Coronavirus (2021) thread

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

View attachment 31369

Strickland Banks says ‘good afternoon’...

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

You could include all of them and it wouldn't match about an hours worth of Covid on a quiet day.

And you'd be wrong.

 

[hcblue95]

And you'd be wrong.

Have you got any evidence?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Have you got any evidence?

He doesn’t need any. He’s ALWAYS right.

 

[grunge]

And you'd be wrong.

1 in 100k had blood clots from AZ. so about 200 in the UK.

Myocarditis is About 1 in 200k.

I edit to say about a days worth of hospitalisations in total rather than a hour of 1 day. but at most its a few hours worth of covid admissions, certainly in Jan.

 

[inbetween]

Depends on how many blood clots and myocarditis incidents you want to report and include.

We'd be even better if they provable worked for more than 3 months without any side effects and we didn't need the same jab as a booster every time there's a new variant despite it not being adapted or tested against it.

Maybe if the 2 jabs just worked then fewer vaccinated and unvaccinated people would have less doubts.

You cannot under-report episodes of blood clots or myocarditis, these are serious conditions that aren't just swept under the carpet. I think you're confusing here myth and anecdotes with reality. There is no epidemic of such conditions that can be directly linked to the vaccines because usually there's something else present.

The one thing that is often present with these severe conditions is a history of COVID infection and COVID can cause all of them. Blood clots are present in almost 20% of people who are hospitalised with COVID. Heart inflammation and other effects are present in 10% of people who continue to suffer from long-COVID.

These doubts are therefore bordering on total stupidity. To say you shouldn't get a vaccine and somehow take your chances with COVID when the consequences of that are FAR more severe is completely mad.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

But - more seriously than I was trying to say above - I agree the virus is not going away now and we will have to find an equilibrium with it - but the number of mutations it is going through show how surprisingly adaptable it is. We cannot presume vulnerability will remain in stasis. It could mutate (and may even already have done so) into a form targetting the ones it has not yet got to and might mutate further in ways that make illness more serious in them).

We have to react to it with our knowledge and science and do things that protect the community not just some.

I agree we also need society to live as normally as possible now. I do not expect we will ever see a full lockdown again unless a doomsday variant arrives. Which I doubt it will. But could by chance. In the meantime we have to take some measures in mid winter to keep the NHS able to deal with the thousand other things in this period that people will need it for. Being swamped by patients who likely will survive may still kill others by defaut. That is why we are doing what we are now. To slow this highly infectious wave down. Not to stop it. That is now impossible.

If we had 500,000 cases a day not 50,000 it will not matter how much milder it usually is if that fills up all beds in a few days by sheer weight of numbers. As 1% of a million is still 10,000 and at that rate the NHS will be swamped in a week.

The UK has cut its hospital bed capacity by 53 per cent in the last 30 years at a time when people are living longer and need more complex medical help. Our problems are self-induced just like all the other issues we face with our crumbling infrastructure. It is really a beds and staffing crisis rather than a "Covid crisis." It is the result of decades of political incompetence (by all parties)

NHS hospital bed numbers

The number of hospital beds in England has more than halved over the past 30 years. This explainer looks at data on hospital beds, explores the drivers underpinning the changes it shows, and considers whether further reductions to bed numbers are realistic.

www.kingsfund.org.uk

 

[splinter]

The UK has cut its hospital bed capacity by 53 per cent in the last 30 years at a time when people are living longer and need more complex medical help. Our problems are self-induced just like all the other issues we face with our crumbling infrastructure. It is really a beds and staffing crisis rather than a "Covid crisis." It is the result of decades of political incompetence (by all parties)

NHS hospital bed numbers

The number of hospital beds in England has more than halved over the past 30 years. This explainer looks at data on hospital beds, explores the drivers underpinning the changes it shows, and considers whether further reductions to bed numbers are realistic.

www.kingsfund.org.uk

Add to that 10 million more people living in the UK since 2000

 

[M18CTID]

I agree in principle but what happens when the healthcare system in overloaded and then its stops becoming health care for all? It becomes triage and basically healthcare for those with covid. People with cancer are having their treatments deferred sometimes to the point of no return.

I will add, i dont think it will ever be a case of denied treatment for people with covid with no vaccine

You’re right. It won’t ever come to that because the NHS is impartial. For example, a terrorist who gets apprehended and requires hospital treatment will receive the same level of care that all his/her innocent victims get. That doesn’t mean we can’t debate the pros and cons of such a system and if people think the anti-vaxx Covid-denying loons should pay for any hospital treatment if they catch Covid then there’s nothing wrong with that viewpoint IMO.

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

Obviously not yet proven but the evidence to date from South Africa quite strongly indicates that Omicron is much less severe than Delta. Most hospitalisations are ‘incidental’ and patients are in for unrelated conditions.

South African Covid cases up 255% in a week as Omicron spreads

Private healthcare provider says symptoms in country’s fourth wave are far milder than in previous waves

www.theguardian.com

 

[Gremlin]

Obviously not yet proven but the evidence to date from South Africa quite strongly indicates that Omicron is much less severe than Delta. Most hospitalisations are ‘incidental’ and patients are in for unrelated conditions.

South African Covid cases up 255% in a week as Omicron spreads

Private healthcare provider says symptoms in country’s fourth wave are far milder than in previous waves

www.theguardian.com

Whilst obviously good news, it cannot be looked at in isolation. For instance, if each infection was half as likely to require hospitalisation (because it was less severe) but it caused twice as many infections in a given period (because it was more transmissable) then the net effect would be the same number of hopitalisations as a nominally more severe current variant.

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

Whilst obviously good news, it cannot be looked at in isolation. For instance, if each infection was half as likely to require hospitalisation (because it was less severe) but it caused twice as many infections in a given period (because it was more transmissable) then the net effect would be the same number of hopitalisations as a nominally more severe current variant.

Except this report states that hospitalisations don’t generally require oxygen or intensive care. Clearly more evidence is required but I’d suggest that would be a better outcome.

 

[blueparrot]

Whilst obviously good news, it cannot be looked at in isolation. For instance, if each infection was half as likely to require hospitalisation (because it was less severe) but it caused twice as many infections in a given period (because it was more transmissable) then the net effect would be the same number of hopitalisations as a nominally more severe current variant.

Yes, but the same amount of hospitalisations are just about manageable, and with boosters for older groups and anti viral treatments for those needing them are becoming more manageable.
So it could be good news, hopefully.

 

[hilts]

Don't admit them to hospital.

Lock them in their house and let them die.

Fuck me that’s harsh




Some poor fucker might actually live with them, put them on a trolley take them into the lift then lock the fuckers in the morgue. Good time management.

 

[hilts]

Lovely

I know people not caring about people who don’t care about people

Shocking

 

[hilts]

From a purely debate point of view, For me the interesting angle to this argument is that AntiVaxxers have already turned down treatment for the issue. Should the NHS be requirered to provide alternative treatments because some people decided they didn't like the treatment on offer?

Excellent point, fuck em.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Depends on how many blood clots and myocarditis incidents you want to report and include.

We'd be even better if they provable worked for more than 3 months without any side effects and we didn't need the same jab as a booster every time there's a new variant despite it not being adapted or tested against it.

Maybe if the 2 jabs just worked then fewer vaccinated and unvaccinated people would have less doubts.

The first paragraph is pure antivax bollocks.
People get clots and myocarditis without catching covid or having a jab. You have to compare all 3 groups to work out risk.
The fact antivaxers don't understand the PROVEN maths behind vaccine risk calculations, so don't believe it is a fucking tragedy in my book.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Professor Edmunds, who is a member of SPI-B the group that advises SAGE on behavioural science, said he expected the new variant would cause a large number of cases, hospitalisations and deaths over the next two months.

He also rejected the idea that the spread of Omicron could end up being a "Christmas gift" if it turned out to cause a milder form of disease.

"This is as bad news as you can possibly get quite frankly," he said.

 

[M18CTID]

Yes, but the same amount of hospitalisations are just about manageable, and with boosters for older groups and anti viral treatments for those needing them are becoming more manageable.
So it could be good news, hopefully.

I know it’s still probably too early to say but I’m finding these stories regarding Omicron perhaps being less severe quite encouraging. Short-term, it might lead to an issue with hospitalisations but long-term it could be our way out of this pandemic if it becomes the dominant strain.

 

[Gabriel]