COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

It's a virus that causes a disease.
There are several different potential outcomes from any vaccine on a spectrum from making the disease worse(highly unlikely) to complete protection from the virus in most preventing onward transmission.
It is quite possible that the vaccine could protect you from severe forms of the disease but do less to prevent onward transmission. It is also possible that the vaccine gives you protection but not over a long period.
All viruses mutate some mutate to avoid the immune response successfully others have not no one knows whether that will happen with Covid, it is possible but by no means certain.

Sadly making the disease worse isn't highly unlikely. I saw briefly an interview with a Japanese expert (but can't find it now) who says it should take 10 years to develop something like this and rushing a solution could change the virus into something worse. Also this from Scientific American ...

" Aside from questions of safety that attend any vaccine, there are good reasons to be especially cautious for COVID-19. Some vaccines worsen the consequences of infection rather than protect, a phenomenon called antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). ADE has been observed in previous attempts to develop coronavirus vaccines. To add to the concern, antibodies typical of ADE are present in the blood of some COVID-19 patients. "

 

[Len Rum]

Err... the government

Coronavirus: For every three COVID-19 deaths, lockdown may have caused another two

For every three deaths caused by coronavirus, there were another two caused by the impact of the lockdown, a report says.

www.google.co.uk

I really hate to be the told you so guy but I did say there will be many needless deaths because of lockdown months ago.

16,000 of the total are likely because of the actual lockdown, 16,000.

Hello mate.
I understand that as a Tory you 're desperate to see the death numbers reduced by any means. But to rely on spurious random statements from this Government to somehow reduce the numbers is disingenuous even by your standards.
Let me tell you how I see it ( I may be proved wrong by independent analysis but I'll restrict myself to published data):
41k Govt minimalist figures plus 16k deaths where there was no positive test, equals 57k deaths as reported by the ONS from death certificates. Then a further 9k deaths where because of statistical reasons covid is suspected ( but not confirmed ) to have caused death. Total excess deaths therefore 66k.

 

[Keith Moncrieff]

Flu numbers have seemed to be added on to Covid statistics. Agenda going on?

 

[Cityfan]

Sadly making the disease worse isn't highly unlikely. I saw briefly an interview with a Japanese expert (but can't find it now) who says it should take 10 years to develop something like this and rushing a solution could change the virus into something worse. Also this from Scientific American ...

" Aside from questions of safety that attend any vaccine, there are good reasons to be especially cautious for COVID-19. Some vaccines worsen the consequences of infection rather than protect, a phenomenon called antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). ADE has been observed in previous attempts to develop coronavirus vaccines. To add to the concern, antibodies typical of ADE are present in the blood of some COVID-19 patients. "

The reason why I said it was highly unlikely is because antibody dependent enhancement appears rare. It is probably of clinical importance in Dengue fever.
The vaccinologists have not reported it in the animal models of the vaccines they are developing , the phase 3 trials which should take nothing like 10 years should give further reassurance.
In the meantime if it was likely to be a practical problem with covid convalescent plasma would make the condition worse when it appears to make it better.

 

[Ban-jani]

Hello mate.
I understand that as a Tory you 're desperate to see the death numbers reduced by any means. But to rely on spurious random statements from this Government to somehow reduce the numbers is disingenuous even by your standards.
Let me tell you how I see it ( I may be proved wrong by independent analysis but I'll restrict myself to published data):
41k Govt minimalist figures plus 16k deaths where there was no positive test, equals 57k deaths as reported by the ONS from death certificates. Then a further 9k deaths where because of statistical reasons covid is suspected ( but not confirmed ) to have caused death. Total excess deaths therefore 66k.

You went wrong with “as a Tory”, I’m not a Tory, I cannot stand this government and I didn’t vote for them. In fact I’ve only voted for them once in my life and it hasn’t been in a recent election.

I know it’s easy to do but I wouldn’t presume everyone who disagrees with your position is a Tory.

I’m not desperate for anything other than accurate reporting of the numbers and I’ve criticised the government for their policy on such. I think it’s a disgrace there’s thousands of families who think their loved ones died of COVID, when it was something else.

Excess deaths is a terrible method to measure actual COVID deaths, we’re in unprecedented times with the entire population in lockdown for several months, these deaths cannot be attributed directly to the virus without a test.

 

[Healdplace]

The International Society of Infectious Diseases - whoever they are - is suggesting the virus has mutated recently (especially in Europe) and is now more infectious than it was but less deadly.

No idea how credible this is. But it would fit what we are seeing.

As does the WHO statement today that globally under 50s are now driving up the case numbers pretty much everywere as these are as we have long known less likely to get very sick or die than those older.

Also that, whilst still infectious, a high percentage of them are asymptomatic as they spread it.

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

It’s incredibly frustrating to hear that so many died due to the lockdown and not the virus itself.

I agree, i do know any deaths going through hospital were recorded as covid deaths, and this includes someone who died on a motorbike.

A friend on the covid ward at Tameside Hospital advised they were doing this for safety towards those dealing with the bodies

 

[Cityfan]

I agree, i do know any deaths going through hospital were recorded as covid deaths, and this includes someone who died on a motorbike.

A friend on the covid ward at Tameside Hospital advised they were doing this for safety towards those dealing with the bodies

There is a huge difference between treating patients who come into hospital as potentially having covid including for the disposal of the body which is a very proper infection control method and recording a death as being from covid when it is from a road traffic accident . Which would be highly unusual.

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

There is a huge difference between treating patients who come into hospital as potentially haveing covid including for the disposal of the body which is a very porper infection control method and recording a death as being from covid when it is from a road traffic accident . Which would be highly unusual.

i know there is a huge difference.

But i am saying they reported someone who died in a motorbike accident as someone who died of a RTA on a motorbike

 

[shemnel]

well, whatever the total deaths from covid-19 are stated as from day to day, i will always subtract 1.

My family member passed in May after a 22 year fight against kidney failure and the myriad problems that grew as a result of having no kidneys for some years. At the turn of the new year he was blatantly not going to see out 2020.

Imagine my surprise when, after 22 years of avoiding colds, flu and all sorts, he passes quietly in the night but is deemed to have died from covid. On his death certificate it goes. No positive test (no test at all) as none is needed.

As calmly as i can, i would say this was b'cos it would have been quite complicated to ascertain cause of death from someone with that many complications, and covid was the 'easy' way out for a coroner utterly swamped with work. Maybe. I cannot accept that covid killed this man, or that he even had it. His wife, daughter and grandson obviously remained fine.

so, death total up or down, it will always have one less in my eyes. I predict i am not alone with this story.