Buying Success: Discuss

[Bodicoteblue]

don't want to sound cynical or cold hearted but - man united are a club largely built on sympathy

which they exploit shamelessly whenever they can.

Liverpool and Hillsborough.
They learn at the feet of the masters.

 

[FanchesterCity]

I'm going to defend United and LIverpool here.

Of course disasters have knock on effects, and you can garner a lot of support as a result. I'm not going to say tragedies are a good thing, but clubs can benefit from them, as United did. They got world wide sympathy as a result, which certainly could only have helped them gain fans.

Liverpool's slightly different, since Hillsborough happened in the midst of a hooligan era, and in that specific case, they came a cropper as a result of reputation over reality.

If WE had a disaster, be honest, we'd be forever remembering it, and reminding others of it. There's even a thread on here for Foe. It's normal, and natural.

At the risk of offending many - there's a bit of a national culture of remembrance these days - remember this, and that, and mark the passing of this and that - outside of football. We'd be no different and would exhibit pretty much the same behaviour.

Liverpool is a bit more troublesome than United though - due to Heysel. It's just wrong to lump Hillsborough and Heysel together, but it's just as wrong to remember one whilst trying to diminish the memory of the other.

 

[Bodicoteblue]

I'm going to defend United and LIverpool here.

Of course disasters have knock on effects, and you can garner a lot of support as a result. I'm not going to say tragedies are a good thing, but clubs can benefit from them, as United did. They got world wide sympathy as a result, which certainly could only have helped them gain fans.

Liverpool's slightly different, since Hillsborough happened in the midst of a hooligan era, and in that specific case, they came a cropper as a result of reputation over reality.

If WE had a disaster, be honest, we'd be forever remembering it, and reminding others of it. There's even a thread on here for Foe. It's normal, and natural.

At the risk of offending many - there's a bit of a national culture of remembrance these days - remember this, and that, and mark the passing of this and that - outside of football. We'd be no different and would exhibit pretty much the same behaviour.

Liverpool is a bit more troublesome than United though - due to Heysel. It's just wrong to lump Hillsborough and Heysel together, but it's just as wrong to remember one whilst trying to diminish the memory of the other.

I see your point but it's hypothetical about our potential reaction to disaster ( let's hope we never have to prove it )
Foe is a case in point - we don't hang huge banners up at the stadium , we don't light candles en masse for him - we retired his shirt in a dignified manner and got on with it , and we don't use him as a badge of honour ( or tragedy , to labour the metaphor)

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I'm going to defend United and LIverpool here.

Of course disasters have knock on effects, and you can garner a lot of support as a result. I'm not going to say tragedies are a good thing, but clubs can benefit from them, as United did. They got world wide sympathy as a result, which certainly could only have helped them gain fans.

Liverpool's slightly different, since Hillsborough happened in the midst of a hooligan era, and in that specific case, they came a cropper as a result of reputation over reality.

If WE had a disaster, be honest, we'd be forever remembering it, and reminding others of it. There's even a thread on here for Foe. It's normal, and natural.

At the risk of offending many - there's a bit of a national culture of remembrance these days - remember this, and that, and mark the passing of this and that - outside of football. We'd be no different and would exhibit pretty much the same behaviour.

Liverpool is a bit more troublesome than United though - due to Heysel. It's just wrong to lump Hillsborough and Heysel together, but it's just as wrong to remember one whilst trying to diminish the memory of the other.

united and Liverpool have both used Munich and Hillsborough respectively to promote the commercial interests of their clubs to an egregious extent. That is what irritates most people, not because of any sentiments of remembrance from supporters of those clubs.

I'm not sure there's a solution tbh, as both those narratives now lie at the heart of both those clubs' consciousness, but against that aforementioned backdrop, anyone associated with either of those clubs certainly have no right to talk about other clubs' lack of "class", as I know for a fact senior figures within united have done about City for years.

 

[BL2blue]

Some of the responses on here about the Rags suggest fear of their revival and I think it's totally founded. I have put £50 on them at a very good price to win the league next season. If LFC can narrowly miss out on a PL win coming from 7th the previous season then the Rags are better placed next season.

Not being involved in Europe is a massive advantage for the domestic competition. They are paying over the odds for players, but they are very good players and they will have a far better manager than last term, who will also return Van Rapist's dummy back to the pram. I think there's probably more (quality) signings to come.

Of course if they do win it the media won't mention "buying" it or anything else and it will all be PL trophy "coming home" .

 

[goater1978]

They annoy me threads like this.

Why be defensive about the fact we've got loads of money? We have bought success and I for one fucking love it!!

 

[FanchesterCity]

I'm going to defend United and LIverpool here.

Of course disasters have knock on effects, and you can garner a lot of support as a result. I'm not going to say tragedies are a good thing, but clubs can benefit from them, as United did. They got world wide sympathy as a result, which certainly could only have helped them gain fans.

Liverpool's slightly different, since Hillsborough happened in the midst of a hooligan era, and in that specific case, they came a cropper as a result of reputation over reality.

If WE had a disaster, be honest, we'd be forever remembering it, and reminding others of it. There's even a thread on here for Foe. It's normal, and natural.

At the risk of offending many - there's a bit of a national culture of remembrance these days - remember this, and that, and mark the passing of this and that - outside of football. We'd be no different and would exhibit pretty much the same behaviour.

Liverpool is a bit more troublesome than United though - due to Heysel. It's just wrong to lump Hillsborough and Heysel together, but it's just as wrong to remember one whilst trying to diminish the memory of the other.

united and Liverpool have both used Munich and Hillsborough respectively to promote the commercial interests of their clubs to an egregious extent. That is what irritates most people, not because of any sentiments of remembrance from supporters of those clubs.

I'm not sure there's a solution tbh, as both those narratives now lie at the heart of both those clubs' consciousness, but against that aforementioned backdrop, anyone associated with either of those clubs certainly have no right to talk about other clubs' lack of "class", as I know for a fact senior figures within united have done about City for years.

Tricky one that, and as you suggest, there's probably no solution.
Both clubs (United and Liverpool) have hurled insults aplenty at each other, and in fairness, most other clubs (including City) have joined in with the chanting too. Now there's a bit of a public mood swing against such chants (rightly so), but to listen to many of their fans, they'd have you believe they have more 'class'. The largest irony of all is that having suffered tragedy, you'd expect both clubs to the last ones to be chanting, and yet they've done it. Both are now trying to pull the moral high ground in claiming they've stopped, but the others haven't.

I'm no fool, I don't think City fans are any more righteous or classy than any other club, a fan is a fan, and we come in a lot of guises. I just wish other fans could accept they are no more special either.

In my opinion, anybody supporting a PL team is already fairly lucky as a fan, and we're pampered with nice stadia, and decent football, even at their worst, City only spent a season in Div 3. Some fans have to watch Div 4 or non league their entire lives and will NEVER win a trophy. It's EASY to support Liverpool, or United. It's a little harder to support City, and it's a LOT harder to support the lower league teams. United fans of the last 25 years took a very easy option.

 

[FanchesterCity]

We haven't bought success.
We HAVE bought massive improved chances of success, and converted some of those chances into reality.

You can spend millions and still not win (you need only look at us in the late 70s).

But yes, of COURSE our money has made the difference. Only a fool would deny that. It's the blinkered belief that most other winners haven't that beggars belief.

Once in a while, there'll be a team what wins something without a lot of money, but their success isn't sustained. Those are the plucky one offs. The continued success of a team has always been about money, coupled with a little luck and some decent management. We've never had much of any until now, and like buses, all three come at once!

 

[Mr. Aguia]

Some of the responses on here about the Rags suggest fear of their revival and I think it's totally founded. I have put £50 on them at a very good price to win the league next season. If LFC can narrowly miss out on a PL win coming from 7th the previous season then the Rags are better placed next season.

Not being involved in Europe is a massive advantage for the domestic competition. They are paying over the odds for players, but they are very good players and they will have a far better manager than last term, who will also return Van Rapist's dummy back to the pram. I think there's probably more (quality) signings to come.

Of course if they do win it the media won't mention "buying" it or anything else and it will all be PL trophy "coming home" .

Everyone always says how it's a huge advantage yet no club has even won the PL that hasn't been in Europe.

 

[Hart of the Matter]

Some of the responses on here about the Rags suggest fear of their revival and I think it's totally founded. I have put £50 on them at a very good price to win the league next season. If LFC can narrowly miss out on a PL win coming from 7th the previous season then the Rags are better placed next season.

Not being involved in Europe is a massive advantage for the domestic competition. They are paying over the odds for players, but they are very good players and they will have a far better manager than last term, who will also return Van Rapist's dummy back to the pram. I think there's probably more (quality) signings to come.

Of course if they do win it the media won't mention "buying" it or anything else and it will all be PL trophy "coming home" .

Watching the Netherlands play yesterday was just like watching United of old, including the two late winners. The style of play, the diving etc. I expect them to be very strong once more. Spending the cash at this rate is however a high risk strategy. If they do not succeed in getting back in to Europe they have real problems ahead.