Champions League 15/16 seeding - City CONFIRMED Pot 2 - Pg20

[drthingy]

Re: Champions League 2015/16 seedings - City in pot 2/3?

It's about time they sorted the seeding mess out. At least use a proper fair scoring system like ELO ffs.

Now that's Blue Sky thinking!

Here is the news!

 

[BerkshireBlue]

Re: Champions League 2015/16 seedings - City in pot 2/3?

Up to date coefficients are here:
If the above are cumulative points and they win the Europa QF, SF and Final that is only 3 more points, which isn't enough to get a larger coefficient than us.

I could never work out how the points are actually tallied up after the group stages. They certainly get more points than they state here as the previous winners recieved around the 32 points mark so they must get extra points for winning games as well.

 

[BerkshireBlue]

Re: Champions League 2015/16 seedings - City in pot 2/3?

It's about time they sorted the seeding mess out. At least use a proper fair scoring system like ELO ffs.

Now that's Blue Sky thinking!

Here is the news!

That's a bit Out of the Blue isn't it. Don't bring me Down guys

 

[ftg]

Re: Champions League 2015/16 seedings - City in pot 2/3?

Up to date coefficients are here:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/ ... ings/club/</a>

Up to date figures at the above site have Napoli on 80.355 pts and City on 87.078

The rules for the Europa League indicate:

Since 2009/10, clubs have been guaranteed a minimum of two points if they reach the group stage and are awarded an additional point if they get to the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final.

If the above are cumulative points and they win the Europa QF, SF and Final that is only 3 more points, which isn't enough to get a larger coefficient than us.

Sorry mate, think you're wrong there:

"UEFA Europa League points system
First qualifying round elimination – 0.25 points
Second qualifying round elimination – 0.5 points
Third qualifying round elimination – 1 point
Play-off elimination – 1.5 points
Group stage win – 2 points
Group stage draw – 1 point
Since 2009/10, clubs have been guaranteed a minimum of two points if they reach the group stage and are awarded an additional point if they get to the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final."

Though it doesn't talk about a knockout win/draw, from tallying up clubs points it seems fairly obvious that the same continue from the group stage - i.e., each knockout round win = 2 points and each knockout round draw = 1 point (e.g. The only way Benfica could have amassed ~31 points last season from winning the EL is if the knockout coefficents worked the same as the group coefficients.)

If Napoli win the EL then, they will get at least two points from advancing to the final (+1 point for SF participation and +1 for final participation), plus all the additional points from the remaining games: the QF tie (min. 0 points, max 2, since the worst they can do is lose it), the two SF ties (min 2 points, max 4, because to progress they will have to get at least 2 draws or 1win/1loss) and the final tie (min 1 point, max 2, since they will only get a point if they win on penos).

The minimum amount of extra points they'll gain from winning the EL is therefore 5 points, whilst the maximum is 10. Seems fairly likely they'll jump ahead of us then if they do manage to win the cup.

 

[redmanc34]

Re: Champions League 2015/16 seedings - City in pot 2/3?

13 different winners since 1992,
18 different finalists since 1992

Even the FA cup isn't as open as the Champions League and that is completely random.
How some people can say there is an agenda against City is laughable. Comedy gold actually. I mean why? What would anybody at UEFA gain from that.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Re: Champions League 2015/16 seedings - City in pot 2/3?

Up to date coefficients are here:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/ ... ings/club/</a>

Up to date figures at the above site have Napoli on 80.355 pts and City on 87.078

The rules for the Europa League indicate:

Since 2009/10, clubs have been guaranteed a minimum of two points if they reach the group stage and are awarded an additional point if they get to the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final.

If the above are cumulative points and they win the Europa QF, SF and Final that is only 3 more points, which isn't enough to get a larger coefficient than us.

Sorry mate, think you're wrong there:

"UEFA Europa League points system
First qualifying round elimination – 0.25 points
Second qualifying round elimination – 0.5 points
Third qualifying round elimination – 1 point
Play-off elimination – 1.5 points
Group stage win – 2 points
Group stage draw – 1 point
Since 2009/10, clubs have been guaranteed a minimum of two points if they reach the group stage and are awarded an additional point if they get to the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final."

Though it doesn't talk about a knockout win/draw, from tallying up clubs points it seems fairly obvious that the same continue from the group stage - i.e., each knockout round win = 2 points and each knockout round draw = 1 point (e.g. The only way Benfica could have amassed ~31 points last season from winning the EL is if the knockout coefficents worked the same as the group coefficients.)

If Napoli win the EL then, they will get at least two points from advancing to the final (+1 point for SF participation and +1 for final participation), plus all the additional points from the remaining games: the QF tie (min. 0 points, max 2, since the worst they can do is lose it), the two SF ties (min 2 points, max 4, because to progress they will have to get at least 2 draws or 1win/1loss) and the final tie (min 1 point, max 2, since they will only get a point if they win on penos).

The minimum amount of extra points they'll gain from winning the EL is therefore 5 points, whilst the maximum is 10. Seems fairly likely they'll jump ahead of us then if they do manage to win the cup.

I think the 14/15 points are up to date including Group stages and matches played in previous rounds

 

[BlueAnorak]

Re: Champions League 2015/16 seedings - City in pot 2/3?

Up to date coefficients are here:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/ ... ings/club/</a>

Up to date figures at the above site have Napoli on 80.355 pts and City on 87.078

The rules for the Europa League indicate:


If the above are cumulative points and they win the Europa QF, SF and Final that is only 3 more points, which isn't enough to get a larger coefficient than us.

Sorry mate, think you're wrong there:

"UEFA Europa League points system
First qualifying round elimination – 0.25 points
Second qualifying round elimination – 0.5 points
Third qualifying round elimination – 1 point
Play-off elimination – 1.5 points
Group stage win – 2 points
Group stage draw – 1 point
Since 2009/10, clubs have been guaranteed a minimum of two points if they reach the group stage and are awarded an additional point if they get to the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final."

Though it doesn't talk about a knockout win/draw, from tallying up clubs points it seems fairly obvious that the same continue from the group stage - i.e., each knockout round win = 2 points and each knockout round draw = 1 point (e.g. The only way Benfica could have amassed ~31 points last season from winning the EL is if the knockout coefficents worked the same as the group coefficients.)

If Napoli win the EL then, they will get at least two points from advancing to the final (+1 point for SF participation and +1 for final participation), plus all the additional points from the remaining games: the QF tie (min. 0 points, max 2, since the worst they can do is lose it), the two SF ties (min 2 points, max 4, because to progress they will have to get at least 2 draws or 1win/1loss) and the final tie (min 1 point, max 2, since they will only get a point if they win on penos).

The minimum amount of extra points they'll gain from winning the EL is therefore 5 points, whilst the maximum is 10. Seems fairly likely they'll jump ahead of us then if they do manage to win the cup.

I think the 14/15 points are up to date including Group stages and matches played in previous rounds

Please note the title of the 2nd to last column (14/15) - that is THIS season - so the table INCLUDES points achieved so far this season

 

[ftg]

Re: Champions League 2015/16 seedings - City in pot 2/3?

Sorry mate, think you're wrong there:

"UEFA Europa League points system
First qualifying round elimination – 0.25 points
Second qualifying round elimination – 0.5 points
Third qualifying round elimination – 1 point
Play-off elimination – 1.5 points
Group stage win – 2 points
Group stage draw – 1 point
Since 2009/10, clubs have been guaranteed a minimum of two points if they reach the group stage and are awarded an additional point if they get to the quarter-finals, semi-finals or final."

Though it doesn't talk about a knockout win/draw, from tallying up clubs points it seems fairly obvious that the same continue from the group stage - i.e., each knockout round win = 2 points and each knockout round draw = 1 point (e.g. The only way Benfica could have amassed ~31 points last season from winning the EL is if the knockout coefficents worked the same as the group coefficients.)

If Napoli win the EL then, they will get at least two points from advancing to the final (+1 point for SF participation and +1 for final participation), plus all the additional points from the remaining games: the QF tie (min. 0 points, max 2, since the worst they can do is lose it), the two SF ties (min 2 points, max 4, because to progress they will have to get at least 2 draws or 1win/1loss) and the final tie (min 1 point, max 2, since they will only get a point if they win on penos).

The minimum amount of extra points they'll gain from winning the EL is therefore 5 points, whilst the maximum is 10. Seems fairly likely they'll jump ahead of us then if they do manage to win the cup.

I think the 14/15 points are up to date including Group stages and matches played in previous rounds

Please note the title of the 2nd to last column (14/15) - that is THIS season - so the table INCLUDES points achieved so far this season

That's exactly my point....they will overtake us if the win the EL based on the current points. They have 22.2 points so far this season, due to rise by between 5 and 10 (see my previous post) if they win the thing. Which means they will leapfrog us into 17th place. I don't quite get what isn't clear from my previous post.

 

[TheBlueDune]

Re: Champions League 2015/16 seedings - City in pot 2/3?

13 different winners since 1992,
18 different finalists since 1992

Even the FA cup isn't as open as the Champions League and that is completely random.
How some people can say there is an agenda against City is laughable. Comedy gold actually. I mean why? What would anybody at UEFA gain from that.

13 different winners so must be good for football mustn't it?

The format was introduced and modified to keep the G-14 clubs happy and rich and avoid a breakaway European Super League.
After 1992 it was 12 years until a non G-14 club even reached the CL final - Monaco.
2012 saw the first and only team outside the G-14 to win it, Chelsea.
The last final not to have a G-14 club was 1980. It's only the third time it's happened in over 50 years. Keeping the rich happy.

G-14 was set up in 2000 with 14 clubs initially and 4 more added in 2002. With ECL stitched up they disbanded 2008 after agreeing commercial deals with UEFA & FIFA.

But Chelsea and City came in with a different model to spoil the party so FFP brought in. Too late arguably to stop Chelsea.
PSG were an original G-14 club so no problem there.

 

[Marvin]

Re: Champions League 2015/16 seedings - City in pot 2/3?

13 different winners since 1992,
18 different finalists since 1992

Even the FA cup isn't as open as the Champions League and that is completely random.
How some people can say there is an agenda against City is laughable. Comedy gold actually. I mean why? What would anybody at UEFA gain from that.

13 different winners so must be good for football mustn't it?

The format was introduced and modified to keep the G-14 clubs happy and rich and avoid a breakaway European Super League.
After 1992 it was 12 years until a non G-14 club even reached the CL final - Monaco.
2012 saw the first and only team outside the G-14 to win it, Chelsea.
The last final not to have a G-14 club was 1980. It's only the third time it's happened in over 50 years. Keeping the rich happy.

G-14 was set up in 2000 with 14 clubs initially and 4 more added in 2002. With ECL stitched up they disbanded 2008 after agreeing commercial deals with UEFA & FIFA.

But Chelsea and City came in with a different model to spoil the party so FFP brought in. Too late arguably to stop Chelsea.
PSG were an original G-14 club so no problem there.

I love watching the Champions League football especially at the latter stages unlike a lot of City fans who are set against the competition after our experiences in it. The football from teams like Bayern, and Barca and others is on another level and it's a privilege to see it

At the same time we all know that FFP worked against City and it was deliberately devised by MUFC, Arsenal etc to protect their position from new entrants. How anyone can't see that is beyond me

Regarding the competition, it is a bit predictable. The seeding has meant that the group winners and runners up have been very predictable and even teams like Arsenal who have been quite weak in previous seasons have qualified without difficulty and then gone straight out when the tournament got serious. I think maybe there should be an extra qualifying stage to get rid of some of the weaker teams. Barca, Real Madrid, Bayern, PSG, Chelsea, Dortmund, Arsenal etc are more or less permanent fixtures in the last 16 - basically Pot 1 and 2 seeds.