COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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bluejon said:
https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

as for the excess deaths quoted above, nowhere in the sky article, or the ONS figures, does it provide the standard deviation of the results which is the required context to see whether or not the deaths are within normal figures. I'm sure you already know this, but for anyone who doesn't, anything within two standard deviations of the mean is considered within normal bounds. without that number the excess death figure means nothing
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Thanks , i am not seeing what you are seeing

Lumped in with europe is not helpful when reviewing our data also all ages is miles more than the average

The ONS is the best source we have for uk numbers
 
kaz7 said:
Only cornwall is very low and as a region can be protected given there is only a couple of ways in and out , it is easily protected from the rest of england
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How will Cornwall be able to function when it's effectively isolated from the rest of the UK ?
 
kaz7 said:
I feel sure they are both mixing with other people , it is this attitude that spreads it
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As opposed to saying mass protests were ok a few months ago? One person is in tier 1 and one in tier 2, there's virtually no risk. The reason the rules allow no role for leeway is that some will take the piss, he clearly isn't and the fact that the question is being asked shows a good degree of responsibility.
 
True_Blue69 said:
As opposed to saying mass protests were ok a few months ago? One person is in tier 1 and one in tier 2, there's virtually no risk. The reason the rules allow no role for leeway is that some will take the piss, he clearly isn't and the fact that the question is being asked shows a good degree of responsibility.
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True , if they can resist contact then do it , this is why the mixing of households is not allowed, because you relax and hug and all that , it is difficult i know
 
mosssideblue said:
What's your solution? As I see it, we either lock the whole country down and enforce it or we continue infinitum as people continue to do as they please
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Possibly local lockdowns but with more restrictions than now to try and limit numbers in hospitals. IMO we cant keep doing national lockdowns for ever in the hope of a vaccine sometime that may or may not work for some of the population, the flu vaccine doesn't work for all, pretty sure that the majority of scientists I have read or heard have said people shouldn't expect any vaccine to be a silver bullet for that very reason.

Perhaps we need to start putting better measures in to protect the elderly and vulnerable, but if im honest im not sure that can be achieved. The risk to the young and healthy is very low perhaps we need to just let them get on with their lives? I don't think even the current situation is sustainable economically or socially for another 6 months let alone 9 or 12 months and more national lockdowns just delay the inevitable as I think we are are going to get this virus sooner rather than later as its running rampant thru every European country. No politician wants to make these calls, but I think we have some very hard decisions to make in the coming months. I also think for that very reason we should be bringing other political parties into the decision making and inviting Starmer, Sturgeon etc into the cabinet.
 
Regional scoreboard:

London 2477 - up from 2019 to highest London total yet.

Midlands 2578 - up from 2228 to highest total here.

North East 1021 - down from 1162

Yorkshire 3765 - up from 3565

North West has fallen to 4991 from 5322.

But GM has not had a good day within that fall unfortunately. As you will see in a moment.
 
kaz7 said:
The way to live with it is to supress it as much as possible throughout the winter , the nhs gets really stretched in winter normally , add covid and it could literally collapse , we have to consider the front line workers as well, no solution is great, depends on what you value higher , life or the economy , the economy can recover , businesses can diversify , i would rather be out of work for a while than dead

The tier system is not what sage have advised, it is a clusterfuck , we need a clear message, a firebreak where everyone knows what the score is , use the time to sort out track and trace , fire harding and get someone competent in, have a proper exit plan not free for all that was the exit plan in the summer

Tier whatever plus , back to one metre plus but not two metres, god give me strength
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I really respect that view - but it simply does not seem the most sensible way to me - although I accept that I am just viewing it as a 'citizen'.

I get the input from Sage is a very important - perhaps the most important - input, but it can only be one input as part of an overall decision making process.

There needs to be other inputs, from the wider DH and NHS and also from Local Authorities and economic advisors etc.

There should be some form of 'balanced' way of calculating things - because some regions may be more vulnerable than others for different reasons. As an example - people talk about Cornwall - because it has a low rate of infections - but, but maybe it also has a lower number of ventilators or ICU beds than other regions which may mean that it gets placed into lockdown for a slightly different balance of factors than another region.

A national lockdown just seems like a knee-jerk reaction/crude analysis to me - and if we have to live with this for possibly years to come we surely cannot keep snapping into national lockdowns.

The points that you make about track and trace etc. are spot on - but that seems to just be incompetence and it needs properly sorting - they have been fucking up for months - so I cannot see why a national lockdown for a few weeks is some guarantee to get it working. Some heads need to roll and others put in charge - FFS it is not exactly bleeding edge technology.

Anyway - that is my thinking - do 'a' tiering system - both for entering and leaving lockdown - and do it well - not this repetitious incompetence we have been seeing
 
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Churchlawtonblue said:
Possibly local lockdowns but with more restrictions than now to try and limit numbers in hospitals. IMO we cant keep doing national lockdowns for ever in the hope of a vaccine sometime that may or may not work for some of the population, the flu vaccine doesn't work for all, pretty sure that the majority of scientists I have read or heard have said people shouldn't expect any vaccine to be a silver bullet for that very reason.

Perhaps we need to start putting better measures in to protect the elderly and vulnerable, but if im honest im not sure that can be achieved. The risk to the young and healthy is very low perhaps we need to just let them get on with their lives? I don't think even the current situation is sustainable economically or socially for another 6 months let alone 9 or 12 months and more national lockdowns just delay the inevitable as I think we are are going to get this virus sooner rather than later as its running rampant thru every European country. No politician wants to make these calls, but I think we have some very hard decisions to make in the coming months. I also think for that very reason we should be bringing other political parties into the decision making and inviting Starmer, Sturgeon etc into the cabinet.
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Your last sentence is spot on,however we move forward it needs full agreement and that may actually get more public onside to follow within the rules rather than pushing them to the limits.
 
German partly lockdown from 2-30 November (nationwide!):

We cannot anymore identify where infections happen for 75% of new cases,
therefore we want to reduce 75% of all contacts,
in order to keep
- economy, shops, hairdressers, schools and kindergarten open.

New restrictions:
- max 10 person may meet from not more than 2 households, in- and outdoors.
- hospitality all closed, food delivery only
- cultural activities like theaters all closed, also gyms and amateur sports
- professional sports only without any fans
- parties (also at home) are unacceptable
- touristic travel is unwelcome
- domestic overnight stay only allowed on a private basis
(- religious services may be held)
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Possibly local lockdowns but with more restrictions than now to try and limit numbers in hospitals. IMO we cant keep doing national lockdowns for ever in the hope of a vaccine sometime that may or may not work for some of the population, the flu vaccine doesn't work for all, pretty sure that the majority of scientists I have read or heard have said people shouldn't expect any vaccine to be a silver bullet for that very reason.

Perhaps we need to start putting better measures in to protect the elderly and vulnerable, but if im honest im not sure that can be achieved. The risk to the young and healthy is very low perhaps we need to just let them get on with their lives? I don't think even the current situation is sustainable economically or socially for another 6 months let alone 9 or 12 months and more national lockdowns just delay the inevitable as I think we are are going to get this virus sooner rather than later as its running rampant thru every European country. No politician wants to make these calls, but I think we have some very hard decisions to make in the coming months. I also think for that very reason we should be bringing other political parties into the decision making and inviting Starmer, Sturgeon etc into the cabinet.
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The whole point is delaying it , to protect the nhs in winter and get through to spring , preventing 1,000 people dying every day

Again i say the vulnerable include large swaths of the very people looking after us , they cannot be protected , it is the most meaningness thing said on here, it is not practical

The young and fit can catch and spread it , that is the clearest thing we know , they have to be part of the solution not allowed to just get on with their lives , they are a big part of the jigsaw, we are all in this together
 
crublue1 said:
Not a delicate decision in my book.
94 years of age. He's coming for christmas. End of.
Any objections to be filed in the uncompassionate twat bin of uncompassionateless twats.
Enjoy your xmas mate
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Yeah - spot on - I was only being politically correct on a forum when suggesting that I might not go and get him

I am so lucky that he has all of his faculties - sharp as a needle and physically active.

But I saw a deterioration after the spring lockdown and I will not risk a repeat
 
kaz7 said:
The whole point is delaying it , to protect the nhs in winter and get through to spring , preventing 1,000 people dying every day

Again i say the vulnerable include large swaths of the very people looking after us , they cannot be protected , it is the most meaningness thing said on here, it is not practical

The young and fit can catch and spread it , that is the clearest thing we know , they have to be part of the solution not allowed to just get on with their lives , they are a big part of the jigsaw, we are all in this together
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We are all going to get this virus sooner or later so why not let those least at risk get on with their lives while doing more to protect the vulnerable. I repeat what we are doing isn't sustainable for another 6-12 months. If we want a future for our children very hard decisions are going to have to be made im afraid Kaz
 
GM highlights:

Total is slightly down from yesterdays record but only by 77 to 2529 and that is actually up to 51% of the NW total.

GM is contributing almost half as many cases again as it did 10 days/two weeks ago during the argument over entering tier 3 whilst Merseyside's numbers since accepting have continued to fall.

Hopefully the numbers will turn round in GM too as they need to do.

Today (other than Birmingham with 548 - which is pro rata to Manchester a good number (pop score up just 48 proves that) Manchester had the most cases in the UK (pop score up 80) . Even beating Bradford which has been pulling in big numbers and tops the UK red watch list.

But Manchester was not alone. Stockport is showing worrying signs of going the way of Wigan and today had yet another record number of cases.

GM also had three boroughs above 300 today and only 3 sub 200. The usual good boroughs bar Stockport.

Trafford had a pretty good day and made up lots of pop score points on Stockport and may actually now be very close to having the best Weekly Pop score in GM knocking Stockport off a perch it has been on for months.

If I see Elise I will ask why this is happening. Hopefully she has been made aware.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
We are all going to get this virus sooner or later so why not let those least at risk get on with their lives while doing more to protect the vulnerable. I repeat what we are doing isn't sustainable for another 6-12 months. If we want a future for our children very hard decisions are going to have to be made im afraid Kaz
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How do you intend to protect the vulnerable exactly!
 
kaz7 said:
It is winter and a lot of it closes , it is used to being quieter ,in and out for work and business but nothing else, it is doable for two or three weeks
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How on earth could that be enforced when there's thousands of journeys to and fro every day ?Let alone railway commuters. In reality it's just not workable. Probably for the same reasons other borders haven't been closed within the UK.
Also I'd imagine that the tourist industry would argue strongly about the idea that it's only partially open during winter.

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crublue1 said:
I'm not sure about that one mate, it's science. But yeah, i'll stick my neck out and say that vitamin d wont pass through glass. I'm probably wrong, it has been known lol
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It’s the UVB rays which don’t pass through glass. When our skin is in direct sunlight, the UVB rays hit the skin and triggers a reaction which converts a type of cholesterol in our skin into Vitamin D3.
 
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St.Pauli support said:
German partly lockdown from 2-30 November (nationwide!):

We cannot anymore identify where infections happen for 75% of new cases,
therefore we want to reduce 75% of all contacts,
in order to keep
- economy, shops, hairdressers, schools and kindergarten open.

New restrictions:
- max 10 person may meet from not more than 2 households, in- and outdoors.
- hospitality all closed, food delivery only
- cultural activities like theaters all closed, also gyms and amateur sports
- professional sports only without any fans
- parties (also at home) are unacceptable
- touristic travel is unwelcome
- domestic overnight stay only allowed on a private basis
(- religious services may be held)
Click to expand...

How has the country reacted to that? Anger, or acceptance that something is needed?
 
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