Common sense or ethically wrong

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Common sense. Too many businesses have been too reliant on cheap labour. The same businesses that refuse to pay people properly.

it’s strange to see so many people, particularly on the left who want cheap labour and want people to come in and get paid f all, rather then increase wages or train British people up

 

[Fame Monster]

Common sense. Too many businesses have been too reliant on cheap labour. The same businesses that refuse to pay people properly.

it’s strange to see so many people, particularly on the left who want cheap labour and want people to come in and get paid f all, rather then increase wages or train British people up

It's weird to see the triangulation between those on the far left of the debate on BM with the low-tax free-marketeers on here.

Might help explain why the working class don't vote Labour anymore.

 

[Ban-jani]

As I understand it immigration is different between Australia and New Zealand in that they have a form of FoM applicable between these two countries.

That’s totally irrelevant to the points system we’re discussing isn’t it?

 

[Blue Mist]

This is the end. Beautiful friend.
[The Doors - the End.]
Turn on,tune in, drop out my beautiful Tory friend.

The Blue bus is calling us
Driver where you taking us

One of the best songs ever and as I have said before, the Homer Simpson version is a classic.

 

[BobKowalski]

Common sense. Too many businesses have been too reliant on cheap labour. The same businesses that refuse to pay people properly.

it’s strange to see so many people, particularly on the left who want cheap labour and want people to come in and get paid f all, rather then increase wages or train British people up

Because in low wage, low skill regions like NI or elsewhere in GB access to outside labour with a minimum of state controlled rules and admin is necessary for economic growth. Overall we are currently at full employment so the labour to fill the gaps has to come from somewhere and if the rules for qualification are too high you will just drive that labour into the unregulated and untaxed black economy.

The US has stupidly onerous immigration rules and ends up with 20 million illegals on which the US economy depends. With the amount of public debt the US admin is pumping into the economy to keep growth going and offset the equally stupid tariff wars they now need more legal immigrants to keep fuelling the growth. When economic reality meets prejudice.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr...6292b2-5401-11ea-87b2-101dc5477dd7_story.html

 

[Saddleworth2]

I would imagine that folk with independent means would have no problem, there's certainly not one in Spain.

I know. But my point was, if the UK introduces a point/language system for everyone that wants to move here, including retirees, the EU might reciprocate in kind.

 

[inbetween]

What problem are they actually trying to solve?

We aren’t going to deport anyone so those that can’t get school places still won’t be able to, those that apparently can’t recognise their high street still won’t be able to and NHS waiting lists won’t be going down

The U.K. is almost at full employment and wages are apparently rising. So what’s the problem?

If people are in low paid jobs the Tory message used to be ‘get on your bike’. It’s a supply and demand issue. Typically cutting off the labor market isn’t a good idea

It seems to me to be reactionary. Being seen to do something, anything.

If school places are a problem then build more schools. If low pay is the issue, pay the public sector more. How are they getting on with the 40 hospitals. China did a couple in a week so we must be making some progress

What do you do if you cannot physically build enough houses, hospitals and schools due to the fact that we need to build a city of them the size of Bristol every year?

Immigration changes the local landscape. Immigrants don't replace emigrants like for like in the locations where people used to live. They move mostly to cities and that immediately puts pressure on local infrastructure compared to the year before.

Think of your local community and let's say 20,000 people turned up in a year, every year. That is what is happening in London.

Even if Labour got in and promised all of the money and building in the world, it still wouldn't help. The reason why is Labour cannot build hospitals or schools any faster than anyone else.

Most immigration is measured by net figures but the gross figure is more important because that shows just how many are coming in and potentially moving to places like the cities. The gross figure is almost the population of Manchester and are we building a new Manchester every year?

There is nothing wrong with immigration but the shear amount and pace over the last 20 years has caught us completely off guard.

 

[BobKowalski]

That’s totally irrelevant to the points system we’re discussing isn’t it?

No. The point is that immigration policy with close neighbours tends to operate differently than policy with non neighbouring countries. Having a universal policy that treats people from France the same as it does people from Nigeria or wherever is economically illiterate. We still have a different policy with the RoI due to history and geographic location do we not?

The reason why there is usually a difference is economics and cultural. You trade more with your near neighbours which creates greater links and preferential immigration policy develops to facilitate that trade. Cultural links can also make a difference ie ex colonies may have different immigration rules than countries with no cultural links.

Touting a immigration policy that is ‘fair’ for all is very nice but it ain’t going to work in reality.

 

[smudgedj]

I know. But my point was, if the UK introduces a point/language system for everyone that wants to move here, including retirees, the EU might reciprocate in kind.

Eu has no say in immigration policy for non Eu members.

 

[BobKowalski]

What do you do if you cannot physically build enough houses, hospitals and schools due to the fact that we need to build a city of them the size of Bristol every year?

Immigration changes the local landscape. Immigrants don't replace emigrants like for like in the locations where people used to live. They move mostly to cities and that immediately puts pressure on local infrastructure compared to the year before.

Think of your local community and let's say 20,000 people turned up in a year, every year. That is what is happening in London.

Even if Labour got in and promised all of the money and building in the world, it still wouldn't help. The reason why is Labour cannot build hospitals or schools any faster than anyone else.

Most immigration is measured by net figures because that shows just how many are coming in and potentially moving to places like the cities. The gross figure is almost the population of Manchester and are we building a new Manchester every year?

There is nothing wrong with immigration but the shear amount and pace over the last 20 years has caught us completely off guard.

Two points in bold. 1. London is great and is the biggest driver of the UK economy so not seeing what the problem is. And 2. No shit. How can you simply measure people coming in and ignore people going out? Or dying for that matter.