Bundesliga review

[bayern-flo2]

I'm looking forward to the reactions of Beckenbauer/Rummenigge/Hoeneß towards Red Bullshit if they should become are real threat for Bayern.
Now you can here positive reactions. Like back in the days towards Hoffenheim/Hopp.
But when they should become a real danger, Bayern (Rummenigge/Hoeneß) will fight them and blame all the stuff we already hate. Beckenbauer ('friend' of Hopp and Mateschitz) will still speak positively.

Red Bullshit do have a lot of money and won't give up until they are in the top of the Bundesliga. The will spend and need to spend hundreds of millions of euros to get there.

 

[Innsbruckblue]

@ Ruhr

Interesting that you say Bembel is right, while quietly denouncing my own point of view.
Even if Leverkusen was founded by the workers, it's still a vehicle for the company name. As for the east German clubs, none of the Dynamo clubs existed before WW2, or Cottbus, Rostock, Aue, etc.

You're right tho', once the fans of 'traditional' German clubs have it in their heads that other clubs which don't follow their 'perfect' model are to be feared and hated, there is absolutely no way of trying to make them see the other side, that teams as company vehicles have long existed in German football, and that none of those hated clubs have broken any rules or laws.

This undisguised hatred from people who profess to love the game saddens me.

 

[Ruhr]

Leipzig is one of the birthplaces of german football. The russians ban all football clubs after the war and they had to be refounded under communist conditions and were later be merged by political decisions. Your post created the impression, that east german clubs were founded by companies as a marketing vehicle to promote products.

 

[bayern blade]

F##king hell has war broken out !?

Seriously I have no views one way or the other on the Leipzig debate other than that a city the size of Leipzig needs a big club. YES it should have been Lok, but it isn't and as has been pointed out that had nothing to do with 50+1, RB are just filling the gap.

 

[Ruhr]

financial troubles in german football this season

Bundesliga 2
MSV Duisburg (founding member of the Bundesliga in 1963), no license for next season. Unable to pay their stadium. Fighting at least for a place in League 3 at the moment

League 3
Kickers Offenbach, insolvency, unable to pay for their stadium costs, next year most likely in League 4
Alemannia Aachen, insolvency, next year in League 4
SV Babelsberg, relegated from League 3, could have taken the place of Kickers Offenbach, but are unable because of their debts

League 4
Division north:
VFB Lübeck insolvency
FC Oberneuland insolvency
Division west
Wuppertaler SV insolvency

 

[Falastur]

financial troubles in german football this season

Bundesliga 2
MSV Duisburg (founding member of the Bundesliga in 1963), no license for next season. Unable to pay their stadium. Fighting at least for a place in League 3 at the moment

League 3
Kickers Offenbach, insolvency, unable to pay for their stadium costs, next year most likely in League 4
Alemannia Aachen, insolvency, next year in League 4
SV Babelsberg, relegated from League 3, could have taken the place of Kickers Offenbach, but are unable because of their debts

League 4
Division north:
VFB Lübeck insolvency
FC Oberneuland insolvency
Division west
Wuppertaler SV insolvency

Do fans in Germany do what fans here do when the clubs go bankrupt? i.e. do they start an "AFC <club name>" which buys/rents the old stadium, uses a similar name, re-enters a few leagues further down and claims to be the continuation of the old club? Or once a club goes bankrupt, is it forever gone?

 

[Ruhr]

well, most of these clubs had turned their football team into some sort of a Limited company. So, if this went bankrupt, the original club may still survive. Every german club has a reserve team in the league system (usually two or three leagues lower than the first team). Sometimes they go on at this level then.
A club that goes into insolvency proceedings is automatically relegated, but if they find a financial solution during this proceedings they can go on just one league lower. That is the best case. The worst case is, that the original club is also bankrupt and the insolvency proceedings end with the club is being banned from the register of associations. Then indeed they must refound the club and start at the lowest level (Division 9, 10 or 11, depends in which part of germany you live) and it takes them ages to return (or never).
Happened to VFB Leipzig for example, their fans start a new club with its former GDR name Lokomotive Leipzig at the lowest level and are now in Division 4. Or Hessen Kassel, a Bundesliga 2 side in the 1980s. They had to found a new Hessen Kassel in 1998 and start in Division 8. Now after 15 years they are in Division 4. During the years in lower leagues those clubs usually play on small football grounds owned by the local community like any other amateur club.

 

[Falastur]

well, most of these clubs had turned their football team into some sort of a Limited company. So, if this went bankrupt, the original club may still survive. Every german club has a reserve team in the league system (usually two or three leagues lower than the first team). Sometimes they go on at this level then.
A club that goes into insolvency proceedings is automatically relegated, but if they find a financial solution during this proceedings they can go on just one league lower. That is the best case. The worst case is, that the original club is also bankrupt and the insolvency proceedings end with the club is being banned from the register of associations. Then indeed they must refound the club and start at the lowest level (Division 9, 10 or 11, depends in which part of germany you live) and it takes them ages to return (or never).
Happened to VFB Leipzig for example, their fans start a new club with its former GDR name Lokomotive Leipzig at the lowest level and are now in Division 4. Or Hessen Kassel, a Bundesliga 2 side in the 1980s. They had to found a new Hessen Kassel in 1998 and start in Division 8. Now after 15 years they are in Division 4. During the years in lower leagues those clubs usually play on small football grounds owned by the local community like any other amateur club.

Thanks for the response. That's interesting. I'm surprised it takes them so long to get back up. Here, when an AFC is created and manages to get placed in, say, the 8th or 9th tier, they often rocket back up the leagues for 2-3 years because they have so many more fans that the fans basically flood the new club with money (compared with other clubs which only get maybe 200 fans at a game). I'd have thought that, starting at level 10-11, German clubs with their crazy levels of fan participation would basically be able to keep getting annual promotions due to the extra cash all the way up to, say, level 5.

 

[Ruhr]

oh, the example i mentioned, they are in league 4 for several years now. It is like you said, in the beginning it is quite easy, but from League 5 on you are in the graveyard of tradition. In League 4 and 5 you have a lot of former Bundesliga clubs, small clubs with a local sponsor and the reserve teams of the Bayern, Schalke, Hamburg etc. Most of the time that is where the journey ends.

 

[George Hannah]

well, most of these clubs had turned their football team into some sort of a Limited company. So, if this went bankrupt, the original club may still survive. Every german club has a reserve team in the league system (usually two or three leagues lower than the first team). Sometimes they go on at this level then.
A club that goes into insolvency proceedings is automatically relegated, but if they find a financial solution during this proceedings they can go on just one league lower. That is the best case. The worst case is, that the original club is also bankrupt and the insolvency proceedings end with the club is being banned from the register of associations. Then indeed they must refound the club and start at the lowest level (Division 9, 10 or 11, depends in which part of germany you live) and it takes them ages to return (or never).
Happened to VFB Leipzig for example, their fans start a new club with its former GDR name Lokomotive Leipzig at the lowest level and are now in Division 4. Or Hessen Kassel, a Bundesliga 2 side in the 1980s. They had to found a new Hessen Kassel in 1998 and start in Division 8. Now after 15 years they are in Division 4. During the years in lower leagues those clubs usually play on small football grounds owned by the local community like any other amateur club.

what happens when the reserve teams get promoted to the same league as their first team? Also, what about drawing your own club in the Cup?

I take it there are rules about preventing this sort of thing which actually undermine the whole point of a competitive league.