Coronavirus (2021) thread

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

what's next? that's the point, people still pining for it. Wearing a mask is a curb however trivial it is. Covid passports to fly are curbs however trivial you think it is. Locking people up around Europe because they're not vaccinated and forcing mandatory vaccination with a vaccine that barely lasts 3 months or we wouldn't need boosters and is untested against new variants, is a curb of freedoms no matter how trivial you think it is.

Get a grip mate. You lose more freedoms by using the internet and carrying a mobile.

 

[Gabriel]

Very early but interesting perspective from the ground.

 

[Healdplace]

The trouble with statstics is you can sell them many ways.

In the UK Omicron cases detected have risen from a dozen or so to around 300 or so in a week.

You can read that as OMG Omicron has mutiplied 30 times in a week. We are doomed.

Or why is it not going from 12, to 12,000 in a week if it is that dominant given how easy it is to spread in a country with no restrictions and perfect conditions to spread it - winter v summer.

The one big difference I see is the level of vaccination and boosters here - plus we have had high cases for months here and it seems pretty unlikely we are going to see cases leap from 50K to 500K a day in days. Or we would surely by now be seeing early signs of that.

Probably reading it wrong but for now I am more hopeful than I was a week ago.

 

[Summerbuzz]

Listening to people is great. It's easy to see how crazy they really are. You cant get reality to disappear, but damned if they can't everyone else to shut up about it.

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

The Telegraph has just put up a lead article saying that the recently approved anti Covid pill will be rolled out to vulnerable groups within 48 hours of a positive test. It is called Lagrevrio or Molnupiravir and the UK is the first country to approve it. It is an anti viral drug that reduces the chances of hospitalisation for particularly vulnerable immunosuppressed groups. If it is deemed successful it will be routinely rolled out.

Covid pill to be rolled out before Christmas

Number 10 speeds up deliveries of antivirals as omicron variant forces return of pre-flight virus tests

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Jesus2020]

There is a big difference between being anti-capitalist and being anti-science.

Vaccination works at the individual level but at the same time has probably triggered the variants that we have faced. That's not an argument against vaccination. It will still save many lives and it will contribute massively to ending this epidemic.

But if you're hesitant because one of them as proven to cause blood clots an they were willing to still try to persuade us to take them and you think what's to say there wont be complications with the others then I don't think this makes you anti vax either.

 

[Jesus2020]

Works both ways that one. I doubt many people think governments necessarily have our best interests at heart but some fucker has to run the country - every country - and you need laws in place (whether we agree with them or not) to ensure a fully functioning society, otherwise it'll all go to shit. Of course they need us to work, but by the same token the people need to work in order to give themselves a chance of actually enjoying life, and I'm sure the vast majority would sooner be healthy enough to work than too sick to work.
All you had to say was that you don't agree with mandatory vaccinations instead of coming out with all the other guff.

Not really because that would be to address a different subject than I did.

 

[Jesus2020]

"Big pharma" haha. You're a conspiracy nut, own it.

Which is why I placed the words big pharma into brackets. As to suggest that people use this terminology, not to suggest I view the issue as such. I doubt you were stupid enough to not realise this which would suggest your motive in replying is not to debate but to rhino your own point of view.

 

[Jesus2020]

When you reply to something you don't agree with, with insults, it suggests you are scared of debate. Anyone who is scared of debate is at danger of not ever changing their view. No matter what they are offered.

 

[OffertonBlue]

Ultimately, Governments of all countries have to balance and manage risk during whatever circumstances exist at that particular time in that particular country. They have to balance having their economy and society running against hospitalisations and deaths from Covid. If infection rate's could rise then appropriate measures need to be introduced. If big rises are forecast then lockdowns, mask wearing, social distancing, etc should be introduced as appropriate to the risk whilst still maintaining optimum balance of the economy running, peoples freedoms and peoples health. It's all about managing and reducing risk. That's what a lot of people fail to understand and that then causes many issues and disagreements.

For example, the latest measures are you must wear masks in shops and public transport. Although wearing masks are not 100% effective, they do help reduce the risk, especially to those around the wearer. On the surface it then seems "stupid" that you do not have to wear a mask in pubs, restaurants, football matches, etc. But it is not "stupid" as these specific measure have reduced the risk, not totally, but it has reduced the risk. People can still voluntarily wear masks in pubs, restaurants, football matches, etc if they so wish. It is all about managing risk and bringing in appropriate measures to suit the specific circumstances at that particular time. If the risks were greater, then more measures would be introduced, such as wearing masks in pubs, restaurants, football matches, etc. as well as in shops and on public transport. If risks were even greater, then part lockdowns will be introduced. If the risks were greater still, then full lockdowns. Conversely, as risks are reduced then restrictions will be reduced proportionately. It is simply managing risks and balancing economy and freedoms against hospitalisations and deaths.

I also believe that vaccinations have greatly helped reduce risks, not only in reducing the risk of catching covid, but also in reducing the severity of symptoms if still infected. Many others disagree and a small but very vocal minority even believe that vaccinations are "experimental" and can cause harm to those who have had them. I have more than one close family member who have very strong beliefs who have done their "research" and refuse to be vaccinated, wear masks, socially distance, etc. On the surface that's fine, it's their choice....they may even be right and I'm wrong. I am double jabbed plus a booster. Some family members are not. I've told them that if I'm wrong and they are right (that the vaccinations can harm me), then I may suffer harm. However, I've also told them that if I'm right (that vaccinations reduce risks to me and those around me) and they are wrong, then they may harm themselves AND dozens of other innocents around them.

Those same family members think all Governments are telling lies and Covid doesn't exist, vaccines don't work, masks don't work, etc. I trust our Government (with all their faults and mistakes) and they don't. But I simply ask them then what's their alternative? Get rid of our Government? Get rid of all laws, rules, regulations? What would society be like then I ask them? Would they prefer a free for all? Anarchy? They tell me I'm losing my freedoms and it's the thin end of the wedge. Personally, I'll put up with the "massive loss of freedom" in having to wear a mask in the local shop and on public transport, as I believe it is the sensible thing to do. Likewise, I believed my grandparents were right to put up with the "massive loss of freedom" they endured by having their blackout curtains closed during the Second World War, as they believed it reduced the risk of a German bomber dropping bombs on their street and cities. Again, it is all about managing and reducing risk, for yourself and the wider society. As all life is. Sorry for the long post, which you may or may not agree with.