CSKA Post Match Thread

[Chippy_boy]

I was so fuming mad last night and like others probably said some things I shouldn't have.

But honestly all this blaming the ref is just rubbish. We started the game with the single objective of coming away with a win, no matter how, no matter what happens, only a win. And we failed. It's really as simple as that.

Ask yourself, would Chelsea have come away with a win? You know they would. So blaming the ref is a lame excuse. Really lame.

The thing that makes this slip up so acutely painful is that it's exactly the same shit they we keep churning out. Real Madrid away, Bayern away this season, Sporting away, Napoli away etc etc etc. We've seen it all so many times before and nothing seems to change.

 

[George Hannah]

I still cannot see why Pllegrini doesn't just go with all 3 of Fernandinho, Fernando and Toure in Europe.... Its fucking staggering.

we were leading last night until we changed to that line up

 

[blueinsa]

I was so fuming mad last night and like others probably said some things I shouldn't have.

But honestly all this blaming the ref is just rubbish. We started the game with the single objective of coming away with a win, no matter how, no matter what happens, only a win. And we failed. It's really as simple as that.

Ask yourself, would Chelsea have come away with a win? You know they would. So blaming the ref is a lame excuse. Really lame.

The thing that makes this slip up so acutely painful is that it's exactly the same shit they we keep churning out. Real Madrid away, Bayern away this season, Sporting away, Napoli away etc etc etc. We've seen it all so many times before and nothing seems to change.

A win, no matter how, only a win and we would have got it if not for the corrupt ref.

You can not account for a corrupt ref!

 

[willipp]

I was so fuming mad last night and like others probably said some things I shouldn't have.

But honestly all this blaming the ref is just rubbish. We started the game with the single objective of coming away with a win, no matter how, no matter what happens, only a win. And we failed. It's really as simple as that.

Ask yourself, would Chelsea have come away with a win? You know they would. So blaming the ref is a lame excuse. Really lame.

The thing that makes this slip up so acutely painful is that it's exactly the same shit they we keep churning out. Real Madrid away, Bayern away this season, Sporting away, Napoli away etc etc etc. We've seen it all so many times before and nothing seems to change.

A win, no matter how, only a win and we would have got it if not for the corrupt ref.

You can not account for a corrupt ref!

We'd of won if Yaya hadnt done a stupid flick on the edge of the box, we'd of won if Milner had scored into an almost empty net. To blame the ref just deflects from the real problem last night, and that was the manager and the players, not the ref. Even if the ref hadnt given that penalty, all that does is cover the cracks of how we perform in Europe. Simple facts are that we arent good enough in Europe.

 

[Sir peace frog]

I still cannot see why Pllegrini doesn't just go with all 3 of Fernandinho, Fernando and Toure in Europe.... Its fucking staggering.

we were leading last night until we changed to that line up

he did it too late , as soon as CSKA put two upfront he should of changed it then so we could control the midfield , by the time he changed it was too late , momentum had swung and they were back in the game.


there is no excuse for what went on in the second half , I cant think of one player who shone in the second half , we took our foot off the pedal and paid the price , the second half was fucking amateur by the players , coaches and manager, fucking criminal

 

[blueinsa]

I was so fuming mad last night and like others probably said some things I shouldn't have.

But honestly all this blaming the ref is just rubbish. We started the game with the single objective of coming away with a win, no matter how, no matter what happens, only a win. And we failed. It's really as simple as that.

Ask yourself, would Chelsea have come away with a win? You know they would. So blaming the ref is a lame excuse. Really lame.

The thing that makes this slip up so acutely painful is that it's exactly the same shit they we keep churning out. Real Madrid away, Bayern away this season, Sporting away, Napoli away etc etc etc. We've seen it all so many times before and nothing seems to change.

A win, no matter how, only a win and we would have got it if not for the corrupt ref.

You can not account for a corrupt ref!

We'd of won if Yaya hadnt done a stupid flick on the edge of the box, we'd of won if Milner had scored into an almost empty net. To blame the ref just deflects from the real problem last night, and that was the manager and the players, not the ref. Even if the ref hadnt given that penalty, all that does is cover the cracks of how we perform in Europe. Simple facts are that we arent good enough in Europe.

We wouldn't be mentioning yayas flick if the ref hadn't of given the worst decision I think I've ever seen and we wouldn't be taking about Milners miss had he given an absolute stonewall penalty and reduced them to 10 fucking men.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I was so fuming mad last night and like others probably said some things I shouldn't have.

But honestly all this blaming the ref is just rubbish. We started the game with the single objective of coming away with a win, no matter how, no matter what happens, only a win. And we failed. It's really as simple as that.

Ask yourself, would Chelsea have come away with a win? You know they would. So blaming the ref is a lame excuse. Really lame.

The thing that makes this slip up so acutely painful is that it's exactly the same shit they we keep churning out. Real Madrid away, Bayern away this season, Sporting away, Napoli away etc etc etc. We've seen it all so many times before and nothing seems to change.

A win, no matter how, only a win and we would have got it if not for the corrupt ref.

You can not account for a corrupt ref!

GIve your head a wobble. There's zero evidence he's corrupt any more than every other ref we have to put up with week in week out. If he had wanted to make sure CSKA won, he could have given offside for our 2nd goal, sent Fernando off for the foul that their cheating player was so obviously ham-acting to get a red for.

The fact is we stuffed up, end of. Time to stop moaning about others and take some responsibility. Silva was dreadful for most of the match, Dzeko likewise, Zabba uncharacteristically sloppy, Aguero missing for 45 minutes, Yaya shocking, Milner back to his usual hard working but low on quality, Kompany sloppy, Kolarov useless (1 cross was it all game, hit the man 5 yards in front of him 99 times), Fernando sloppy, Fernandino uninspiring, Navas ineffectual. Just another all round dismal European performance.

 

[willipp]

A win, no matter how, only a win and we would have got it if not for the corrupt ref.

You can not account for a corrupt ref!

We'd of won if Yaya hadnt done a stupid flick on the edge of the box, we'd of won if Milner had scored into an almost empty net. To blame the ref just deflects from the real problem last night, and that was the manager and the players, not the ref. Even if the ref hadnt given that penalty, all that does is cover the cracks of how we perform in Europe. Simple facts are that we arent good enough in Europe.

We wouldn't be mentioning yayas flick if the ref hadn't of given the worst decision I think I've ever seen and we wouldn't be taking about Milners miss had he given an absolute stonewall penalty and reduced them to 10 fucking men.

Quite possibly, but all that does is mask the problem. Were shit in Europe. Whether its our formation, our attitude or something else, we dont play well. Maybe Maicon should of been sent off against Roma, still doesnt hide the fact Roma ripped us to shreds. Second half yesterday we were dire against a very very poor side. Last season was the same there but we got away with it.

 

[George Hannah]

The fact is we stuffed up, end of. Time to stop moaning about others and take some responsibility. Silva was dreadful for most of the match, Dzeko likewise, Zabba uncharacteristically sloppy, Aguero missing for 45 minutes, Yaya shocking, Milner back to his usual hard working but low on quality, Kompany sloppy, Kolarov useless (1 cross was it all game, hit the man 5 yards in front of him 99 times), Fernando sloppy, Fernandino uninspiring, Navas ineffectual. Just another all round dismal European performance.

a fair description but the ref clinched it for them, no matter how wobbly our heads

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

This match brought together in one 90 minutes every disparate element of our unhappy experience in the champions' league. A club that would be the second strongest team in most other groups is the "whipping boy" of ours, and in a game to be played behind closed doors are cheered on by the best part of a thousand, beer swilling fans! The referee "misses" a clear penalty for City just before the break, but then awards Moscow a match saving non-penalty 5 minutes from the end.

But, in truth, City deserve no sympathy. We always do enough to save our opponents' skin. As in the league against Villa and Spurs we started off in relaxed manner, carelessly giving the ball away and politely stood aside to see if Moscow had got their shooting boots on. We tightened up, dominated the first half and went in two up.

What on earth did we do then! I believed, as most did, that Fernando and Fernandinho were at the club exactly to provide defensive solidarity in big, and especially, European matches, so that we weren't overrun in midfield, but in the first half, with only Fernando in the team we had few problems. On comes Fernandinho and we're a mess. Not that it was just Ferna's fault. Nor was it just Ya Ya's fault. It was the lot of them. We got into position, less rather than more, in two wonky lines, rather than banks, of four, but stood looking at the other lot. There was NEVER any pressure on the ball from anyone. We were statuesque. And we threw the game away.

 

[Sir peace frog]

We'd of won if Yaya hadnt done a stupid flick on the edge of the box, we'd of won if Milner had scored into an almost empty net. To blame the ref just deflects from the real problem last night, and that was the manager and the players, not the ref. Even if the ref hadnt given that penalty, all that does is cover the cracks of how we perform in Europe. Simple facts are that we arent good enough in Europe.

We wouldn't be mentioning yayas flick if the ref hadn't of given the worst decision I think I've ever seen and we wouldn't be taking about Milners miss had he given an absolute stonewall penalty and reduced them to 10 fucking men.

Quite possibly, but all that does is mask the problem. Were shit in Europe. Whether its our formation, our attitude or something else, we dont play well. Maybe Maicon should of been sent off against Roma, still doesnt hide the fact Roma ripped us to shreds. Second half yesterday we were dire against a very very poor side. Last season was the same there but we got away with it.

If Mr pellegrini insists on playing yaya in a midfield 2 against the better team then we deserve all we get , I can see it ,you can see it, Mr pellegrini is either stubborn or stupid.

as for roma ripping us to shreds , they didn't when we went to one upfront , what is the point of playing two upfront when one is expected to drop back , your asking a forward to do a midfielders job , stick fernandiho on , take Sergio ( bit of a rest)off at the start of the second half to combat their change of formation , its not fucking hard is it, very fucking frustrated about that second half last night , it was a fucking disgrace

 

[willipp]

We wouldn't be mentioning yayas flick if the ref hadn't of given the worst decision I think I've ever seen and we wouldn't be taking about Milners miss had he given an absolute stonewall penalty and reduced them to 10 fucking men.

Quite possibly, but all that does is mask the problem. Were shit in Europe. Whether its our formation, our attitude or something else, we dont play well. Maybe Maicon should of been sent off against Roma, still doesnt hide the fact Roma ripped us to shreds. Second half yesterday we were dire against a very very poor side. Last season was the same there but we got away with it.

If Mr pellegrini insists on playing yaya in a midfield 2 against the better team then we deserve all we get , I can see it ,you can see it, Mr pellegrini is either stubborn or stupid.

as for roma ripping us to shreds , they didn't when we went to one upfront , what is the point of playing two upfront when one is expected to drop back , your asking a forward to do a midfielders job , stick fernandiho on , take Sergio ( bit of a rest)off at the start of the second half to combat their change of formation , its not fucking hard is it, very fucking frustrated about that second half last night , it was a fucking disgrace

Couldnt agree more. We insist on playing two up front against teams who set up to exploit our lack of midfield. We can all see whats happening and yet the one person who matters either can't see it or is too stubborn to change. I don't want to start slagging Pellers of, but he needs to adapt. We will beat CSKA, but then we will probably all be having the same conversation after the Bayern and Roma games.

 

[lancs blue]

I was so fuming mad last night and like others probably said some things I shouldn't have.

But honestly all this blaming the ref is just rubbish. We started the game with the single objective of coming away with a win, no matter how, no matter what happens, only a win. And we failed. It's really as simple as that.

Ask yourself, would Chelsea have come away with a win? You know they would. So blaming the ref is a lame excuse. Really lame.

The thing that makes this slip up so acutely painful is that it's exactly the same shit they we keep churning out. Real Madrid away, Bayern away this season, Sporting away, Napoli away etc etc etc. We've seen it all so many times before and nothing seems to change.

A win, no matter how, only a win and we would have got it if not for the corrupt ref.

You can not account for a corrupt ref!

If you insist in piling all the blame on the officials rather than the players you should at least point out that we wouldn't even have got a point last night but for that "corrupt" assistant failing to flag Zab offisde for the second goal.

 

[Lovebitesandeveryfing]

Deep breath.
O.k.
Following day.
Rage over.
So, time to take stock. Are we in fact the most naive team in this competition? I don’t say the weakest team. We are very far from being that. In terms of raw talent and skill, we are unquestionably in the top six or eight teams in the competition. We have just ended up first, second, then first again over the past three years, in what is by common consent the toughest domestic league in the world. In terms of quality assessment, there is no possible mistake about that.
And here we are on the point of going out at the group stage. Again. Because make no mistake, CSKA were not terrifying, (any more than they were last season) and Bayern will take the full six points off them, as will Roma. They will then battle it out to decide who finishes first in the group, who second. That already looks pretty settled. Roma won't give a toss about being pulverised. They get second, they go through. And please don’t let anyone make the excuse about the injustice of the pots. This group was doable. Difficult, but doable.
We then get either the poisoned chalice of Europa League football, or the wooden spoon. The wooden spoon! We are far — very far — from being credible contenders in this competition, because we are so incredibly naive.
There is a clear pattern emerging. We played a fine game at the Bernabeu three seasons back, could have won, could certainly have taken a point. We concede two goals in the dying minutes, we walk with nothing.
We play a fair game at the Allianz, outplayed but certainly not overrrun, we concede a goal in the dying seconds, we walk with nothing.
We get a dream start against Roma. They equalize. One point. At home. Pathetic.
We are two-nil up against Moscow, it’s in the bag. We concede two goals. One point. Absolutely pathetic.
Two points from three matches. That’s it. We’re out. We’re out for another year.
At this level, we seem to be completely incapable of managing games, of seeing them through, calmly, stubbornly. Inter under Mourinho, Chelsea two seasons back. Not great teams in terms of footballing skill, by any means, but they knew how to do this. They were canny in a way that we’re not, at all. Of course, it can be objected, knowing how to play a game out is part and parcel of footballing skill.
This road is going to be hard and long. A shitload to learn. This is not about skill. It’s mental, it’s in the mind , it’s about digging in, it’s about the sheer, bloody-minded decision “we do not lose this game”. It’s about doing what we did at Hull, Everton, and raising it to the power of Europe. Can we do that? Not for a long time, in my honest opinion. That’s not bitterness, just cold, hard realism.

 

[Matty]

So comfortable and in complete control in the first 45 minutes, so poor and struggling to cope in the second 45 minutes. It really is a concern how we just can't manage to put in a performance in Europe. There were mitigating circumstances yesterday, the fact we had to play behind closed doors must have been unusual for the players, and the fact that there was actually a fairly vocal home support anyway, and complete silence for us, was a bit of a farce. Plus there's no debating that, at 2-0 up, we had a stonewall penalty claim ignored, and they were given a ridiculous penalty with just 5 minutes left to go which, despite how poor we'd been, was the only reason we ended up losing. UEFA clearly have issues with City as a club, and you have to wonder at times whether that is manifesting itself in ways it really shouldn't.

 

[BillyShears]

Never seen so many people so quick to throw their own club/players/staff under the bus whilst ignoring the OBVIOUS reason we lost.

They scored a goal from a penalty that never was. In the last five minutes. This more than anything else on the night dictated the result.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Not so much the formation, although I still believe even Glenn Hoddle has it right when it comes to an extra man in midfield at this level, some players need to tweak their playing style.

In particular, Vinny, who might as well start now as he starts to get older.

He doesn't have to win every ball, he doesn't need to show that he has the ability to play his way out of trouble.

All he needs to do is take a couple of steps back in Europe and give himself a little more time.

A bit like the shambles which was the Brazil World Cup midfield, it can make top players look like clowns if you don't have the right balance.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

I was so fuming mad last night and like others probably said some things I shouldn't have.

But honestly all this blaming the ref is just rubbish. We started the game with the single objective of coming away with a win, no matter how, no matter what happens, only a win. And we failed. It's really as simple as that.

Ask yourself, would Chelsea have come away with a win? You know they would. So blaming the ref is a lame excuse. Really lame.

The thing that makes this slip up so acutely painful is that it's exactly the same shit they we keep churning out. Real Madrid away, Bayern away this season, Sporting away, Napoli away etc etc etc. We've seen it all so many times before and nothing seems to change.

A win, no matter how, only a win and we would have got it if not for the corrupt ref.

You can not account for a corrupt ref!

We'd of won if Yaya hadnt done a stupid flick on the edge of the box, we'd of won if Milner had scored into an almost empty net. To blame the ref just deflects from the real problem last night, and that was the manager and the players, not the ref. Even if the ref hadnt given that penalty, all that does is cover the cracks of how we perform in Europe. Simple facts are that we arent good enough in Europe.

Toure did exactly the same thing at Hull. He was caught deep trying to play a stupid pass and the ball came right back in which led to the penalty.

 

[Lavinda Past]

What Mangala is doing at their first goal.

What was Kompany doing?

Always rated as a world class defender, but always found out in europe. A good defender, but can't organise for shit, he's no Maldini.

Nail hit very fairly and very squarely on the head Voomer. Kompany looks like a headless chicken against CL teams - He tries to do too much and ends up f*cking up like he did for the first goal.

On the same line... David Silva - Was his brother playing instead of him last night? He couldn't pass diarrhoea. Looked like a little boy lost in a man's game.

We'll win nowt in Europe with the clueless Pellegrini in charge. He's even blaming the cold weather! Let's face it, the guy was out-thought tactically by Mark Hughes FFS.... And he still seems to think that Toure merits a place at the club. He should f*ck off back to engineering.

Two-bob performance thanks to a two-bob manager.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Deep breath.
O.k.
Following day.
Rage over.
So, time to take stock. Are we in fact the most naive team in this competition? I don’t say the weakest team. We are very far from being that. In terms of raw talent and skill, we are unquestionably in the top six or eight teams in the competition. We have just ended up first, second, then first again over the past three years, in what is by common consent the toughest domestic league in the world. In terms of quality assessment, there is no possible mistake about that.
And here we are on the point of going out at the group stage. Again. Because make no mistake, CSKA were not terrifying, (any more than they were last season) and Bayern will take the full six points off them, as will Roma. They will then battle it out to decide who finishes first in the group, who second. That already looks pretty settled. Roma won't give a toss about being pulverised. They get second, they go through. And please don’t let anyone make the excuse about the injustice of the pots. This group was doable. Difficult, but doable.
We then get either the poisoned chalice of Europa League football, or the wooden spoon. The wooden spoon! We are far — very far — from being credible contenders in this competition, because we are so incredibly naive.
There is a clear pattern emerging. We played a fine game at the Bernabeu three seasons back, could have won, could certainly have taken a point. We concede two goals in the dying minutes, we walk with nothing.
We play a fair game at the Allianz, outplayed but certainly not overrrun, we concede a goal in the dying seconds, we walk with nothing.
We get a dream start against Roma. They equalize. One point. At home. Pathetic.
We are two-nil up against Moscow, it’s in the bag. We concede two goals. One point. Absolutely pathetic.
Two points from three matches. That’s it. We’re out. We’re out for another year.
At this level, we seem to be completely incapable of managing games, of seeing them through, calmly, stubbornly. Inter under Mourinho, Chelsea two seasons back. Not great teams in terms of footballing skill, by any means, but they knew how to do this. They were canny in a way that we’re not, at all. Of course, it can be objected, knowing how to play a game out is part and parcel of footballing skill.
This road is going to be hard and long. A shitload to learn. This is not about skill. It’s mental, it’s in the mind , it’s about digging in, it’s about the sheer, bloody-minded decision “we do not lose this game”. It’s about doing what we did at Hull, Everton, and raising it to the power of Europe. Can we do that? Not for a long time, in my honest opinion. That’s not bitterness, just cold, hard realism.

Good post mate and I agree completely.

However, there is one question that remains unanswered to me. Are we Colin Montgomery, 7 times winner of the European order of merit and at the time almost certainly one of the best if not the best player in the world, yet for all his skill *completely* unable to ever win a major. He could have a 10 shot lead coming down the 18th on the last day and you just knew he'd break his leg or something. He just did not and never could have it in him to win a major. What started as a monkey on his back became a 400lb gorilla that he was never going to shake off.

So are we Monty? Or are we Rory McIlroy, who in 2011 shot the worst round in history by any professional golfer leading after the third round of the Masters. But who's talent ultimately shone through and who went on to win the US Open and having got the monkey off his back is now the undisputed world number 1 who wins majors for fun.

Are we one or two really good European wins away from it all clicking into place? Or is it NEVER going to click into place without radical surgery and effectively a whole new approach.

I fear we are Monty.