can we see some youth please

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

There is an element of truth here but it is a balance. Paying big fees & wages for fringe squad players does not work (see Sinclair / Jovetic etc). You need healthy competition in a squad and that means not having too many big earners sulking in the stands, the best way to get the right numbers but also keep things fresh is to use youth players alongside the senior pros and get the squad dynamics right so you can use them but not rely on them.

Yes they have to be good enough and I don’t think we had a good enough striker to fill in when we needed one this year, Pozo for me has not done enough. But at the same time we have some of the best kids in Europe (i.e Denayer, Lopes) and we will only know if they can make the step up if they are given a chance. See Pogba for an example of getting that wrong. We should be giving the best of our EDS a chance to make it with us, it keeps the squad fresh and can save us £ms.

 

[Centurions]

But we weren't guaranteed top 4 before Spuds so your comment makes no sense.

Mathematically you're right but we were 6 points ahead of Liverpool with a game in hand and only 3 match days left...

According to some on here no youth player can ever play in any game because the risk is too high. Arsenal blooded Fabregas at 17 and started him against United in the Charity Shield, they didn't loan him to Lille/Celtic/PSV for seasons on end until one day he was just "ready" to stroll in to the first team. Rooney/Gerrard examples too, it's about time we blooded some of our own. Is Boyata a better player than Denayer or Rekik? No. Is Lopes a better squad option than a Sinclair or Dzeko/Jovetic who've had shocking seasons? Yes. As Damocles said, we would be better of spending strategically on big first team players and utilising the youth for squad numbers rather than spending millions on squad players like Fernando.

Bang on the money.

Not entirely, people have started to use Lopes, Denayer & Rekik as examples of players who could have played this season. Rekik is probably not good enough for us, Lopes needed a season long loan and Denayer had never played outside the U21's before this season. You can't use hindsight to say they would have played the same for us (having much less game time) as they have for their loan clubs.

The rest of the youth players just weren't ready this season. Next season I'm expecting Lopes, Denayer and Kelechi Iheanacho (not really a youth product I know) to be in the 1st team squad (Lopes doesn't even take up a squad spot) and will be bitterly disappointed if all 3 aren't there.

Like it or not this season was just too early for any of them, next season will be defining.

 

[SilverFox2]

Mathematically you're right but we were 6 points ahead of Liverpool with a game in hand and only 3 match days left...

According to some on here no youth player can ever play in any game because the risk is too high. Arsenal blooded Fabregas at 17 and started him against United in the Charity Shield, they didn't loan him to Lille/Celtic/PSV for seasons on end until one day he was just "ready" to stroll in to the first team. Rooney/Gerrard examples too, it's about time we blooded some of our own. Is Boyata a better player than Denayer or Rekik? No. Is Lopes a better squad option than a Sinclair or Dzeko/Jovetic who've had shocking seasons? Yes. As Damocles said, we would be better of spending strategically on big first team players and utilising the youth for squad numbers rather than spending millions on squad players like Fernando.

Bang on the money.

Not entirely, people have started to use Lopes, Denayer & Rekik as examples of players who could have played this season. Rekik is probably not good enough for us, Lopes needed a season long loan and Denayer had never played outside the U21's before this season. You can't use hindsight to say they would have played the same for us (having much less game time) as they have for their loan clubs.

The rest of the youth players just weren't ready this season. Next season I'm expecting Lopes, Denayer and Kelechi Iheanacho (not really a youth product I know) to be in the 1st team squad (Lopes doesn't even take up a squad spot) and will be bitterly disappointed if all 3 aren't there.

Like it or not this season was just too early for any of them, next season will be defining.

Agree with that Colin but our PL squad in many positions are often indicating that they are not good enough also if we take post Xmas form into consideration.

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

Am I sick and tired of this boring "lets give the kids a chance". It's become an obsession with some posters. Yes it would be wonderful if we had a Messi comin through but we haven't. Point 1. I do not want any risk taking with our trophy challenging just so some of you can get some kudos from blooding a youth player. We are not the MCFC of ten years ago where youth players helped the club overcome its financial shortcomings, the MCFC now is in the business of winning trophies at every opportunity. Does anyone actually think that the likes of Aguero and Silva and the like came to this club too feel great about themselves because we brought three youth players into the team, no, they came to win trophies on a regular basis. Point 2, our owners would put up with a season like this if we had blood the likes of Denayer etc., no I dont think they would and neither would I. Now I've had a taste of winning I want it all the time, putting young kids in the squad would set us back years, trophy less years. Point 3, can we rid this misconception that Pozo was played out of position in the first team, no he wasn't as anyone who watches the EDS would concur, he has played that position all season for EDS. the fact is he's not quite good enough just like Lee Croft and Dennis Suarez and Willo Flood all of who were championed by fans who never saw them in the youth teams but thought they were good enough for the first team. They just didn't cut it, end of. Point 4, you look at the way Chelsea demolished the best we had to offer last week, physically bigger, technically better, motivated better and they can't get a look in and then why do our lads stand in that equation, do you honestly think that Angelino who got ripped apart by Abrahams would cut it at the moment against even better opposition? Not a chance and I like the kid but he is way off, he's not even in the same ball park as Clichy or Kolarov. No for me, I pay to watch City win things now, I've served my 40 year apprentiship, I want the good times to continue and that means buying the best out there.

Fine if you want us to compete with a 17 man squad, all of them foreign, because that is what we will end up with if the HG issue is not resolved. I can assure you that City, nor any other club, will win things with squad numbers like that.

 

[dasblues]

Am I sick and tired of this boring "lets give the kids a chance". It's become an obsession with some posters. Yes it would be wonderful if we had a Messi comin through but we haven't. Point 1. I do not want any risk taking with our trophy challenging just so some of you can get some kudos from blooding a youth player. We are not the MCFC of ten years ago where youth players helped the club overcome its financial shortcomings, the MCFC now is in the business of winning trophies at every opportunity. Does anyone actually think that the likes of Aguero and Silva and the like came to this club too feel great about themselves because we brought three youth players into the team, no, they came to win trophies on a regular basis. Point 2, our owners would put up with a season like this if we had blood the likes of Denayer etc., no I dont think they would and neither would I. Now I've had a taste of winning I want it all the time, putting young kids in the squad would set us back years, trophy less years. Point 3, can we rid this misconception that Pozo was played out of position in the first team, no he wasn't as anyone who watches the EDS would concur, he has played that position all season for EDS. the fact is he's not quite good enough just like Lee Croft and Dennis Suarez and Willo Flood all of who were championed by fans who never saw them in the youth teams but thought they were good enough for the first team. They just didn't cut it, end of. Point 4, you look at the way Chelsea demolished the best we had to offer last week, physically bigger, technically better, motivated better and they can't get a look in and then why do our lads stand in that equation, do you honestly think that Angelino who got ripped apart by Abrahams would cut it at the moment against even better opposition? Not a chance and I like the kid but he is way off, he's not even in the same ball park as Clichy or Kolarov. No for me, I pay to watch City win things now, I've served my 40 year apprentiship, I want the good times to continue and that means buying the best out there.

This post has made me really angry, where is the sporting merit in continuing to pump money into the first team with the intention of hoovering up trophies year after year. This is the kind of shite that the scum come out with lately now there place at the top table is being threatend, lets just spend more than everyone else to make us feel like the top dogs.

Luckily , with the evidence of massive investment in our accademy , our owners dont hold the same view.

I want to be proud of the achievments of my club , something that will be lacking if we continue down the road of a player recruitment arms race, any team can do that with the backing we have.

 

[RVZ Urmston]

Am I sick and tired of this boring "lets give the kids a chance". It's become an obsession with some posters. Yes it would be wonderful if we had a Messi comin through but we haven't. Point 1. I do not want any risk taking with our trophy challenging just so some of you can get some kudos from blooding a youth player. We are not the MCFC of ten years ago where youth players helped the club overcome its financial shortcomings, the MCFC now is in the business of winning trophies at every opportunity. Does anyone actually think that the likes of Aguero and Silva and the like came to this club too feel great about themselves because we brought three youth players into the team, no, they came to win trophies on a regular basis. Point 2, our owners would put up with a season like this if we had blood the likes of Denayer etc., no I dont think they would and neither would I. Now I've had a taste of winning I want it all the time, putting young kids in the squad would set us back years, trophy less years. Point 3, can we rid this misconception that Pozo was played out of position in the first team, no he wasn't as anyone who watches the EDS would concur, he has played that position all season for EDS. the fact is he's not quite good enough just like Lee Croft and Dennis Suarez and Willo Flood all of who were championed by fans who never saw them in the youth teams but thought they were good enough for the first team. They just didn't cut it, end of. Point 4, you look at the way Chelsea demolished the best we had to offer last week, physically bigger, technically better, motivated better and they can't get a look in and then why do our lads stand in that equation, do you honestly think that Angelino who got ripped apart by Abrahams would cut it at the moment against even better opposition? Not a chance and I like the kid but he is way off, he's not even in the same ball park as Clichy or Kolarov. No for me, I pay to watch City win things now, I've served my 40 year apprentiship, I want the good times to continue and that means buying the best out there.

This post has made me really angry, where is the sporting merit in continuing to pump money into the first team with the intention of hoovering up trophies year after year. This is the kind of shite that the scum come out with lately now there place at the top table is being threatend, lets just spend more than everyone else to make us feel like the top dogs.

Luckily , with the evidence of massive investment in our accademy , our owners dont hold the same view.

I want to be proud of the achievments of my club , something that will be lacking if we continue down the road of a player recruitment arms race, any team can do that with the backing we have.

Ah, so what you want is some kind of environmental trophy free football club where we have five or six local kids playing for the shirt coz the fans can relate to it and we win jack shit every year while other clubs "Hoover" up all the trophies, just so some fans can feel morally superior to other fans. That's all well and good if your mid table without a pot to piss in but I have some news for you friend, we've lined ourselves up with the big boys and no one at the top table pisses about with moral crusades about youth players, sorry Arsenal did and won fuck all until they decided to spend some money in quality and guess what, they start winning trophies.

 

[dasblues]

Am I sick and tired of this boring "lets give the kids a chance". It's become an obsession with some posters. Yes it would be wonderful if we had a Messi comin through but we haven't. Point 1. I do not want any risk taking with our trophy challenging just so some of you can get some kudos from blooding a youth player. We are not the MCFC of ten years ago where youth players helped the club overcome its financial shortcomings, the MCFC now is in the business of winning trophies at every opportunity. Does anyone actually think that the likes of Aguero and Silva and the like came to this club too feel great about themselves because we brought three youth players into the team, no, they came to win trophies on a regular basis. Point 2, our owners would put up with a season like this if we had blood the likes of Denayer etc., no I dont think they would and neither would I. Now I've had a taste of winning I want it all the time, putting young kids in the squad would set us back years, trophy less years. Point 3, can we rid this misconception that Pozo was played out of position in the first team, no he wasn't as anyone who watches the EDS would concur, he has played that position all season for EDS. the fact is he's not quite good enough just like Lee Croft and Dennis Suarez and Willo Flood all of who were championed by fans who never saw them in the youth teams but thought they were good enough for the first team. They just didn't cut it, end of. Point 4, you look at the way Chelsea demolished the best we had to offer last week, physically bigger, technically better, motivated better and they can't get a look in and then why do our lads stand in that equation, do you honestly think that Angelino who got ripped apart by Abrahams would cut it at the moment against even better opposition? Not a chance and I like the kid but he is way off, he's not even in the same ball park as Clichy or Kolarov. No for me, I pay to watch City win things now, I've served my 40 year apprentiship, I want the good times to continue and that means buying the best out there.

This post has made me really angry, where is the sporting merit in continuing to pump money into the first team with the intention of hoovering up trophies year after year. This is the kind of shite that the scum come out with lately now there place at the top table is being threatend, lets just spend more than everyone else to make us feel like the top dogs.

Luckily , with the evidence of massive investment in our accademy , our owners dont hold the same view.

I want to be proud of the achievments of my club , something that will be lacking if we continue down the road of a player recruitment arms race, any team can do that with the backing we have.

Ah, so what you want is some kind of environmental trophy free football club where we have five or six local kids playing for the shirt coz the fans can relate to it and we win jack shit every year while other clubs "Hoover" up all the trophies, just so some fans can feel morally superior to other fans. That's all well and good if your mid table without a pot to piss in but I have some news for you friend, we've lined ourselves up with the big boys and no one at the top table pisses about with moral crusades about youth players, sorry Arsenal did and won fuck all until they decided to spend some money in quality and guess what, they start winning trophies.

So the £200m investment was just some kind of elaborate PR stunt to give off the impression that we are trying to build a self sustaining future for ourselves?

I guess you could argue that it was an FFP allowable marketing expense?

Bayern and Barca dont 'piss' about with youth development do they?

Every one of the four teams in the champions league semi finals has a youth team player in their squad that as played a significant part of their campaign this season:

Juventus
Marchisio

Barca
Messi
Iniesta
Busquets
Pique
(plus various fringe squad players)

Bayern
Lahm
Muller
Alaba
(plus various fringe squad players)

Real Madrid
Carvajal
Jese Rodriguez

So why would they do this? So they can feel morally superior to other clubs? No because it makes sense to try and develop your own players. They provide a symbol to the fans to show what this club is all about, they save the club £m's in transfer fees and they will be loyal and run through brick walls for the team.

Why is Abramovic taking a keen interest in his youth team ? They could just keep throwing money at it , becuase He's not stupid and realises the benefits

Mark my words, if we haven't shown any signs of progress in this area within the next three years there will be a lot of disillusioned fans in the Etihad on a Saturday afternoon, sucess or not

 

[Damocles]

Ah, so what you want is some kind of environmental trophy free football club where we have five or six local kids playing for the shirt coz the fans can relate to it and we win jack shit every year while other clubs "Hoover" up all the trophies, just so some fans can feel morally superior to other fans. That's all well and good if your mid table without a pot to piss in but I have some news for you friend, we've lined ourselves up with the big boys and no one at the top table pisses about with moral crusades about youth players, sorry Arsenal did and won fuck all until they decided to spend some money in quality and guess what, they start winning trophies.

So, in your world, this is a choice between playing 5 or 6 kids in the first XI and being midtable or playing no kids and winning trophies?

Because there is absolutely no sensible middle ground between those two positions.

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

Ah, so what you want is some kind of environmental trophy free football club where we have five or six local kids playing for the shirt coz the fans can relate to it and we win jack shit every year while other clubs "Hoover" up all the trophies, just so some fans can feel morally superior to other fans. That's all well and good if your mid table without a pot to piss in but I have some news for you friend, we've lined ourselves up with the big boys and no one at the top table pisses about with moral crusades about youth players, sorry Arsenal did and won fuck all until they decided to spend some money in quality and guess what, they start winning trophies.

So, in your world, this is a choice between playing 5 or 6 kids in the first XI and being midtable or playing no kids and winning trophies?

Because there is absolutely no sensible middle ground between those two positions.

And yet if we are to remain competitive in either FFP ways or through the squad systems, especially the Champions League version, and bearing in mind this latter competition being the one that Sheikh Mansour is demanding of success, then the development and promotion of club developed talent is the only real option the club has at it's disposal.

 

[Jack Wills]

This post has made me really angry, where is the sporting merit in continuing to pump money into the first team with the intention of hoovering up trophies year after year. This is the kind of shite that the scum come out with lately now there place at the top table is being threatend, lets just spend more than everyone else to make us feel like the top dogs.

Luckily , with the evidence of massive investment in our accademy , our owners dont hold the same view.

I want to be proud of the achievments of my club , something that will be lacking if we continue down the road of a player recruitment arms race, any team can do that with the backing we have.

This post hasn't made me really angry, but I couldn't disagree more. I'm proud of my team whatever, but never more so than when we're smashing chavs & rags and winning 5-1 away at tough places like Spurs. Who gives a fuck about sporting merit if it means the rags win everything because they can sell the most Shrek duvet covers, or Chelsea because Abramovich is a gangster who leans on agents to make sure he gets £20m+ for average squad players.

Fuck them all, our owner has more money than the fucking US Govt let's fucking blow every **** away and win everything, bollocks to Platini, bollocks to the rags and massive fucking monkey bollocks to FFP.

We've been shit on and laughed at by rags long enough, why give the cunts a fair shot now we're in a position to blow them away.