Club Badge (merged)

[sir baconface]

Greater Manchester and Merseyside are admistrative counties but are still and always will be geographically in Lancashire.

Whoa, hold on a minute. Substantial parts of both Greater Manchester and Merseyside were originally in Cheshire and no doubt some still use a Cheshire postal address. So it's wrong to say both conurbations were always geographically in Lancs.

That said, the city of Manchester is traditionally Lanky and I'd go with shire counties over admin counties all day. On that basis, the rose is perfectly appropriate.

Re the ship, shipping brought prosperity to Manchester so that is an appropriate symbol too. It doesn't matter that the ship canal isn't within the city boundary.

 

[urban genie]

Whoa, hold on a minute. Substantial parts of both Greater Manchester and Merseyside were originally in Cheshire and no doubt some still use a Cheshire postal address. So it's wrong to say both conurbations were always geographically in Lancs.

That said, the city of Manchester is traditionally Lanky and I'd go with shire counties over admin counties all day. On that basis, the rose is perfectly appropriate.

Re the ship, shipping brought prosperity to Manchester so that is an appropriate symbol too. It doesn't matter that the ship canal isn't within the city boundary.

I take that point I should had said the majority of Greater manc and merseyside were lanc. I know south of the mersey for both were cheshire, I stand corrected.

As for the boat my point was that it was on the coat of arms before the ship canal was built so why do peole confuse what it represents, out trade with the world not the ship canal.

 

[Centurions]

Whoa, hold on a minute. Substantial parts of both Greater Manchester and Merseyside were originally in Cheshire and no doubt some still use a Cheshire postal address. So it's wrong to say both conurbations were always geographically in Lancs.

That said, the city of Manchester is traditionally Lanky and I'd go with shire counties over admin counties all day. On that basis, the rose is perfectly appropriate.

Re the ship, shipping brought prosperity to Manchester so that is an appropriate symbol too. It doesn't matter that the ship canal isn't within the city boundary.

The ship is absolutely nothing to do with the ship canal. The old Manchester coat of arms had the ship on from 1842 (which is where our shield comes from) and is described as 'The ship in full sail is a reference to the city's growing trade and enterprise' @ http://www.bbc.co.uk/manchester/con.../110209_manchester_coat_of_arms_feature.shtml

The ship canal wasn't officially opened until 01/01/1894 (a mere 52 years later) by no less than Queen Vic herself.

 

[Ban-jani]

How's your reading comprehension?

Nowhere in my comment do I discuss what I think of the badge, I'm touching on whether or not the consultation was genuine or a box ticking exercise designed to give us the impression our voice mattered.

I don't think our input counted for much, the survey was very limited and the new badge was churned out incredibly quickly with no option for a vote on a final design.

I don't think our input counted for nothing, but I think some of you are overestimating how much it counted for.

As to my thoughts about the badge, I'm pretty ambivalent about it. I half expected it to be worse, so I'm happy in that respect. It's about as inoffensive and generic as they could make it though, just a bit 'meh'. I however really don't like the fact there's no inclusion of the words 'football club' or 'FC', and I don't like the amount of Navy accents and the Navy text in it, doesn't look right IMO.

And as to your anecdotes, mine are pretty mixed, as per this forum. Season ticket holder besides me who's been going before I was born really doesn't like it, and we're in full agreement that there should have been a greater involvement of the supporters in the final design, for example a transparent vote on the final design out of a selection of a few.

That'd be real consultation that couldn't be at all accused of being a box ticking exercise, but that isn't what we got.

I'm not up in arms or anything though, just been left a bit disappointed by the whole charade.

You have absolutely zero evidence to suggest the consultation had little impact though have you?

There are people posting on here who were part of the process of consulting the fans, who have a better insight than you or me, and they're convinced the club took on board exactly which symbols the fans asked for.

The majority of people I've spoken to either on here, Facebook or in person wanted a round badge, with the ship and 3 rivers but most were sympathetic to the rose badge as well.

From my own personal experience the club's findings look to be bang on and they've compromised by making a badge to include what the majority wanted.

I've also spoken to people who are apathetic towards our badge, other fans and even some blues who don't care that much and every time when I've asked their opinion they've just uttered "looks like the old one". Which can't be bad thing.

There's some on here making false claims against the motive of the club just because they don't like the new badge, when it's obvious they listened to what the fans wanted. Maybe both the majority of fans and the club wanted something similar.

 

[mancityvstoke]

the badge agenda

Greater Manchester nah nah nah

 

[mrtwiceaseason]

You have absolutely zero evidence to suggest the consultation had little impact though have you?

There are people posting on here who were part of the process of consulting the fans, who have a better insight than you or me, and they're convinced the club took on board exactly which symbols the fans asked for.

The majority of people I've spoken to either on here, Facebook or in person wanted a round badge, with the ship and 3 rivers but most were sympathetic to the rose badge as well.

From my own personal experience the club's findings look to be bang on and they've compromised by making a badge to include what the majority wanted.

I've also spoken to people who are apathetic towards our badge, other fans and even some blues who don't care that much and every time when I've asked their opinion they've just uttered "looks like the old one". Which can't be bad thing.

There's some on here making false claims against the motive of the club just because they don't like the new badge, when it's obvious they listened to what the fans wanted. Maybe both the majority of fans and the club wanted something similar.

I think you could have made 2 versions of that badge 12onths ago one with the rose one without ,I think that's probably the only information that came out of the survey that you couldn't have predicted before hand

 

[Metal Biker]

Why is the Lancashire rose on there?

Ok Manchester WAS part of Lancashire, but hasn't been for 41 years now? are we going forward or going back here?
and correct me if I'm mistaken but I thought us proud 'Mancs' we're very porocial and savvy on the borders of Manchester?
We seem to cherry pick what we think is cool (rose image) but usually dismiss Lancashire as the farmland of inbred pie eaters - very confusing?
The badge of three rivers -blue and white ship (ship canal - trafford/salford border?) is nicer (aesthetically) but as confusing as the eagle.
Why the Manchester bee not make an appearance? more relevant than a neighbouring county's logo.

You're going to disassociate Manchester's 800 year connection to Lancashire based solely on the decision of a Tory from London to win more seats in Parliament?

 

[SWP's back]

Yeah, like I thought - very confusing, Greater Manchester and Merseyside are IN Lancashire you say?
Two counties in a county? nah.
They are their own counties and have been since 1974the badge is a hark back to the old one and I like it a lot
but Greater manchester is NOT in Lancashire, even Bolton and Wigan aren't much to their apparent disapproval.

City Lancashire? yeah We USED to be, so its a nostalgic badge, fair enough -I like the look of it, and it does improve the 'LOOK' of the badge
but I'd be laughing if I was a Preston or Blackburn fan.

Love the Rose.

Great call City.

Ignore the easily confused.

 

[BrianW]

I always find it a bit odd that people are still attached to the 'old' counties. These counties were the definition of administrative areas, put in so the local sheriff knew where to stop oppressing the locals and leave it to the next door thug. It's just that they were set up a long, long time ago. However they were put there by a government, not God, and were just as 'artificial' as any other random political unit.

Any road, the badge isn't perfect, it's not what I'd have chosen, but it's better than the one in place. No badge is going to satisfy everyone, but this is a fair compromise.

 

[Utter bobbins]

I always find it a bit odd that people are still attached to the 'old' counties. These counties were the definition of administrative areas, put in so the local sheriff knew where to stop oppressing the locals and leave it to the next door thug. It's just that they were set up a long, long time ago. However they were put there by a government, not God, and were just as 'artificial' as any other random political unit.

Any road, the badge isn't perfect, it's not what I'd have chosen, but it's better than the one in place. No badge is going to satisfy everyone, but this is a fair compromise.

I liked the sheriff of Lancashire

 

[Shaelumstash]

I always find it a bit odd that people are still attached to the 'old' counties. These counties were the definition of administrative areas, put in so the local sheriff knew where to stop oppressing the locals and leave it to the next door thug. It's just that they were set up a long, long time ago. However they were put there by a government, not God, and were just as 'artificial' as any other random political unit.

Any road, the badge isn't perfect, it's not what I'd have chosen, but it's better than the one in place. No badge is going to satisfy everyone, but this is a fair compromise.

Great post. I just don't understand the posts where people say "Greater Manchester is just an administrative area that the Tory's forced upon us". As opposed to Lancashire, which was an administrative area forced upon us by the ruling power a few hundred years ago! What's the difference?!

Manchester is no longer part of Lancashire in any political or commercial sense. Greater Manchester is it's own autonomous city region. The 10 Greater Manchester councils own Manchester, East Midlands and Stanstead airports. The GM city council are recieving devolved powers for taxation, transport, health, home building, and economic powers that no other city or region has ever had in the country.

Yet some claim Manchester is still really in Lancashire. In what possible way is it still in Lancashire?!! Greater Manchester city council is now the most important regional authority in the country, it has as much to do with Preston and Blackburn as it does with Leeds or Birmingham!

Aside from that, the rose adds a bit of colour and depth to the badge, and to me it represents an old popular City badge more than it does the county of Lancashire.

 

[BlueS]

Absolutely love the new badge, it's a thing of beauty, it looks bright, friendly and endearing, and i can imagine a lot of kids around the world staring at it in wonder much like i used to do when i was a boy that collected football stickers (also the saints badge had a certain fascination).

We've basically gone back to the old badge and it's brilliant.

 

[urban genie]

The historical areas of Lancashire have been shires intetwined since Roman times as part of the Brigante northern kingdom, though not named Lancashire until the 12th century the land between the Ribble and Mersey has always been considered one single shire, even mentinoed in the doomsday book,. So yes the name and who administered it was created by Land owners and politicians, but the land itself has been known as a county or shire for nearly 2000 years with or without the name Manchester will always be part of this historic county region whether it's Lancashire, Greater Manc , the salford 100 or whatever else it has been called over it's lifetime, but for 800 years it was Lancashire and some people still recognise it as that and probably will till the next generation is long gone.

All that counts is that the badge represents City both past and present and kills that wretched bird off

 

[mancityvstoke]

yeah fuck off eaglinho

 

[sir baconface]

Great post. I just don't understand the posts where people say "Greater Manchester is just an administrative area that the Tory's forced upon us". As opposed to Lancashire, which was an administrative area forced upon us by the ruling power a few hundred years ago! What's the difference?!

Manchester is no longer part of Lancashire in any political or commercial sense. Greater Manchester is it's own autonomous city region. The 10 Greater Manchester councils own Manchester, East Midlands and Stanstead airports. The GM city council are recieving devolved powers for taxation, transport, health, home building, and economic powers that no other city or region has ever had in the country.

Yet some claim Manchester is still really in Lancashire. In what possible way is it still in Lancashire?!! Greater Manchester city council is now the most important regional authority in the country, it has as much to do with Preston and Blackburn as it does with Leeds or Birmingham!

Aside from that, the rose adds a bit of colour and depth to the badge, and to me it represents an old popular City badge more than it does the county of Lancashire.

Istree innit, mate? We might just as well turn the ship into a plane, replace the rivers with three microchips and the rose with a Greggs pastie.

On reflection, the eagle had none of these emotive historical connotations. Bring back our birdie, City....

 

[Ban-jani]

I think you could have made 2 versions of that badge 12onths ago one with the rose one without ,I think that's probably the only information that came out of the survey that you couldn't have predicted before hand

I can agree with that. It's so obvious what type of badge the fans wanted, the club would have seen the amount of references to the old badge on fan flags.

I think the majority would have been happy with either the 3 rivers, rose or both. As it is I'm now very happy they've given a nod to both.

I think the club have handled it perfectly and got all the aspects the fans wanted, whilst keeping it clean and smart. Obviously not everyone will be happy though.

 

[WRicko]

Was wondering if I am the only person who thinks the dropping of football could be significant. It allows us to put are branding on things without causing a problem for rival fans or non football fans who might buy the product Cook did say that he wanted us to have our brand on all sorts of products. I suspect this has been mentioned before. My second thought was it could be to do with the Campus since it could do with some other sports facilities and teams to create footfall, interest, infrastructure, and goodwill, for more boring but commercially viable operations like hotels, Casino, concerts, food operations etc etc

 

[Shaelumstash]

Istree innit, mate? We might just as well turn the ship into a plane, replace the rivers with three microchips and the rose with a Greggs pastie.

On reflection, the eagle had none of these emotive historical connotations. Bring back our birdie, City....

Yeh I've got no problem with the rose being on the badge mate. I grew up with the original rose badge and the birdie never meant anything to me.

The ship, shield and rivers are all historic symbols of Manchester and are on the CoA. As the club represents the city of Manchester, it's right and proper that these things are represented.

From a symbolic point of view, while the rose is on the CoA, it was originally on our badge to represent Lancashire. The club is no longer in Lancashire, so it's a bit antiquated to include it, but it does make the design a bit more eye catching, so I'm happy for it to be there.

There's lots of things we could include, plane, microchip, atom, computer etc, but for me the Greggs pasty is similar to the rose, much more Lancastrian than Mancunian. I could get behind a barm being included though....

 

[mancityvstoke]

Muffin

 

[Ban-jani]

Muffin

Barm!!!!!!