Chelsea Thread - 2023/24

[ASHCFC]

Typical Pep bingo nonsense that implies Pep is only good because he has the cards stacked in his favour. He's managed City for several years with Zinchenko and Delph playing left back, without a striker, with Nicolas Otamendi and he's done it breaking more records than I can care to mention.

He's the greatest coach in world football because he does the work, thinks innovatively and coaches players to improve. Look at what he got out of Raheem Sterling and compare Foden to Mount as two examples.

There isn't a single player in the City squad that was not attainable by any other team in the league yet it has outperformed ALL the big powerhouse premier league teams who have spent more. He's also out performed every previous elite Premier League team in terms of points acquired. But because he's never been in a relegation battle with Everton there should be questions asked or caveats applied to his achievements? Nonsense of the highest order.

Yeah Messi is the goat but it would be interesting to see how he'd play in goals. He's also never fought in World War One so probably on balance Ricky Lambert is better because he never played for Barcelona or was coached by Pep

No point in actually trying to interpret someone's post fairly when you can instead opt for an 'I love Pep and anyone who says he's not perfect in every way is gonna get my ire' rant, eh?!

All I said is that it would be interesting to see him manage at a club without resources. That's it. Just interesting. And interesting precisely because he IS so good at the top clubs he's managed at. If he wasn't the top coach he is the hypothetical question wouldn't be interesting, would it?

We all think Pep is the best coach of his generation. Maybe ever, but as with most 'best ever' debates it's not easy to define across the ages.

No one is asking questions about his abilities or implying that he's anything other than the world's best coach at this point in time.

Please don't try to frame me as a someone who wishes to detract from Pep's achievements. I'm not up for it. Thanks.

 

[ASHCFC]

Typical Pep bingo nonsense that implies Pep is only good because he has the cards stacked in his favour. He's managed City for several years with Zinchenko and Delph playing left back, without a striker, with Nicolas Otamendi and he's done it breaking more records than I can care to mention.

He's the greatest coach in world football because he does the work, thinks innovatively and coaches players to improve. Look at what he got out of Raheem Sterling and compare Foden to Mount as two examples.

There isn't a single player in the City squad that was not attainable by any other team in the league yet it has outperformed ALL the big powerhouse premier league teams who have spent more. He's also out performed every previous elite Premier League team in terms of points acquired. But because he's never been in a relegation battle with Everton there should be questions asked or caveats applied to his achievements? Nonsense of the highest order.

Yeah Messi is the goat but it would be interesting to see how he'd play in goals. He's also never fought in World War One so probably on balance Ricky Lambert is better because he never played for Barcelona or was coached by Pep

And btw, I absolutely agree with your second and third paragraphs.

The last paragraph is a bit left field, but I get your point. We're not disagreeing.

 

[mrbelfry]

No point in actually trying to interpret someone's post fairly when you can instead opt for an 'I love Pep and anyone who says he's not perfect in every way is gonna get my ire' rant, eh?!

All I said is that it would be interesting to see him manage at a club without resources. That's it. Just interesting. And interesting precisely because he IS so good at the top clubs he's managed at. If he wasn't the top coach he is the hypothetical question wouldn't be interesting, would it?

We all think Pep is the best coach of his generation. Maybe ever, but as with most 'best ever' debates it's not easy to define across the ages.

No one is asking questions about his abilities or implying that he's anything other than the world's best coach at this point in time.

Please don't try to frame me as a someone who wishes to detract from Pep's achievements. I'm not up for it. Thanks.

Nah mate I've interpreted your words fairly. you think you're being objective and fair when you apply caveats to what Pep has done. You say he's the best manager in the world and then add a but. That's not necessary and as City fans we hear this kind of caveat being applied to City all the time.

You questioned his abilities - he's never done it on the trenches, only done it at Barca, Bayern and City. You mention resources etc as if he's gaining an unfair advantage from those things.

There are very few City fans think he's perfect and you have your last champions league win to thank for that. Just get sick of these snide digs against City which then get blamed on us for being over sensitive or weaponised or something.

Imagine if I said "yeah Lampard was one of the finest midfielders of his generation that I was blessed to see but you know he did have two feet. Imagine if he had none. Be an interesting hypothetical right?"

We hear it all the time. Every success story at City comes with caveats. Yeah City got 100 points but it would be impossible not to when you spend all that money. Yeah Haaland scored 50 goals but how much are they paying him off the books. Oil money cheat code cheats.

 

[ASHCFC]

Nah mate I've interpreted your words fairly. you think you're being objective and fair when you apply caveats to what Pep has done. You say he's the best manager in the world and then add a but. That's not necessary and as City fans we hear this kind of caveat being applied to City all the time.

You questioned his abilities - he's never done it on the trenches, only done it at Barca, Bayern and City. You mention resources etc as if he's gaining an unfair advantage from those things.

There are very few City fans think he's perfect and you have your last champions league win to thank for that. Just get sick of these snide digs against City which then get blamed on us for being over sensitive or weaponised or something.

Imagine if I said "yeah Lampard was one of the finest midfielders of his generation that I was blessed to see but you know he did have two feet. Imagine if he had none. Be an interesting hypothetical right?"

We hear it all the time. Every success story at City comes with caveats. Yeah City got 100 points but it would be impossible not to when you spend all that money. Yeah Haaland scored 50 goals but how much are they paying him off the books. Oil money cheat code cheats.

No, you haven't interpreted my post fairly.

You've interpreted what you wanted to to fit your narrative, which for the record I get and I'm sure happens alot, but in my case, you're anger is misplaced.

My original post was actually to defend Poch as a good coach, and nothing more. I guess I should have realised that even an innocent reference to Pep by comparison risked being flamed.

Anyway, if you're looking for someone to argue with in terms of your manager's achievements and standing, I'm not that guy. So, let me say again that your references to Pep's record at City was interesting to read and well said.

However, your analogies need work mate! Messi in goal and Lampard amputated?! Lol.

All good. Sign me up for an 'I love Pep' pin badge - as long as there's no City logo on it [emoji846]

 

[hammocity]

I'm happy with Poch. I believe that it's his coaching that encouraged Raz to get back to what he does best on Sunday, ie taking players on.

It's easy to take a pop at managers who've actually done a superb job at clubs like Southampton and Spurs where the chequebook isn't always on hand.

Pep is the world's best manager by most people's estimation, including mine, but he's achieved that based upon jobs at Barca, Bayern, and now City. He's never been in the trenches.

Would be interesting to see how he'd do without unlimited cash to spend and/or the gravitas/pull of a giant club, but I don't suppose that will ever happen.

Sterling will revert to type, he can’t trap a bag of cement and will end up running down blind alleys trying too hard, he was terrible for us in his latter career but still had an impact in some games but I was happy when he left.

You’re paying him £15m a year and the amortisation is costing you roughly the same, about 8% of your turnover with no CL, good luck with that, we mugged you.

 

[KS55]

Sterling will revert to type, he can’t trap a bag of cement and will end up running down blind alleys trying too hard, he was terrible for us in his latter career but still had an impact in some games but I was happy when he left.

You’re paying him £15m a year and the amortisation is costing you roughly the same, about 8% of your turnover with no CL, good luck with that, we mugged you.

I think he probably just got stale at the end. Best for all concerned that he left. Nice price, though.

 

[SWP's back]

Would be interesting to see how he'd do without unlimited cash to spend and/or the gravitas/pull of a giant club, but I don't suppose that will ever happen.

Oh the irony. FYI, City aren’t even in the top 6 in the PL for net spend over the last six years.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

I'm happy with Poch. I believe that it's his coaching that encouraged Raz to get back to what he does best on Sunday, ie taking players on.

It's easy to take a pop at managers who've actually done a superb job at clubs like Southampton and Spurs where the chequebook isn't always on hand.

Pep is the world's best manager by most people's estimation, including mine, but he's achieved that based upon jobs at Barca, Bayern, and now City. He's never been in the trenches.

Would be interesting to see how he'd do without unlimited cash to spend and/or the gravitas/pull of a giant club, but I don't suppose that will ever happen.

Most managers start at smaller clubs. Peps coaching started at Barcelona B, the board must have been really impressed because he was asked to manage the 1st team. After that Bayern, then obviously City. All a success apart from Bayern missing out on the Champions League. When he leaves City, every top team in the world would be stupid not to try and tempt him to their club.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

We hear it all the time. Every success story at City comes with caveats. Yeah City got 100 points but it would be impossible not to when you spend all that money. Yeah Haaland scored 50 goals but how much are they paying him off the books. Oil money cheat code cheats.

I love it when the caveats rely on each other.

"Anyone would score 50 goals a season with KDB setting them up."

"Anyone would get 20 assists if Erling Haaland was there to finish them off."

It's genuinely the reason why I think City players have been regularly screwed over when it comes to individual awards.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Most managers start at smaller clubs. Peps coaching started at Barcelona B, the board must have been really impressed because he was asked to manage the 1st team.

Yep, he managed them for one season and got them promoted. So that's how he does with a 'small team.'

It's also worth mentioning when people claim that he basically spent his career walking into the top jobs, that he took over a Barcelona that finished 3rd on 67 points and in one season increased this to 87 points and won the league. He took over a City that finished 4th on 66 points, increased this to 3rd and 78 points in his first season, and then dominated the Premier League. Okay, he's hardly had to go into a relegation-threatened Everton, but he's also not been handed the keys to a title winning team like David Moyes.

 

[hammocity]

I'm happy with Poch. I believe that it's his coaching that encouraged Raz to get back to what he does best on Sunday, ie taking players on.

It's easy to take a pop at managers who've actually done a superb job at clubs like Southampton and Spurs where the chequebook isn't always on hand.

Pep is the world's best manager by most people's estimation, including mine, but he's achieved that based upon jobs at Barca, Bayern, and now City. He's never been in the trenches.

Would be interesting to see how he'd do without unlimited cash to spend and/or the gravitas/pull of a giant club, but I don't suppose that will ever happen.

The Governor of the Bank of England Andrew Bailey wouldn’t be asked to manage the Post Office Bank, check his career, he’s had high profile jobs with the BOE until taking the ultimate position on, just like Pep.

 

[mrbelfry]

No, you haven't interpreted my post fairly.

You've interpreted what you wanted to to fit your narrative, which for the record I get and I'm sure happens alot, but in my case, you're anger is misplaced.

My original post was actually to defend Poch as a good coach, and nothing more. I guess I should have realised that even an innocent reference to Pep by comparison risked being flamed.

Anyway, if you're looking for someone to argue with in terms of your manager's achievements and standing, I'm not that guy. So, let me say again that your references to Pep's record at City was interesting to read and well said.

However, your analogies need work mate! Messi in goal and Lampard amputated?! Lol.

All good. Sign me up for an 'I love Pep' pin badge - as long as there's no City logo on it [emoji846]

My analogies were as ridiculous as yours. I don't doubt you rate Pep I'm just railing against the caveats that are applied to his achievements and also against City's. Most managers don't manage most teams so why should a caveat be applied to Pep that is a perfectly normal situation? Pep's never managed in the trenches is a ridiculous thing to say when we've had to win 14 straight games to win a title.

I've never seen anyone apply a caveat to Ferguson. Ferguson was a great manager but he's never done it sober.

Anyway the discussion (not argument) is played out. I was just saying the other day ASHCFC is a good poster but he's only ever done it on bluemoon. It would be an interesting hypothetical to see how he'd post on onevalefan.co.uk

 

[hammocity]

Ha ha, Chav fan on Sky, just after saying they’re buying an 18 year old striker and a goalkeeper from the US league stated they need an attacking midfielder and a striker! So when everyone is fit up front they’ve got Chukwuemeka, Jackson, Nkunku, Jackson plus A.N other and they still have to get shut of Lukaku. Apart from Jackson do you have to have 2 “u’s” in your surname to be a Chelsea striker?

Btw, those 4 strikers cost an aggregate of nearly £200m!

 

[KS55]

My analogies were as ridiculous as yours. I don't doubt you rate Pep I'm just railing against the caveats that are applied to his achievements and also against City's. Most managers don't manage most teams so why should a caveat be applied to Pep that is a perfectly normal situation? Pep's never managed in the trenches is a ridiculous thing to say when we've had to win 14 straight games to win a title.

I've never seen anyone apply a caveat to Ferguson. Ferguson was a great manager but he's never done it sober.

Anyway the discussion (not argument) is played out. I was just saying the other day ASHCFC is a good poster but he's only ever done it on bluemoon. It would be an interesting hypothetical to see how he'd post on onevalefan.co.uk

The Burslem accent is very hard to capture.

 

[ASHCFC]

My analogies were as ridiculous as yours. I don't doubt you rate Pep I'm just railing against the caveats that are applied to his achievements and also against City's. Most managers don't manage most teams so why should a caveat be applied to Pep that is a perfectly normal situation? Pep's never managed in the trenches is a ridiculous thing to say when we've had to win 14 straight games to win a title.

I've never seen anyone apply a caveat to Ferguson. Ferguson was a great manager but he's never done it sober.

Anyway the discussion (not argument) is played out. I was just saying the other day ASHCFC is a good poster but he's only ever done it on bluemoon. It would be an interesting hypothetical to see how he'd post on onevalefan.co.uk

Haha, fair point!

And you're right, not an argument. Apologies.

I think the original mistake was mine in that the subject for me was Poch and his relatively low level experience compared to Pep, but it was ham-fisted and probably deserved the response it got.

It was never my intention to add a caveat/asterisk etc. next to the greatest manager of our generation.

Only an imbecile would do so, and as someone who loves football, to think I've invited that tag for some is a little gutting tbh. I'll try to do better.

Appreciate the tone of your various replies, which are further examples of why I stick around here.

 

[ASHCFC]

Ha ha, Chav fan on Sky, just after saying they’re buying an 18 year old striker and a goalkeeper from the US league stated they need an attacking midfielder and a striker! So when everyone is fit up front they’ve got Chukwuemeka, Jackson, Nkunku, Jackson plus A.N other and they still have to get shut of Lukaku. Apart from Jackson do you have to have 2 “u’s” in your surname to be a Chelsea striker?

Btw, those 4 strikers cost an aggregate of nearly £200m!

Hard to mount a credible argument against your often used 'basket case' tag at this moment [emoji23]

 

[mrbelfry]

Haha, fair point!

And you're right, not an argument. Apologies.

I think the original mistake was mine in that the subject for me was Poch and his relatively low level experience compared to Pep, but it was ham-fisted and probably deserved the response it got.

It was never my intention to add a caveat/asterisk etc. next to the greatest manager of our generation.

Only an imbecile would do so, and as someone who loves football, to think I've invited that tag for some is a little gutting tbh. I'll try to do better.

Appreciate the tone of your various replies, which are further examples of why I stick around here.

I don't think you're an imbecile I just think you are influenced by them :) adding caveats seems to be the norm by most football media so it takes a conscious decision to not be fooled by them. This is why I'm trying to have an open mind about Boehly and Chelsea this season and Ive even made the effort to watch some of your games. I also think you and Vialli are good posters which makes me feel a little warmer to Chelsea.

I've enjoyed watching you play and in particular seeing Raheem have a couple of good games. You got sucker punched by West Ham a couple of times but it can happen. If it keeps happening then you have a problem :)

There is no doubt you have some talent in the squad and seeing how Poch brings it all together will be fascinating. Anyone judging him on his PSG record is being harsh I think. He has enough credit in the bank for me after the work he did at Southampton and Tottenham to believe he can do something interesting at Chelsea. Anyone judging him as a failure if he doesn't win the league when City, Liverpool and Arsenal are in it is misguided. Not sure how your financials are currently but I feel like a Champions League place is necessary and would be a good guage of his achievements whilst bringing some coherency out of the squad

 

[ASHCFC]

I don't think you're an imbecile I just think you are influenced by them :) adding caveats seems to be the norm by most football media so it takes a conscious decision to not be fooled by them. This is why I'm trying to have an open mind about Boehly and Chelsea this season and Ive even made the effort to watch some of your games. I also think you and Vialli are good posters which makes me feel a little warmer to Chelsea.

I've enjoyed watching you play and in particular seeing Raheem have a couple of good games. You got sucker punched by West Ham a couple of times but it can happen. If it keeps happening then you have a problem :)

There is no doubt you have some talent in the squad and seeing how Poch brings it all together will be fascinating. Anyone judging him on his PSG record is being harsh I think. He has enough credit in the bank for me after the work he did at Southampton and Tottenham to believe he can do something interesting at Chelsea. Anyone judging him as a failure if he doesn't win the league when City, Liverpool and Arsenal are in it is misguided. Not sure how your financials are currently but I feel like a Champions League place is necessary and would be a good guage of his achievements whilst bringing some coherency out of the squad

You've pretty much nailed my perspective towards Poch/my club. Appreciated [emoji109]

 

[bennyboy]

You've pretty much nailed my perspective towards Poch/my club. Appreciated [emoji109]

Poch will not have a better chance to become a great manager.
If he cannot win anything at Chelsea where can he.
PSG might as well be Celtic so I'm not counting them.
He was a success at Spurs but won nowt.
Interesting time for him.

 

[Xhavenjoe]

Mudryk looks like a Caucasian Adama Traore

Messi is the G.O.A.T and Mudryk is the C.A.T