City v Stoke Post Match Thread

MaineRoadBlue said:
Dribble said:
Stoke were absolutely brilliant today and I've got no complaints. They defended as a team and attacked as a team and played as if they were high on crack from minute one to minute 94.

They came with a game plan and executed it perfectly so credit where credit’s due to Hughes. The bloke I was sat next to kept making mindless comments like 'Oh come on City, its Stoke FFS’ as if we had a god given right for them to just bend over whilst we stiffed them up the crease which just sounded Raggish to me. At one point I asked him what he'd do differently if he were Pellegrini but all he could keep saying was its Stoke FFS. During one of our attacks I counted 9 Stoke players in their area and when they broke from our attack I counted 6 of their players in or around our area. This wasn't a team who just turned up to fulfill the fixture, they came for a result and got it make no mistake about that.

What was strange for me was for the first time this season we looked fit and ready to start the season proper, but we ran into a Stoke team possessed. I spoke to a Rag earlier who was expecting me to make excuses like he was about Burnley saying Stoke only came to defend. I told him straight, Stoke looked us in the eye and took us on and thoroughly deserved their win and I don't think we had an off day either. When we raised the tempo, they matched us and although we were generally better in possession, when they had the ball it was evident that the days of Pulis's Stoke had been consigned to history because Stoke attacked us in an controlled fashion and with pace as if they knew what they were doing.

There wasn't one of our players who played that didn't deserve to be on the pitch and which ever team won today would have deserved it imo. Perhap Hart could have done better for the goal and Kolorov got left dead for pace wben trying to catch Diouf, but Diouf has been tearing it up in Germany recently with a 1 in 2 goal average and is no slouch either. IIRC Ferndinho had already been booked and was the last man, so he couldn't touch Diouf or we'd have been down to 10 men.

The only thing I would have done differently today is I'd have probably brought on Navas earlier because the middle was so congested we needed the ability to change tactics in game. We were also too slow on the break. Time after time I noticed that we seemed to lack the blistering pace to get beyond them on the break and we kept holding up our own play waiting for players to join in which gave Stoke the opportunity to get back into position.

On the left they kept doubling up on Kolorov to ensure he rarely got near the by-line so he had to keep slinging in crosses from long range which was never gonna help with those column like defenders Stoke had. Perhaps an out and out left winger would have been advantageous to us today, who knows, all I say is we played well and were beaten fair and square. We just need to wipe our mouths and move on to the next match and start preparing for other teams using this Stoke template to combat us with.

First game missed for some considerable time yesterday. Had to listen to Radio 5 for commentary as I was at work. Their assessment, much like yours I must add, is of a focussed Stoke who operated as a team unit.

What never ceases to amaze me, and why I opperate a complete media blackout after any negative result is all the post match psychics, who it would appear knew from the team being released that the wrong team had been selected.

To steal a phrase from Mancini 'this is football' and sometime you have to accept other teams are better on the day and you lose. In fact in the last 2 seasons of football we had only previously lost a league game to Chelsea. In that same period Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and United have lost on multiple occasions to mid table sides at home.

Accept it, Analyse it and Improve on it.
For me, this was our best performance of the season so far and we looked as near as damn it up to speed fitness wise.

What also needs to be considered is the opposition. Whilst Liverpool are undoubtedly a better team than Stoke or Newcastle, Stoke didn't start to fade after the break Like the Dippers did, they kept it going right until the final whistle. If we'd played like we did against Newcastle and Liverpool yesterday, Stoke would have had a way easier time against us because I thought our first 2 matches of the season had a distinctly 'not yet up to speed' feel about them and I was just grateful for the 6 points whilst not being too arsed about the performances. Yesterday was different though because we looked fitter and sharper overall and Stoke dealt with everything we threw at them.

How many times was Moses at left back fighting to stop our attacks only to appear on the edge of our box moments later as part of their counter attack? They fought the whole game and got what they deserved and overall have put up the best performance against us this season, hence their win.

Fair do's, they beat us at home fair and square, the issue now is we now need to find a way to counter Stoke's successful tactics against us because make no mistake, we're gonna be coming up against more of this as the season progresses and we need to be able to adapt our play and switch formations and tactics to suit.
 
The Light Was Yellow said:
blue b4 the moon said:
ancoats said:
I still think the main target this season is a semi final or better in the champions league and when you start to rest key players after a great win vs liverpoool or change it so players are kept happy its show a little bit of weakness from the manager

yesterday we was not at it from the start to slow in moving the ball around and hit into aguero feet too much they had a plan and hit us on the break but when you really don't test there keeper its shows the manager got it wrong

dzeko should have started with and Jesus Navas for Samir Nasri hit them with speed and somebody to hold the ball up front for aguero to run in behind them

put in the bank put it down to early season or just say its was not our day but the best thing if you can take something out of yesterday is it will keep our feet on the floor alot been said in the first 2 games and maybe we started to play the Mr big champions tag you have to roll over bow down to Manchester city but nobody in the premier league is going to give us the points for having the golden badge on our sleeves you have to fight the good fight lesson 1 learn from it move on

I don't think resting is really what happened ancoats. I think it was more about trying to bring the squad upto fitness but as with last season in a couple of early games Pelli miscalculated the opposition.

Sagna for Zabba, Kolorov for Clichy and Aguero for a slightly injured Dzecko. Not too much underestimating from the Liverpool game. They played about as well as they can. Their ex rags stepped up as usually happens with Sunderland, and we weren't quite at it.
We do look half a yard off the pace, which I would hope is not the case in a fortnight.

By miscalculating I meant tactics rather than personnel.
 
blue b4 the moon said:
The Light Was Yellow said:
blue b4 the moon said:
I don't think resting is really what happened ancoats. I think it was more about trying to bring the squad upto fitness but as with last season in a couple of early games Pelli miscalculated the opposition.

Sagna for Zabba, Kolorov for Clichy and Aguero for a slightly injured Dzecko. Not too much underestimating from the Liverpool game. They played about as well as they can. Their ex rags stepped up as usually happens with Sunderland, and we weren't quite at it.
We do look half a yard off the pace, which I would hope is not the case in a fortnight.

By miscalculating I meant tactics rather than personnel.

yep am with you on tactics but lack of pace at leftback and the hardwork zabba at righback
we need to used the pitch more on both sides open up the other team when they sit behind the ball 10 men park the bus you can only do it with speed and it home with that great big pitch we have
play with speed and dzeko to hold the ball up for aguero its old school but its works great
 
Pics and comments on the Stoke City game are now online at
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.rtfract.com/citaug14a.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.rtfract.com/citaug14a.htm</a>
 
Dribble said:
MaineRoadBlue said:
Dribble said:
Stoke were absolutely brilliant today and I've got no complaints. They defended as a team and attacked as a team and played as if they were high on crack from minute one to minute 94.

They came with a game plan and executed it perfectly so credit where credit’s due to Hughes. The bloke I was sat next to kept making mindless comments like 'Oh come on City, its Stoke FFS’ as if we had a god given right for them to just bend over whilst we stiffed them up the crease which just sounded Raggish to me. At one point I asked him what he'd do differently if he were Pellegrini but all he could keep saying was its Stoke FFS. During one of our attacks I counted 9 Stoke players in their area and when they broke from our attack I counted 6 of their players in or around our area. This wasn't a team who just turned up to fulfill the fixture, they came for a result and got it make no mistake about that.

What was strange for me was for the first time this season we looked fit and ready to start the season proper, but we ran into a Stoke team possessed. I spoke to a Rag earlier who was expecting me to make excuses like he was about Burnley saying Stoke only came to defend. I told him straight, Stoke looked us in the eye and took us on and thoroughly deserved their win and I don't think we had an off day either. When we raised the tempo, they matched us and although we were generally better in possession, when they had the ball it was evident that the days of Pulis's Stoke had been consigned to history because Stoke attacked us in an controlled fashion and with pace as if they knew what they were doing.

There wasn't one of our players who played that didn't deserve to be on the pitch and which ever team won today would have deserved it imo. Perhap Hart could have done better for the goal and Kolorov got left dead for pace wben trying to catch Diouf, but Diouf has been tearing it up in Germany recently with a 1 in 2 goal average and is no slouch either. IIRC Ferndinho had already been booked and was the last man, so he couldn't touch Diouf or we'd have been down to 10 men.

The only thing I would have done differently today is I'd have probably brought on Navas earlier because the middle was so congested we needed the ability to change tactics in game. We were also too slow on the break. Time after time I noticed that we seemed to lack the blistering pace to get beyond them on the break and we kept holding up our own play waiting for players to join in which gave Stoke the opportunity to get back into position.

On the left they kept doubling up on Kolorov to ensure he rarely got near the by-line so he had to keep slinging in crosses from long range which was never gonna help with those column like defenders Stoke had. Perhaps an out and out left winger would have been advantageous to us today, who knows, all I say is we played well and were beaten fair and square. We just need to wipe our mouths and move on to the next match and start preparing for other teams using this Stoke template to combat us with.

First game missed for some considerable time yesterday. Had to listen to Radio 5 for commentary as I was at work. Their assessment, much like yours I must add, is of a focussed Stoke who operated as a team unit.

What never ceases to amaze me, and why I opperate a complete media blackout after any negative result is all the post match psychics, who it would appear knew from the team being released that the wrong team had been selected.

To steal a phrase from Mancini 'this is football' and sometime you have to accept other teams are better on the day and you lose. In fact in the last 2 seasons of football we had only previously lost a league game to Chelsea. In that same period Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and United have lost on multiple occasions to mid table sides at home.

Accept it, Analyse it and Improve on it.
For me, this was our best performance of the season so far and we looked as near as damn it up to speed fitness wise.

What also needs to be considered is the opposition. Whilst Liverpool are undoubtedly a better team than Stoke or Newcastle, Stoke didn't start to fade after the break Like the Dippers did, they kept it going right until the final whistle. If we'd played like we did against Newcastle and Liverpool yesterday, Stoke would have had a way easier time against us because I thought our first 2 matches of the season had a distinctly 'not yet up to speed' feel about them and I was just grateful for the 6 points whilst not being too arsed about the performances. Yesterday was different though because we looked fitter and sharper overall and Stoke dealt with everything we threw at them.

How many times was Moses at left back fighting to stop our attacks only to appear on the edge of our box moments later as part of their counter attack? They fought the whole game and got what they deserved and overall have put up the best performance against us this season, hence their win.

Fair do's, they beat us at home fair and square, the issue now is we now need to find a way to counter Stoke's successful tactics against us because make no mistake, we're gonna be coming up against more of this as the season progresses and we need to be able to adapt our play and switch formations and tactics to suit.

I'm gonna play nice this season, and just go with "say what now?!!"
 
dajd1984 said:
OB1 said:
kippaxking79 said:
Scary thing is that Stoke created MORE clear cut chances than we did - SHOCKING when you come to think of it.

Not if you understand that it is tough to create against a team that puts all its men behind the ball and a whole lot easier to find space against a team that is throwing men forward...

What you mean you think it's easier to score here...
BwUyKpzIcAAS7vr.jpg
against one defender

Than it is here...
BwUxpvZIEAAJGLt.jpg
with 8+ players defending their goal.

We definitely need to find a way (I don't know what it is) to beat teams who will play like that against us. It will happen again this season and we need to have Plans A, B and C at the ready. I heard Pellegrini say that we used our most creative players today as a way to try and break them down but I just feel like there isn't space for that kind of magic and having Dzeko up here to get physical with their defenders might have been beer (although that has failed many times too).
And if pushing more and more men forward was our plan B then surely we learn today that only leaving one, already on a booking, player back when we had a corner isn't enough.

That's the sort of thing.

In regards to breaking down teams that pack all their men behind the ball, I think you need to mix it up but I do think high quality passing and movement are a good weapon. I also agree with Pellers about patience. What is crucial is to make the most of the limited opportunities that you create by delivering a good final ball and meeting it with a clinical finish; that is where top quality players should give you an edge. Unfortunately, even the best players have off days in that regard and sometimes they do it collectivley. Whenever that happens to City, we the world's end brigade out in force.
 
Exeter Blue I am here said:
Dribble said:
MaineRoadBlue said:
First game missed for some considerable time yesterday. Had to listen to Radio 5 for commentary as I was at work. Their assessment, much like yours I must add, is of a focussed Stoke who operated as a team unit.

What never ceases to amaze me, and why I opperate a complete media blackout after any negative result is all the post match psychics, who it would appear knew from the team being released that the wrong team had been selected.

To steal a phrase from Mancini 'this is football' and sometime you have to accept other teams are better on the day and you lose. In fact in the last 2 seasons of football we had only previously lost a league game to Chelsea. In that same period Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and United have lost on multiple occasions to mid table sides at home.

Accept it, Analyse it and Improve on it.
For me, this was our best performance of the season so far and we looked as near as damn it up to speed fitness wise.

What also needs to be considered is the opposition. Whilst Liverpool are undoubtedly a better team than Stoke or Newcastle, Stoke didn't start to fade after the break Like the Dippers did, they kept it going right until the final whistle. If we'd played like we did against Newcastle and Liverpool yesterday, Stoke would have had a way easier time against us because I thought our first 2 matches of the season had a distinctly 'not yet up to speed' feel about them and I was just grateful for the 6 points whilst not being too arsed about the performances. Yesterday was different though because we looked fitter and sharper overall and Stoke dealt with everything we threw at them.

How many times was Moses at left back fighting to stop our attacks only to appear on the edge of our box moments later as part of their counter attack? They fought the whole game and got what they deserved and overall have put up the best performance against us this season, hence their win.

Fair do's, they beat us at home fair and square, the issue now is we now need to find a way to counter Stoke's successful tactics against us because make no mistake, we're gonna be coming up against more of this as the season progresses and we need to be able to adapt our play and switch formations and tactics to suit.

I'm gonna play nice this season, and just go with "say what now?!!"
We've played 4 matches so far and have got progressively better fitness wise. I was impressed with our wins against Newcastle and Liverpool but not with the performances because understandable we were and are still getting up to speed. As it stands, Stoke played to their absolute potential yesterday and although our performance was better than our first 2 league matches, it wasn't good enough to beat a resolute Stoke who I thought were brilliant.

No complaints from me about the result as we will improve further. The part Stoke played in their victory can't be understated, they won fair and square and I would say our performance yesterday was better than the first 2 league matches even though we didn't get the desired result. If we'd have won yesterday I reckon hardly anyone would be saying it was a shit performance, but a win is a win, I reckon most would have thought we were approaching full speed nicely.
 
Exeter Blue I am here said:
Dribble said:
MaineRoadBlue said:
First game missed for some considerable time yesterday. Had to listen to Radio 5 for commentary as I was at work. Their assessment, much like yours I must add, is of a focussed Stoke who operated as a team unit.

What never ceases to amaze me, and why I opperate a complete media blackout after any negative result is all the post match psychics, who it would appear knew from the team being released that the wrong team had been selected.

To steal a phrase from Mancini 'this is football' and sometime you have to accept other teams are better on the day and you lose. In fact in the last 2 seasons of football we had only previously lost a league game to Chelsea. In that same period Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and United have lost on multiple occasions to mid table sides at home.

Accept it, Analyse it and Improve on it.
For me, this was our best performance of the season so far and we looked as near as damn it up to speed fitness wise.

What also needs to be considered is the opposition. Whilst Liverpool are undoubtedly a better team than Stoke or Newcastle, Stoke didn't start to fade after the break Like the Dippers did, they kept it going right until the final whistle. If we'd played like we did against Newcastle and Liverpool yesterday, Stoke would have had a way easier time against us because I thought our first 2 matches of the season had a distinctly 'not yet up to speed' feel about them and I was just grateful for the 6 points whilst not being too arsed about the performances. Yesterday was different though because we looked fitter and sharper overall and Stoke dealt with everything we threw at them.

How many times was Moses at left back fighting to stop our attacks only to appear on the edge of our box moments later as part of their counter attack? They fought the whole game and got what they deserved and overall have put up the best performance against us this season, hence their win.

Fair do's, they beat us at home fair and square, the issue now is we now need to find a way to counter Stoke's successful tactics against us because make no mistake, we're gonna be coming up against more of this as the season progresses and we need to be able to adapt our play and switch formations and tactics to suit.

I'm gonna play nice this season, and just go with "say what now?!!"

Like your giddyness, it won't last ;-)
 
My simple thoughts

There is nothing wrong with sometimes lumping the ball up field for Aguero to take on two defenders before everyone gets behind the ball ,as happens with our normally slow build up or waiting for ditherer Hart to release it.

There is nothing wrong with shooting from outside the box into a crowded area where the ball can ping pong anywhere . You might even score directly!

Why have our build ups returned to Mancini pace? Is it only Hart at fault?

If you are winning nothing from long corners, play short.

Why did Navas have to wait so many times for his team mates to catch up before he could put the ball across after beating his man?

Why do we become so confident that we allow situations where our defence does not outnumber their attackers?

In this age where Goalkeepers saves and defenders diving blocks are so often reactive, committing early , why do you never see players feign a shot , throw a dummy ? Stoke defenders were throwing themselves all over in the area yesterday with great success, we were just blasting it against them . Use some guile ffs.

Sorry to apply my schoolyard practises to such a complicated game.
 
Crap.

A mirror image of the Hull game around the same time as last season, aside from Negredo coming off the bench to save the day.

Hughes deployed the same tactics as that incredible final day.

A couple of quick observations.

Jovetic and Aguero can't play in the same team.

Both want to come short against tight defences to make things happen.

You need a target man to stay central.

Sagna is no Zabaleta. Perhaps as good in the tackle but nowhere near the overlap option this team needs to tick.

Pellegrini got it wrong this time, we kick on.
 

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