City and Religion

[pauldominic]

I've been speaking to some relatives who are extremely long term City fans over the Xmas period, and my Dad, my Dad's Dad, my Mum's Dad and my Mum's older brother have all seperately said to me that there used to be a large religious divide between the Manchester Clubs and City were seen as the Protestants whilst United were the Catholics.

Whilst I've always heard this knocked about, does anybody have any idea if there was a real split or if it was one of those urban legends that got around?

Correct Damo.

City were established in their first form as St Mark's West Gorton.

My educated guess is that United were originally formed by Irish Navvies who came to build the L&Y Railway which for all I know could explain the long term relationship to Ireland.

 

[pauldominic]

Having once written an article on this i can tell you there are few real links but some extremely tentative ones. The most obvious one is the fact that city were started by a Protestant church, Gorton st marks. But I think more of it come from united's popularity with the Irish, and their immigrants. Bizarrely I believe Ireland's love affair with united has many of its roots with George best who was a hero to caholics even though he was Protestant. Many of Manchester and the north west's big catholic population( of which I'm one) have Irish roots and therefore a loose connection has been made between united and Catholicism. United fostered some cod-relationship with celtic in the 70s and 80s too.City's Protestant links are tentative and a reaction to that really. I suspect there are some historical geographical facts from before the slum clearances which could have had influence too. I know Salford has a big Irish population. A lot of the Jewish population have always followed city too for some reason. The main stand in the 70s was half full of Jewish blokes in sheepskins smoking cigars.

Newton Heath, who became Manchester United, were formed by Irish navvies working on the railways as I understood it. Hence the Catholic roots. I'm not sure about Jewish support in the 40's and 50's but I've always thought that the Jewish community is pretty well split 50/50 between us and them.

Cheers PB - thought so.

 

[newtownardsblues]

Gary,

City's early boardroom influences were more political than religious. However this did have some sectarian undertones as the Conservatives were the party of the Church of England and the Liberals were the party of Non-conformists and Roman Catholics. From the 1880s onwards Irish issues also became important in British politics with the Liberals supporting Irish Home Rule and the Conservatives the Union.

As you point out AJ Balfour was also a Vice President at United, however Liberal MPs were also Vice-Presidents at United, whereas City appeared to be more exclusively Conservative. Tom Maley even appeared on a platform supporting City chairman, John E Chapman, when he stood as a Conservative councillor. Quite remarkable given Maley's Irish Nationalist sympathies, but of course it is always wise to support your boss.

 

[Anonymous]

Thankfully, we have a very nice Muslim running the club now.

 

[BrianW]

I think it's important to understand that sectarianism was more important in the (now distant) past than it is now in Manchester. My mother used to talk about the fights (when she was a kid in the 1920s) between 'Cat Licks' and 'Proddy Dogs'. My father and grandfather were always of the opinion that City were the Protestant team - whatever that means. Not that they made much of it though - neither had anything against Catholics.

Liverpool (the city) was run by the Conservatives for years, not because scousers were all raving capitalists, but because they were the party of 'Unionism'. (As opposed to trades unionism!). Sectarianism was by no means confined to Scotland and Ireland in those days.

So I think there is an underlying truth in these stories, but it's ancient history now. Like City playing in Ardwick and United in Newton Heath. We don't any more.

 

[MaineStandMoaner]

There's always been tenuous links between City & Rangers (and likewise United & Celtic) so I think there's something in it. Not been an issue in my lifetime though, I know as many Catholic Blues as I know Protestant City fans.

The Rangers/Celtic chants were very common during the 70`s...with the Rangers being considerably louder. Not sure if my mind is playing tricks with me but I think that at half time the announcer always gave the Rangers half time score too, over the tannoys.

 

[Zin 'messiah' Zimmer]

I think it is generally a myth that has stuck

All my Rangers side of the family have allegiance to city, the celts reds, but with any jock they take it too far, at Tolms wedding simply the best came on from the pleb of a DJ and the whole dance floor parted like the red sea, obviously moses here was in the middle, what i found rather strange though was the way it transcended the rangers/celtic rivalry and the blues/reds aligned themselves with relevant parties, obviously Tolm was mortified it being his 'big' day and i believe he still has a banning order in Prestbury!!!!

 

[sir baconface]

I remember hearing in the 60s or 70s that the rags were "a Catholic club". They tended to sign more players from (potentially) RC areas like Ireland and Glasgow but I don't know if it went any further than that. I don't recall it being a reason to support one club or the other.

Locally, this sort of thing wasn't a big issue. Not in my circles anyway. I wouldn't have known - let alone cared - if my mates were Protestant or Catholic. I always had trouble understanding why something so trivial mattered so much in Northern Ireland.

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

At the age of 7 (1970) I asked my grandad why we were City fans and he said ''because we are protestants''.
I then had to ask him what one of them was!

I also recall the Celtic / Rangers chants and the stupid half and half ski hats of the early 80's.
At The Swamp there was never a Rag / Rangers hat!

I also read in the Bert Trautmann book where the Jewish community (up in arms that City had signed a Nazi) generally supported City as protestantism was the lesser of the two evils!

 

[Anonymous]

As Gary has pointed out previously, our earliest success was in small part due to a number of Catholics at the club. If we were a club that was aligned with a particular religion, it's highly improbable we would have hired Tom Maley.

Manchester City was not and is not a Protestant club.

Manchester City was not and is not a Catholic club.

Manchester City was, is and ever shall be a Football club.