City v Chelsea post match

[BillyShears]

Pre season, with players suitable to do the job.

We should have dropped deeper v Middlesborough when 1-0 , but we went tits out for a second when we didn't need to and the rest is history-I totally get the attacking side of the argument with suitable players who are fit, motivated and technically good enough to do it then yes it will work but not with Otimendi, Kolorov, Zabba or Clichy as defenders-and for the record we have the best manager around to implement it -and we will.

We don't even look like a Pep team of late Billy, be great to hear your angle on it.

For an hour on Saturday not only was that a classic Pep team, but the game itself was probably the highest level PL match i've seen in years.

Pep isn't going to change. He isn't going to compromise the way his teams set up. Every aspect will remain consistent. Build from the back. High defensive line. High risk high possession high pressing football. We pressed Chelsea into so many mistakes at the weekend. They're lucky that it score wasn't 3 or 4 nil by the time we conceded. That's kinda the point which seems to be TOTALLY lost on you and a few others. It isn't the defending that is costing us, it's the attack. A Pep defence will always be vulnerable to certain counter attacks. This is being amplified by the quality of players he has. But even with that in mind, we take 50% of the clear cut chances we've made against Chelsea, Boro, Everton, Southampton, and we bury all those teams and take maximum points.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

Most of the media I have noticed seem to have the same view as myself. We were the better team for an hour failed to take our chances then our suspect defence was "torn apart" and then in anger borne out of frustration we imploded at the end. Not sure Willy would have saved those shots but you would fancy that Joe might have got to one or two. Can't really blame the keeper for crap defending in front of him. With all the excitement after the break it has largely been over looked that schoolboy errors in the first half at the back almost gifted them 2 goals that would have undid all our hard work to get our noses in front.

The stick Bravo has taken since Saturday has baffled me. Mind you it shouldn't surprise me, as I mentioned in the Bravo Performance thread last week, I was shocked by what I was hearing around me at Burnley last week. I was even hearing him get some grief when he was making saves. I think it is clear that for some fans he will always be the fall guy in any and every situation.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

Exactly the reason why it's madness for people to be judging him already, he hasn't even finished the foundation yet and some are expecting the roof to be on already?

There's a reason why he feels a three year cycle is required, enough time to get the right players and for them to peak on his philosophy

Patience is key, it was never going to easy, especially with the Chavs and Dippers not playing European football this season......

I like to think that people may be concerned about some things currently but that by and large most are still very confident that Pep is a man who will get it right sooner rather than later.

 

[flb]

Come on, this isn't even an argument. It's barely even a sentence. It's a rant.

You admit we don't have the personnel, despite what Pep planned in the summer, in our back four. Yet at the same time, you complain there's not enough pace at the back. This is Pep's fault. Bizarre.



Nice taking down the strawman there mate.



We've seen plenty of Maffeo and Angelino, where have you been?

News flash: two 19 year olds, who are the perfect age to be training under Pep and learning his system, won't be regular contributors to a team in our position.

Of course, you only want something to blame Pep for. This isn't even the Pep Guardiola thread and somehow you've managed to vomit the same turgid bile on here as there. It's stupid, mindless and completely divorced from reality.

Think you need to calm down a little,how dare any fan question whats happening on the pitch-who the fuck do you think you are, the mayors son? If you have read the past half a dozen pages or so then there has been some decent debate from fans about the current team situation and tactics.

Tell me as ive obviously missed it when did Maffeo and Angelino get a decent run of first team football at City?

 

[BillyShears]

Just because missing chances is also a problem (and I concede that it is probably the biggest problem) it doesn't mean that the press isn't a problem. For me the whole thing defensively depends on us pressing effectively high up the pitch. Missing chances or taking chances, if we press effectively we will be a much better team. If we don't sort the press, we will buy a whole new defence and I am convinced that people on here will be saying we need a new load of defenders a year later. As always, it's only my opinion and I don't profess to be an expert on tactics like some on here, I just say what I see as it were.

I'll just reiterate. Our problem at home against all the teams we've dropped points against is our profligacy in front of goal. You admit yourself that it's probably our biggest problem right now.

So why then is every thread about the Chelsea game chatting about pressing, and defending, and dropping the defensive line deeper. It's almost as if some people have already forgotten who the manager is and what his beliefs are.

KDB buries his open goal we win. Aguero takes one of his countless clear chances we win. The ref gives one of the two nailed on pens, we win. This is all about goal scoring and how when we don't get the goals, mentally we become brittle, and inevitably we conced when pressure is brought to bare. The best way to cut that out isn't by defending deeper or by "playing to the strengths" of our worst players, it's by working on our finishing and composure in training.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

For an hour on Saturday not only was that a classic Pep team, but the game itself was probably the highest level PL match i've seen in years.

Pep isn't going to change. He isn't going to compromise the way his teams set up. Every aspect will remain consistent. Build from the back. High defensive line. High risk high possession high pressing football. We pressed Chelsea into so many mistakes at the weekend. They're lucky that it score wasn't 3 or 4 nil by the time we conceded. That's kinda the point which seems to be TOTALLY lost on you and a few others. It isn't the defending that is costing us, it's the attack. A Pep defence will always be vulnerable to certain counter attacks. This is being amplified by the quality of players he has. But even with that in mind, we take 50% of the clear cut chances we've made against Chelsea, Boro, Everton, Southampton, and we bury all those teams and take maximum points.

Just out of interest, what do you put the terrible conversion rate of chances down to. Do you reckon it is just bad luck or is there more to it?

 

[BillyShears]

Not sure the same 11 is a good idea (in fact i know its not) but i would like to see a solid centre half pairing play together most of the time. Knowing what your team mate is gonna do because of familiarity can be worth its weight in gold.

Yeah that i'll definitely go along with. The chopping and changing of centre halves is a bit nuts. But then I suspect that he does't fully trust Otamendi or Kolarov but also knows that Stones can't play every minute of every game. Will take another summer transfer window to fix that part of the pitch. IN the meantime I reckon we will continue to see it being rotated like mad.

 

[kaz7]

PEP: Chelsea played good. We created an unbelievable amount of chances against one of the best teams in Europe
PEP: In general I am satisfied. We analyse the result, they won congratulations, but we played well. Today we do not finish our season.

 

[caseball]

Isnt that because the inevitable has happened? Opponents are coming up with ways of playing against us (starting with the Spurs game). Its not that the players are deliberately not playing as they did at the start of the season. Its that opponents are better at trying to stop us and some of our players arent good enough to impose our game plan on them.

The thing about the full backs moving into midfield is a classic example. It had that element of surprise at first, confused opponents. But I think Pep realised that the full backs are not really good enough in that role and once that element of surprise was lost he ditched it.

Yeah, I think he only does that when Zabba's in the team.
His style's taking a hammering in a way. Mainly because Bravo's had to curb it.
He has to match his style to his players and I'm not sure he's comfortable with it.
Let's hope Cheeky can spot a full back better than he can a centre back

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I disagree slightly in that i don't think it's as black and white as that we simply stopped playing Pep football a few weeks ago. I think that have since the first game of the season struggled to play for 90 minutes the Pep way. We seem to fluctuate between only managing it for 10/20 minutes in really bad games, and getting to almost an hour in our best games.

However for me if we're talking about Saturday, we lost because we continue to not be able to finish teams off when we're creating chances and are on top of the contest. In this league nearly everyone has a match winner in their squad so a one goal lead, hell a two goal lead, isn't 'safe'. Nobody would've bet on Kun/KDB missing the number of chances that they have missed in the last month or two. Those two need their killer instinct back asap. We need to defend better there's no doubt that our problems begin and end with our attackers being woefully short of form.

For all those pragmatists who think that the solution is to get a goal head and then retreat and hold on. This City side has shown time and time again that the one thing it can't do is hold onto a result when being put under pressure. Therefore makes far more sense to kill games by attacking than by defending. Also worth mentioning that Mourinho's record in the last two months shows that trying to defend a one goal lead isn't the answer either.

I agree with the last paragraph. I knew after De Bruyne missed on Saturday that they would come back and they did. We had 5 great chances to kill that game and the players that got the chances were the two you would have wanted them to fall to. They failed and as a result our defensive deficiencies were exposed again.

Kun and Kdb are underperforming for the quality they have. Kun may score goals but he is missing shit loads of great chances and De Bruyne isn't scoring enough.