Coronavirus (2021) thread

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I am because we need booster jabs that target the current variants and not the Wuhan virus.

These companies don't shoot down their existing products that are in circulation but the escape mutations are accumulating and so we need an updated vaccine. Its good news.

The very statement you posted said that the booster jabs of the existing vaccine works on beta and delta variants.


In addition, data from a recent Nature paper demonstrate that immune sera obtained shortly after dose 2 of the primary two dose series of BNT162b2 have strong neutralization titers against the Delta variant (B.1.617.2 lineage) in laboratory tests. The companies anticipate that a third dose will boost those antibody titers even higher, similar to how the third dose performs for the Beta variant (B.1.351). Pfizer and BioNTech are conducting preclinical and clinical tests to confirm this hypothesis. While Pfizer and BioNTech believe a third dose of BNT162b2 has the potential to preserve the highest levels of protective efficacy against all currently known variants including Delta, the companies are remaining vigilant and are developing an updated version of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine that targets the full spike protein of the Delta variant.​
 
But that’s not what the article says, ffs.

The booster jabs that Pfizer are on about are just a 3rd shot of same jab, then they also talk about how they are going to start clinical trials in August of a different jab that will target the variants, but that’s nothing to do with the booster.

Come on mate, just accept you got mixed up, it’s not that hard.

While Pfizer and BioNTech believe a third dose of BNT162b2 has the potential to preserve the highest levels of protective efficacy against all currently known variants including Delta, the companies are remaining vigilant and are developing an updated version of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine that targets the full spike protein of the Delta variant.

It's a booster based on an updated genome.

It seems you guys are more interested in trolling than you are on the actual news
 
While Pfizer and BioNTech believe a third dose of BNT162b2 has the potential to preserve the highest levels of protective efficacy against all currently known variants including Delta, the companies are remaining vigilant and are developing an updated version of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine that targets the full spike protein of the Delta variant.

It's a booster based on an updated genome.

It seems you guys are more interested in trolling than you are on the actual news
Are you taking the piss? No trolling whatsoever so don’t be a dick.

Anyway, I’m out, nothing more annoying than someone who just can’t admit they were wrong. Thread doesn’t need derailing.
 
The very statement you posted said that the booster jabs of the existing vaccine works on beta and delta variants.
If we base booster jabs in the AUtumn on a virus that is no longer circulating then it will be a very short term measure.
 
Are you taking the piss? No trolling whatsoever so don’t be a dick.

Anyway, I’m out, nothing more annoying than someone who just can’t admit they were wrong. Thread doesn’t need derailing.
You derailed it from a discussion about the launch of a new variant based vaccine to point-scoring.
 
If we base booster jabs in the AUtumn on a virus that is no longer circulating then it will be a very short term measure.
No Marvin, it wont.

Because as Pfizer said in the press release you quoted (but didn't read?) the 5-10x increase in immune response from a booster is enough to protect against the delta variant.
 
Updated PHE report

The good:

No evidence that Delta causes a more serious disease once in hospital

28 day case fatality rate down from 0.3% to 0.2%

Last case of lambada detected in England on 18th June. **


The bad:

Notable increase in test positivity amongst NHS staff over past several weeks. 96% of them vaccinated and one third of them previously infected. Could represent waning immunity, vaccine escape or a combination of both.

Amount of sequencing taking a hit due to volume of cases, as you might expect. Sequencing is now more targeted as opposed to random.

** Could relate to point made regarding drop off in sequencing.

Thread from @kallmemeg on twitter if anyone is interested, epidemiologist at PHE and well worth a follow too.
 
No Marvin, it wont.

Because as Pfizer said in the press release you quoted (but didn't read?) the 5-10x increase in immune response from a booster is enough to protect against the delta variant.
Now. But it keeps evolving. Why are they developing a variant based booster? Precisely to protect against ongoing variation

If it was static we wouldn't have a problem. That's why it's important that when the next vaccine is distributed it's ass up to date as possible
 
From gov.uk

Percentage change if 7 day case rates.

Tf you go through different regions you find they are all quite similar. A spike for about 4-6 weeks and then some flat-lining. Those areas with low vaccine rates seem to continue to show slow growth after the main surge is over. What I think is going on is that it surges in the young and then burns out. Then it starts to rotate out from the young into other groups, at a lower rate of growth.

Those areas which has low vax rates see slow growth after the initial surge (Manchester), those areas with high vax rates flat-line afterwards (Bolton).


View attachment 20919


APOLOGIES GIANT POST. PLEASE READ IT OR NOT AS YOU CHOOSE.

BUT I THOUGHT SEEING THESE NUMBERS MUGHT INFORM THOSE KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT SUCH THINGS. AS THEY HAVE TO TELL US SOMETHING WE CAN WORK WITH.


I will leave it to the real data experts, Marvin, as I am in no way one - to agree or disagree but that makes sense as a possibility,

Though a little concerned that Bolton flattened after all the effort put in locally and fell. But has not really fallen below a base level whilst going from by miles the worst in GM to now easily the best,

Here are its weekly Pop Scores from 11 weeks ago when this started to peak in East Lancashire before anywhere else. I put in brackets with its Pop the number of cases in England only that same date for an indication of Bolton's relative contribution).

Bolton the week before (wk ending on 18 April) had started on 32 - a pretty typical score for the town in low days. (3222 cases in England that date).

Tameside and Trafford were the BEST in GM then on just 19. Several GM boroughs - including Manchester, Oldham and Rochdale were then higher than Bolton.

But BL edged up quickly to the end of that week on 50. And by the week starting 26 April (England cases DOWN to 1752) it was ahead of everywhere on 49 and 6 days later on 75 (England cases just 1377).

So as Bolton was going up England was falling quite fast.

However, Trafford had stared spiking too then - something that went unnoticed at the time and on 50 was the only place in GM looking to have a problem. Wigan was still way down on 23 and Stockport the best on just 20.

Over the next two weeks up to week ending 9 May (England cases still only 1418) Bolton had rapidly exploded upward starting on 81 and going to be just 14 days later on 305! So by then its relative percentage of England cases had suddenly skyrocketed, As these had barely changed whilst Bolton (and do not forget as it was actually worse than Bolton and still is - Blackburn/Burnley/Rossendale outside of GM was the huge part of it).

Unnoticed though was that most other boroughs were now inching up by then but not remotely near that level - Stockport went from 20 to 33. And Manchester (next nearest to Bolton) from 35 to 47.

So BL took all the attention as it had literally exploded out of all recognition in those two weeks.

A week later (wk ending 23 May) Bolton had reached its high point on 456. (England cases by then believe it or not were still just 1734- so Bolton was the centre of national news as it was dominating the cases - though with those less recognised neighbouring areas adding more actual cases which Zoe missed as that East Lancashire area was and still is a Zoe no App user blackspot that to this day never returns data).

Action was by then being taken locally in Bolton to suppress and it helped. But the wider threat not as yet realised.

Manchester in that same week was second highest but had only gone up from 47 to 59. Stockport had fallen all the way to 14. And on 46 Trafford was third most in GM behind Manchester and both miles behind Bolton,

Then it all changed as the measures taken locally / or the natural course of the wave took hold and Bolton started to steadily fall,

By week ending 30 May Bolton was down from 456 to 365 (England cases 2621 - as you can see England cases now rising as Bolton was dropping fast so it had come JUST too late spotting the problem before it had alreasy leaked out elsewhere acrss GM).

Those signs of spread were appearing. Bury became the next area of concern and rose from 58 to 121 and just kept on going up and up, Bury and Bolton are neighbour boroughs and share the BL postcode.

Bury were not alone in going up that week though, Manchester went 60 - 107, Oldham 31 to 68, Rochdale 47 to 93, Salford (bordering Bury) arguably the worst from 31 to 113, Stockport too from 17 to 76, Tameside 20 to 50, Wigan 42 to 80 - but Trafford the smallest jump from 46 to 68.

From here on Bolton inched down over the next two weeks - by week ending Jun 6 (England cases up to 4405 from the wider spread not now Bolton as that was falling) on 327 and week ending Jun 13 (England cases now suddenly going up inexorably by 50% on 6269) Bolton down to 295 and week ending Jun 20 (England cases now 7778) got as low as 249.

The rest of GM had gone up in those three weeks a lot. Bury overtook it in that third week and was now on 335 and Manchester, Wigan and Trafford had also all overtaken Bolton. Stockport was the only borough by then below 200 - on 194 - though not for much longer.

However, the next week these wide spread of cases (and possibly by now much more testing?) saw Bolton reverse and go upwards again from a low of 239 on 21 June (England cases 8766)

Sadly it has pretty slowly but steadily RISEN in the two and a half weeks since. On 21 June Stockport (194), Tameside (215), Oldham (223) and Rochdale (236) were all still just doing better than Bolton but by now it was ahead of all the rest in terms of low numbers after being far ahead.

In the 18 days since then Bolton has gone up again slowly. It was on 286 on 26 Jun (England cases having more than doubled in a week to 18, 702) but Bolton having only edged up when everywhere else was shooting up,

By then only Stockport was ahead of it on 257 and it was rising faster than Bolton so was not going to last. Manchester and Salford by now had a higher Pop Score than Bolton had ever had when it was spiralling up in May,


Bolton edged back up over 300 five days ago and is on 307 right now - its highest since 9 June.

But every single borough in GM in that month long period has now gone above it. Half of the county now higher than Bolton ever got.

In that period 9 Jun (England cases 6201) to 8 Jul (England cases more than quadrupled on 28, 421) here are how the GM Pop Scores have risen:

Bolton 324 to 307

Bury 229 to 369

Manchester 271 to 501

Oldham 136 to 586

Rochdale 183 to 516

Salford 287 to 501

Stockport 234 to 369

Tameside 132 to 443

Trafford 182 to 494

Wigan 199 to 526


As I think you can clearly see who is right now doing OK (Bolton best clearly still, Stockport up the least otherwise, with Bury not far behind).

Oldham and a few others not that far behind have quadrupled in 3 weeks.

No idea if this data shows anything we can learn from. Or what we can do with it. Will leave that to thise understading numbers better than I do. But this is a picture of the last 2 months in Greater Manchester.

It must tell us something.
 
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Updated PHE report

The good:

No evidence that Delta causes a more serious disease once in hospital

28 day case fatality rate down from 0.3% to 0.2%

Last case of lambada detected in England on 18th June. **


The bad:

Notable increase in test positivity amongst NHS staff over past several weeks. 96% of them vaccinated and one third of them previously infected. Could represent waning immunity, vaccine escape or a combination of both.

Amount of sequencing taking a hit due to volume of cases, as you might expect. Sequencing is now more targeted as opposed to random.

** Could relate to point made regarding drop off in sequencing.

Thread from @kallmemeg on twitter if anyone is interested, epidemiologist at PHE and well worth a follow too.
That is interesting and as you say good and bad.

Wonder if this also explains the breakthrough into care homes as N Ireland is showing daily as I expect some of the earliest vaccinations were in there and immunity might be weakening as in the NHS staff for same reasons.
 
WALES DATA

1 death - was 0 last week

655 cases - was 570 last week

3.6% - was 3.2% last week

57 patients - was 44 last week

5 Ventilated - was 3 last week


That does not look a terrible week to week rise in the circumstances.
 
These are variant-specific vaccines we are talking about. I wouldn't be excited about a 3rd dose of an existing vaccine.

GSK, Moderna and Pfizer are all working on vaccines that target variants.

The booster programme proposed is, unless I have misunderstood it, with current vaccines.

Not sure why whether it's targeted to specific variants or not matters, as long as it works.
 
Surprised you are not all jumping up and down about the Pfizer news...

early data from the company’s own studies shows that a third booster dose generates antibody levels that are five to 10-fold higher than after the second dose.

The only thing keeping Covid alive is variant evolution, and if there are vaccines in the pipeline that are that effective then in the medium term it's just had its legs cut from under it.

I seriously hope that these pharmaceutical companies are not keeping these products back in order to maximise their profits from existing products. OK the current Pfizer vaccine might work but if you have one that produces 5 to 10 times the amount of antibodies, then why what's stopping you from launching it?

Seems the BBC's news a few days ago that they understood that the booster campaign would not be based on variant specific jabs was wrong.
It's even higher if you switch vaccines.
(German research on mixing vaccine jabs)
 
Latest data on transmission rates in UK

England up from 1 in 250 to 1 in 160, Highest I can recall in ages.

But Scotland up from 1 in 150 to just 1 in 100

Northern Ireland up from 1 in 670 more than double to 1 in 300

And Wales up from 1 in 450 to 1 in 340.

The most vaccinated nation still doing the best. Good news.


In the England regions the NW has the lowest R rate at 1.1 to 1.2

But EVERY region is over 1.

NE, SE and SW are the worst at 1.3 to 1.6

England overall is 1.2 to 1.5.

Though this data lags by a couple of weeks I think,
 
The booster programme proposed is, unless I have misunderstood it, with current vaccines.

Not sure why whether it's targeted to specific variants or not matters, as long as it works.
Because booster jabs need to be effective now and for months to come. There are a number of neutralising antibody reactions that have been KO'd by N501Y,K417N,E484K mutations. We now need high levels of the remaining functional antibodies to protect ourselves. If you can produce an up to date vaccine, then you turn the clock back, and with very high levels of exposure to the virus in the population you'd expect much lower levels of mutation in the future.
 
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