City and Religion

[oakiecokie]

Having once written an article on this i can tell you there are few real links but some extremely tentative ones. The most obvious one is the fact that city were started by a Protestant church, Gorton st marks. But I think more of it come from united's popularity with the Irish, and their immigrants. Bizarrely I believe Ireland's love affair with united has many of its roots with George best who was a hero to caholics even though he was Protestant. Many of Manchester and the north west's big catholic population( of which I'm one) have Irish roots and therefore a loose connection has been made between united and Catholicism. United fostered some cod-relationship with celtic in the 70s and 80s too.City's Protestant links are tentative and a reaction to that really. I suspect there are some historical geographical facts from before the slum clearances which could have had influence too. I know Salford has a big Irish population. A lot of the Jewish population have always followed city too for some reason. The main stand in the 70s was half full of Jewish blokes in sheepskins smoking cigars.

Newton Heath, who became Manchester United, were formed by Irish navvies working on the railways as I understood it. Hence the Catholic roots. I'm not sure about Jewish support in the 40's and 50's but I've always thought that the Jewish community is pretty well split 50/50 between us and them.

Sorry PB not having that at all.A Jew would accept a 50/50 split ??? No way ! ;)

 

[Mad Eyed Screamer]

As Gary has pointed out previously, our earliest success was in small part due to a number of Catholics at the club. If we were a club that was aligned with a particular religion, it's highly improbable we would have hired Tom Maley.

Manchester City was not and is not a Protestant club.

Manchester City was not and is not a Catholic club.

Manchester City was, is and ever shall be a Football club.

Correct - the club has never aligned itself to one religion - but that's not to deny that the clubs' fans may have been predominantly from one religion or the other.
Spurs are not a Jewish club but there is no denying that a good deal of their fans are Jewish, far more than appear to support other London clubs, in the same way Greeks in north London appear to align themselves to Arsenal.

I met my now best mate on the Kippax in 1980 (introduced by a mutual friend), he's a Catholic and I'm a proddy, never ever had an issue with it.

 

[newtownardsblues]

Tom Maley, held Irish Nationalist views, however as yet I have been unable to find any reference to him speaking at Irish Nationalist meetings in Manchester while he was at City. The only reference I have found of him speaking at a political meeting was in October 1904 when he spoke in favour of John E Chapman, City director and Chairman, who stood in Ardwick ward as a candidate for the Conservatives. The Conservative influence in the City boardroom of that period seems to have been dominant.

John Allison was involved with City and Adwick for a number of years but was forced off the Ardwick board for a time when Stephen Chesters Thompson was the dominant figure. Allison was unpopular with Billy Meredith. Edward Hulton only remained at the club for a short time, as he didnt get his way with the move away from Hyde Road due to the influence of Chesters Brewery.

Nearly every City and Ardwick director whose political views I have been able to determine were Conservatives.

 

[Anonymous]

Well, that's me taking down my Che Guevara poster and replacing it with one of Maggie.

As an Englishman and humanist, the thought of anyone bringing any kind of religious slant as to the club I support is frankly disgusting and anathema.

I refer you to my earlier post:

We are not a protestant club.

We are not a catholic club.

We are Manchester City Football Club. "Football" the operative word.

If you are looking for religion in Manchester city, I suggest the cathedral or some such place of worship.

 

[newtownardsblues]

City have always had supporters, players and directors of all different religions, and as has been pointed out they are of course primarily a football club, however the original post asked why City were perceived as being a Protestant club and United a Catholic one. In my posts I have tried to give some historic facts as to why this perception exists, and I have pointed out that the early dominant influence in City boardroom was more political than religious, however in early 20th century Lancashire this did have some religious undertones. I personally don't think that it is something to get too worked up over, and certainly in early 21st century Manchester it hardly as any real relevance.

 

[BlueDestiny]

First post but been reading the site for years so go easy . . .

Great thread.

I went to an catholic school and am nominally catholic. That said, I am not religious and had a protestant grandfather.

In my own experience, think it's fair to say that the rags created and perpetuated this myth (Busby in particular) that they are some sort of equivalent of Celtic. While City does have a limited conservative / union aspec t, it's exactly that - limited. An open club for all creeds and colours. A cursory review of our eventful history shows that.

Interestingly enough, Hilary Mantel of Wolf Hall fame grew up near Romiley. In one of her early novels or her autobiography (can't remember which) she makes some reference to 2 little girls saying that City is Protestant and United Catholic.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't think we have ever really been a 'religious' club , and certainly i've not known the club to come out and ever affix themselves to one religious belief or another ... but we did mingle and drink with Rangers fans back in the early-mid 70's as we returned to Manchester from a game at Leeds , and rumours probably evolved from there ..... and that DID happen because i was on that returning train , and i saw it happen .

You often saw City fans wearing 'half City , half Rangers' hats and scarves in subsequent years ..... and there are rumours that some of their fans think of us as their 'second team' ... although other rumours appear to suggest a possible Rangers affinity with Chelsea.

But aside from that i've never seen anything to suggest that City are a religious club in any way , shape, or form .....

 

[Anonymous]

City have always had supporters, players and directors of all different religions, and as has been pointed out they are of course primarily a football club, however the original post asked why City were perceived as being a Protestant club and United a Catholic one. In my posts I have tried to give some historic facts as to why this perception exists, and I have pointed out that the early dominant influence in City boardroom was more political than religious, however in early 20th century Lancashire this did have some religious undertones. I personally don't think that it is something to get too worked up over, and certainly in early 21st century Manchester it hardly as any real relevance.

I think it is something to get worked up about given the part religion, or rather Protestantism/Catholicism, has played in the abomination that is the Old Firm and the absolutely horrific nonsense perpetrated in Northern Ireland.

You have given some facts, but not the whole picture, but at least you admit it is a perception rather than a reality.

I hear we have never had a chariman who imported noodles from Nangking. Clearly shows an anti-Chinese bias at Manchester City.

 

[tonycoleman]

d's pn. The main stand in the 70s was half full of Jewish blokes in sheepskins smoking cigars.

So was the Platt Lane !!

and Swales too who looked more Jewish even though he wasnt

 

[lancs blue]

Grew up as a catholic kid in the 60s, went to a catholic school (Xaverian) and nobody ever told me or any of the other catholic blues I knew that we should be rags because we were catholics. Load of bollocks if you ask me.