at this kind of stuff. ;)

In total there were 3 planes going, 70 busses and tons of people on their own with the train, private car etc.

The whole "orange" thingy is basically an old tradition which started when we played Karlsruhe in the 2nd division a couple of years back. Ultras Frankfurt wanted to organize this away trip as "Clockwork Orange" themed and asked everyone to show up in Orange (inside out worn Bomber Jackets at that time) and 90% of the away going fans followed the request.

Every now and then for special away trips the "Clockwork Orange", "Orange Ultras" "Ultra Chaos" motto is brought up again, no matter if it is for Bundesliga matches, the Euroleague or for away matches of the U23 team.

And Bordeaux was definitely as special occassion, so Ultras Frankfurt once more asked everyone to show up in Orange and started to sell Orange Caps during our home matches. Other fanclubs started to come up with their own Orange designs for Hoodies, Flags, Banners etc, so it took off and definitely was an impressive sight to behold yesterday evening.

The whole city was painted Orange, no matter if young or old, Ultra or normal fan, everyone wore Orange. Great feeling of togetherness.
[bigimg]http://eintracht-online.net/galerie/albums/Girondins%20Bordeaux-Eintracht%20Frankfurt13-14/Girondins_Bordeaux-Eintracht_Frankfurt13-14_08.JPG[/bigimg]

After the match even the players wore orange and our manager had one of the orange caps sold by Ultras Frankfurt with him during the press conference.

Most moving moment of the evening was when Armin Veh came over to the away section, grabbed one of the big flags from the Ultras and celebrated with the fans.

He later said in an interview that he had never ever experienced anything like that before and even had tears in his eyes.
[bigimg]https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/996957_10151817702723543_485272423_n.jpg[/bigimg]

Can post some pictures/videos later as well...but first things first...sleeep! haha

 

[Maldeika]

Well in a small part it is. It's one thing going for Gotze, who is one of the greatest talents in world football, but going for Lewandowski was just to weaken Dortmund. The same with buying Ballack, Ze Roberto and Lucio. The problem with this is that in the long term it comes back to haunt Bayern. The Bundesliga stops being competitive, star players then leave and then the big names don't want to play in the Bundesliga anymore. Bayern lose TV money, lose pulling power and begin to decline. Why join Bayern when you can join PSG and get more money?

Actually - star players never wanted to play in the Bundesliga the recent years. The pulling effect of the EPL with the higher wages and the two big spanish clubs are bigger.

Bayern went to Lewandowski before they went for Götze. And Lewandowski was a player that would never have stayed at Dortmund - he wanted away already last year but could not as Kagawa left. So Dortmund would have to live without Lewandowski with or without Bayern - and it does not really matter for the quality of Bayern if the new name in the squad is Lewandowski or if it is another big European forward. Bayern prefers to have foreigners which already know the league and language.

For the Bundesliga it is better that the stars stay in Germany - it is more difficult to attract players from the outside. It is somehow funny that right now a lot of big players would like to get an offer from Bayern when they do not really have the need for any...

You forgot one aspect in all of your criterias why players choose a club - they way a club treats the players. But I guess each player values one or the other criteria more than the other.

If you are not the hardcore Dortmund fan everybody can understand the move of Götze, too. He was somewhat a free agent with a contract with a release clause. He has enough talent and is already on the level that he gets enough match time at Bayern - and I think it is better for his development.

 

[Tbilisi]

Thats fantastic support in anyones book

Bembeltown,I watched some of your game on BT,apart from the goal was a bit of a yawn but the support was unbelieveable.

What got so many to go and also what was all the Orange about?

I agree with you, the game itself was horrible but well... some people spent 32 hours on the bus for a shit match and if you ask any of them I am pretty sure they would agree with me and tell you that it was worth it. ;)

The reason why so many of our fans went over is that we have a pretty big supporter base and we havent had any form of success in the last 20 years.

We usually were/are relegation fooder, we went down to the 2nd division multiple times and when we got promoted back to the first tier we jumped right into the Euroleague, which many still consider a miracle.
So I guess people just embrace the moment and enjoy the ride while it lasts. With our club you never know where we end up again (currently deep in trouble in the league).

When we played in Nikosia and Tel Aviv we brought over good numbers as well (3000 to 4000), but those clubs only gave us the standard allocation (10% of the capacity or whatever the rules are).

Bordeaux first sent us 4000 tickets which sold within the blink of an eye, so our management asked them if we could have another 4000 and told them that there would be 10000 coming down anyway no matter if they had tickets or not. After talking this with the French authorities they gave us the requested 4000 as the club, as well as the police, wanted to avoid having Frankfurt fans going nuts in the city itself. They thought it would be easier for them to have us all inside the ground.

In total we then had an official allocation of 8000, but many fans meanwhile ordered tickets online or asked French friends/colleagues to get the tickets for them. Thats how we ended up basically invading Bordeaux. And as you know Germans are quite good at this kind of stuff. ;)

In total there were 3 planes going, 70 busses and tons of people on their own with the train, private car etc.

The whole "orange" thingy is basically an old tradition which started when we played Karlsruhe in the 2nd division a couple of years back. Ultras Frankfurt wanted to organize this away trip as "Clockwork Orange" themed and asked everyone to show up in Orange (inside out worn Bomber Jackets at that time) and 90% of the away going fans followed the request.

Every now and then for special away trips the "Clockwork Orange", "Orange Ultras" "Ultra Chaos" motto is brought up again, no matter if it is for Bundesliga matches, the Euroleague or for away matches of the U23 team.

And Bordeaux was definitely as special occassion, so Ultras Frankfurt once more asked everyone to show up in Orange and started to sell Orange Caps during our home matches. Other fanclubs started to come up with their own Orange designs for Hoodies, Flags, Banners etc, so it took off and definitely was an impressive sight to behold yesterday evening.

The whole city was painted Orange, no matter if young or old, Ultra or normal fan, everyone wore Orange. Great feeling of togetherness.
[bigimg]http://eintracht-online.net/galerie/albums/Girondins%20Bordeaux-Eintracht%20Frankfurt13-14/Girondins_Bordeaux-Eintracht_Frankfurt13-14_08.JPG[/bigimg]

After the match even the players wore orange and our manager had one of the orange caps sold by Ultras Frankfurt with him during the press conference.

Most moving moment of the evening was when Armin Veh came over to the away section, grabbed one of the big flags from the Ultras and celebrated with the fans.

He later said in an interview that he had never ever experienced anything like that before and even had tears in his eyes.
[bigimg]https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/996957_10151817702723543_485272423_n.jpg[/bigimg]

Can post some pictures/videos later as well...but first things first...sleeep! haha

That a brilliant and informative post Bembletown,thanks.

I know Frankfurt have great fans,I think they are like City used to be.Unfortunately I think City need a lot more to get our new breed of fans excited nowadays,spoilt I think.

Think its great that your fans get excited by Europa,its a trophy,its not all about money,refreshing to see.

 

[supercrystal7]

Actually - star players never wanted to play in the Bundesliga the recent years. The pulling effect of the EPL with the higher wages and the two big spanish clubs are bigger.

Yet with the recent success of Bayern Munich and Dortmund that has all changed. It seems to me Germany does not appreciate this change. As things stand a lot of big players would be happy to play in the Bundesliga.

Bayern went to Lewandowski before they went for Götze. And Lewandowski was a player that would never have stayed at Dortmund - he wanted away already last year but could not as Kagawa left. So Dortmund would have to live without Lewandowski with or without Bayern - and it does not really matter for the quality of Bayern if the new name in the squad is Lewandowski or if it is another big European forward. Bayern prefers to have foreigners which already know the league and language.

Bayern are in a position of strength and don't need a player to adjust immediately to the Bundesliga. They have the luxury of allowing them time to settle in. Whether Lewandowski would have stayed at Dortmund without the Bayern interest is impossible to know, but that does not change Bayern wanting him in part to weaken Dortmund. There are at least 10 strikers around the world as good or better than Lewandowski.

For the Bundesliga it is better that the stars stay in Germany - it is more difficult to attract players from the outside. It is somehow funny that right now a lot of big players would like to get an offer from Bayern when they do not really have the need for any...

Again this was the past, but it is not the current climate. At the start of the season all the Bundesliga clubs were incredibly respected and viewed as desirable locations. Leverkusen's and Schalkes dire showing in the CL, has come as a big surprise to many people.

You forgot one aspect in all of your criterias why players choose a club - they way a club treats the players. But I guess each player values one or the other criteria more than the other.

If you are not the hardcore Dortmund fan everybody can understand the move of Götze, too. He was somewhat a free agent with a contract with a release clause. He has enough talent and is already on the level that he gets enough match time at Bayern - and I think it is better for his development.

I disagree with this. Nobody at all can understand why Gotze left as Hummels himself said. Unless he really was a passionate Bayern fan then the only reason was money. Gotze is a rare talent and is likely to become the no1 player in the world. With Gotze at Dortmund they would have been 2 favourites for the CL. Klopp has shown the ability to develop youngsters very. In fact Klopp has already brought through and developed more youngsters than Guardiola. Guardiola only really brought through Pedro and Buschets and to some extent Pique. Klopp on the other hand has seen the development of Goetze, Hummels, Sahin, Kagawa and Gundogan.

There is no doubt that Bayern actively target their rivals to weaken them, but the German clubs deserve a huge part of the blame themselves. Why are clubs like Schalke, Dortmund and Werden Bremen holding onto players who won't sign new contracts? If a player won't sign an extension going into his last 2 years he should be sold. It's embarrassing that in recent years they have lost tens of millions on players by letting them run down their contract. Ozil went for £12 million, Kagawa for around 17 million, Holtby 1 million, Khedira 12 million etc. Yet they have still not learnt their lesson. Lewandowski is going for free and Gundogan has been allowed to run down his contract to just one year.

On the football was a poor game between Hamburg and Wolfsburg today, but Hamburg should have won. Missed so many chances. Arnold was not great today and did not really get involved. Lasoga has a bigger impact. Both goals came from very poor decisions from the ref.

 

[BayernMan]

Management is where the BuLi is weak in my opinion.

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

Thats fantastic support in anyones book

Bembeltown,I watched some of your game on BT,apart from the goal was a bit of a yawn but the support was unbelieveable.

What got so many to go and also what was all the Orange about?

I agree with you, the game itself was horrible but well... some people spent 32 hours on the bus for a shit match and if you ask any of them I am pretty sure they would agree with me and tell you that it was worth it. ;)

The reason why so many of our fans went over is that we have a pretty big supporter base and we havent had any form of success in the last 20 years.

We usually were/are relegation fooder, we went down to the 2nd division multiple times and when we got promoted back to the first tier we jumped right into the Euroleague, which many still consider a miracle.
So I guess people just embrace the moment and enjoy the ride while it lasts. With our club you never know where we end up again (currently deep in trouble in the league).

When we played in Nikosia and Tel Aviv we brought over good numbers as well (3000 to 4000), but those clubs only gave us the standard allocation (10% of the capacity or whatever the rules are).

Bordeaux first sent us 4000 tickets which sold within the blink of an eye, so our management asked them if we could have another 4000 and told them that there would be 10000 coming down anyway no matter if they had tickets or not. After talking this with the French authorities they gave us the requested 4000 as the club, as well as the police, wanted to avoid having Frankfurt fans going nuts in the city itself. They thought it would be easier for them to have us all inside the ground.

In total we then had an official allocation of 8000, but many fans meanwhile ordered tickets online or asked French friends/colleagues to get the tickets for them. Thats how we ended up basically invading Bordeaux. And as you know Germans are quite good at this kind of stuff. ;)

In total there were 3 planes going, 70 busses and tons of people on their own with the train, private car etc.

The whole "orange" thingy is basically an old tradition which started when we played Karlsruhe in the 2nd division a couple of years back. Ultras Frankfurt wanted to organize this away trip as "Clockwork Orange" themed and asked everyone to show up in Orange (inside out worn Bomber Jackets at that time) and 90% of the away going fans followed the request.

Every now and then for special away trips the "Clockwork Orange", "Orange Ultras" "Ultra Chaos" motto is brought up again, no matter if it is for Bundesliga matches, the Euroleague or for away matches of the U23 team.

And Bordeaux was definitely as special occassion, so Ultras Frankfurt once more asked everyone to show up in Orange and started to sell Orange Caps during our home matches. Other fanclubs started to come up with their own Orange designs for Hoodies, Flags, Banners etc, so it took off and definitely was an impressive sight to behold yesterday evening.

The whole city was painted Orange, no matter if young or old, Ultra or normal fan, everyone wore Orange. Great feeling of togetherness.
[bigimg]http://eintracht-online.net/galerie/albums/Girondins%20Bordeaux-Eintracht%20Frankfurt13-14/Girondins_Bordeaux-Eintracht_Frankfurt13-14_08.JPG[/bigimg]

After the match even the players wore orange and our manager had one of the orange caps sold by Ultras Frankfurt with him during the press conference.

Most moving moment of the evening was when Armin Veh came over to the away section, grabbed one of the big flags from the Ultras and celebrated with the fans.

He later said in an interview that he had never ever experienced anything like that before and even had tears in his eyes.
[bigimg]https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/996957_10151817702723543_485272423_n.jpg[/bigimg]

Can post some pictures/videos later as well...but first things first...sleeep! haha

That is fucking class

 

[Bembeltown]

And here is a pretty long video from an amazing night, featuring the walk to the ground, some flares and celebrations before and after the match...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Ig0Ixbq7U&feature=c4-overview&list=UUh1PbbOayb0UCirsgdSTuXw[/youtube]

The ground is really horrible when it comes to acoustics as its basically some sort of bowl without a proper roof and getting to coordinate the fans with the numbers we had wasn´t easy either.

We definitely had better atmosphere, but anyway....a night to remember. :)

@Tiblisi: Could very well be that Frankfurt and City fans have a bit in common. Certainly the omnipresent "Oh lord, we will still somehow manage to fuck this up/Typical us" attitude. ;)

 

[Tbilisi]

And here is a pretty long video from an amazing night, featuring the walk to the ground, some flares and celebrations before and after the match...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0Ig0Ixbq7U&feature=c4-overview&list=UUh1PbbOayb0UCirsgdSTuXw[/youtube]

The ground is really horrible when it comes to acoustics as its basically some sort of bowl without a proper roof and getting to coordinate the fans with the numbers we had wasn´t easy either.

We definitely had better atmosphere, but anyway....a night to remember. :)

@Tiblisi: Could very well be that Frankfurt and City fans have a bit in common. Certainly the omnipresent "Oh lord, we will still somehow manage to fuck this up/Typical us" attitude. ;)

My thoughts exactly!