David Conn on Abu Dhabi and Human Rights

[Prestwich_Blue]

If there is any evidence to directly link Sheikh Mansour to it, let that be the article. Not some spurious bollocks about Khaldoon accompanying Sheikh Mohammed to discuss military cooperation and contracts.

That's a nonsensical position in many ways. Sheikh Mansour is part of the Abu Dhabi/UAE establishment. Of course he didn't beat or mistreat prisoners himself but he is part of the regime which does. You cannot deny that.

I've no problem with Abu Dhabi not being particularly democratic as I think that the Western model is not necessarily appropriate for all countries at a given point in time (if ever). But you of all people, one of the most politically aware posters on here, should be able to separate your love for City from justified criticism of human rights issues.

ADUG are very sensitive about bad press. Hopefully something like this will shock them into corrective action and doing the right thing. Surely that's something you should be supporting?

-- Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:15 pm --

Unfortunately such press only applies to the Muslim owner. All the others are running such perfect and honest business models.

Conn has been critical of a number of owners over their links or business models. He's being entirely consistent. It's hypocritical to praise him for exposing the Glazers' financial shenanigans and criticise him when he has a go at our owners.

I agree with most of your points PB - especially if people have been sent to prison just for asking to vote or defending those who did. David Conn has the right to write his article and we dont know if articles like will help the population of the UAE or not.

However, recent history is littered with disasters from attempts to impose Western values on the Middle East. Iraq is one of several such cases. There is a reason why these values are called Western although some Guardian readers may disagree. It would be no surprise if the Abu Dhabi Government are scared of the events in Egypt where rushing in to elections before political parties could get organised properly to represent the range of the populations interests is resulting in scores of deaths in the streets.

As others have said, there is no evidence that Sheikh Mansour or Khaldoon have done anything wrong at this point - and please don't give me a lecture about guilt by association.

Spot on Tim.

 

[S04]

Yup, horrible country UAE.
That´s why millions of their neighbours visit the country given any opportunity just to discover how horrible and disgustingly full of vice it is...

If any of you lads have worked there when the Saudis have their springbreak you know what I mean.

 

[cleavers]

I wonder if he'll now do an article on Barca's sponsor ?

 

[Rösler von Stretfordbömber]

Apologies if this point was made in the thread earlier (in a big rush ATM), but about David Conn: anyone who persistently glorifies the fans of FC Ushited and the "against modern football" movement has about zero moral authority to cast stones at anyone.

Maybe Conn doesn't get out and about the continent that much, but every time I see an AMF banner at a match somewhere in Europe it is in near proximity to Confederate flags, neo-nazi runes, and racist skinhead thugs. "Modern football" involving the cheering for people of different colour than these filth and all.

And about the bunch that supports FC Ushited nothing more needs to be said.

 

[Колобок]

just imagine what these BS sellers would write if our owners were Islamic fundamentalists themselves, like many regimes in Middle East. now it's that they have just fought a successful fight against turning their country into a box of crazed rabid cats, and they will still be slagged for this because they have sentenced several men to TEN FUCKING YEARS (or even less) in jail for treason.

 

[George Hannah]

I just think Mr Conn tucks into the City connection with rather too much relish. Almost as if all his other offerings were just the hors d'oeuvres to the main dish of cold revenge. Spite spread with hate and lashings of prejudice.

 

[BertTrautmann'sParachute]

I'd love to know what would happen in good old britain, if 94 senior people plotted to kick the queen out, and replace her (them) with some fundamentalist catholic (or even c of e) ruler with no democracy.

I don't imagine there would be any torture at all.......

I'm in!

 

[chorltonblue]

Conn is a turncoat anyway with a leftie hatred of our owners -you can see that clearly in his book Richer Than God. Trying to judge every country through a Western liberal democracy prism is a nonsense.

As for Conn, he should fuck off and go and support his beloved FC United.

So we can't judge Nazi Germany or anywhere bad because we live in a good country...?

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

Conn is a turncoat anyway with a leftie hatred of our owners -you can see that clearly in his book Richer Than God. Trying to judge every country through a Western liberal democracy prism is a nonsense.

As for Conn, he should fuck off and go and support his beloved FC United.

So we can't judge Nazi Germany or anywhere bad because we live in a good country...?

He can judge Abu Dhabi in the same way as he can judge half of the world as atrocities can occur anywhere, including Britain. It's just a matter of scale on what can be called on one hand, an atrocity, and on the other, a misjustice. But in the case of this article, Conn is engaged in a rant about Sheikh Mansour's ownership of City, a rant that covers about a quarter of the article and has no bearing on what is happening in Abu Dhabi.

I may be getting paranoid here, but I sense an agenda.

 

[bluesoup]

Why don't these guys just start writing about how united are potentially tax dodging registering the united empire in the Camen islands. Human rights? Where's our tax ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[SingBlue]

David

We know you read this forum, so here goes.

I know you are only a sports rather than a real journalist but you are supposed to be the "brainy one".(However low that bar maybe in the Guardian Sports Department)

When even the headline for your story contains two fundamental errors you need to look at yourself.

The headline reads

<<Human Rights Watch describes country ruled by City owner as 'a black hole' for basic human rights>>

1. Abu Dhabi isn't a country, just like Florida isn't a country. The country is the United Arab Emirates, of which AD is but one Emirate.

2. The City Owner does not rule either Abu Dhabi or the UAE.

Given the idiocy of the headline how informed can the rest of the article be?

On top of that, althpugh I will grant you perhaps this is more subjective Abu Dhabi is not a "black hole for human rights". I know this to be true because I live there and experience it every day.

I have also traveled to many countries that are becoming black holes for human rights. Russia, for instance, you know, the country that you probably think is "ruled" by Roman Abramovic.

Shame on you for such a shabby parroting of 3rd party publicity seeking.

What was the pitch? "Cut and paste this David, you'll look ever so clever."?

ctid

 

[Keith Moon]

Bet all of the 94 were rags...

 

[lancs blue]

Why don't these guys just start writing about how united are potentially tax dodging registering the united empire in the Camen islands. Human rights? Where's our tax ?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2012/jul/04/manchester-united-glazers-shares-debt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theguardian.com/football/blo ... hares-debt</a>

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Dear David Conn,

if you want to prove you're a balanced journalist further please write your next article on how worrying it has to be for the footballing community that along with all the other issues that Qatar can't even look after a footballer with appendicitis.

In footballing terms it has to be at least as big an issue if not more so.

 

[Anonymous]

If anyone's interested in what's going on behind the headlines. Conn's whole story is based around the arrest and subsequent torture of 94 people in the Emirates who were all either members of Al Islah or affiliated with the group.

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Islah" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Islah</a>

They preach a form of fundamentalist Islam which is one step away from the west's definition of terrorism. Personally I think a progressive state by middle eastern standards like Abu Dhabi taking a hardline approach to dickheads preaching regressive Islam should be applauded.

I'm not saying there aren't things which could be improved, but Conn's done a sensationalist con job. A fundamentally flawed article because he completely glosses over just how dangerous Al Islah actually are in what they're preaching.

 

[bluesoup]

Why don't these guys just start writing about how united are potentially tax dodging registering the united empire in the Camen islands. Human rights? Where's our tax ?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2012/jul/04/manchester-united-glazers-shares-debt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theguardian.com/football/blo ... hares-debt</a>

Well spotted from a year ago but, this is a narrative to the floatation - what about putting these lot into the same bracket as stealing Starbucks ? Now this is a story to write about David, or are you institutionalised into avoiding the hard and unpopular rag stories that are there for the taking?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

Compared to Thaksin, the current owner is like mother Theresa. Least we are heading the right way.

We are fortunate to live in a country that has been developing over centuries, and this makes it difficult to compare with nations still finding their identity. Whilst Thaksin's government was no doubt guilty of many human rights crimes, he also attempted to address the poverty and healthcare issues of the poor, and came to power in fair and free elections* (* although maybe not by our standards!). Internal criticism mainly stemmed from the rich establishment within Thailand, and much of the global human rights accusations as a result of his attempts to rid the country of the drug barons entrenched within his country. It is clear that all subsequent governments of Thailand appear to be having similar problems.

Of course I was still glad he sold his stake in City.

The new owners are, by comparison, an improvement, however their region is extremely volatile as we all know - democratic elections don't seem to be working too well in Egypt, for example, and western attempts to force democracy (Iraq, Afghanistan) have proved pathetically unworkable, often resulting in more harm than good. Whilst we all hope that the ultimate aim of these middle eastern nations is to offer a fair and free lifestyle for all, this will take time, and commercial (& non-military) partnerships might prove the best way. As fans, we should take note of these accusations, however.

 

[oldhamblue]

Had all this before with Thaksin. Are there any ethical fans out there who wouldn't support City because of stuff like this? They're the best owners in the world, so I don't give a toss if they're killing a thousand dissenters a day in their own country.

Football fans - don't you just love 'em.

I am flattered you joined this forum just to make a condescending reply to my post. I deliberately used an evocative and exaggerated statement to emphasise a point. In line with PB I don't think we are in any position to judge any other nation regarding how they treat their citizens. If people like Rascal can take an ethical stance on this issue then fair play to him. I just don't think the majority of fans do.

If you think Apple treat the employees who put their phones together badly, by paying them minimum wage, you can decide not to buy an iphone. Similarly don't use Primark or Nike because they use cheap labour, fair enough. Or don't use a certain supermarket or brand because all their staff are on zero hour contracts, then that's a choice we can all make as ethical consumers.

However as a City fan for 40 years it's not that easy. It's not just a brand I can walk away from. It's the club I've supported all my life. It's a way of life. A club that ruined my every weekend for years and years as we yo-yoed through divisions and were constantly ridiculed. Years and years of piss taking by rags every fecking Monday morning at work. But I wouldnt have it any other way. It's in my blood.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

If anyone's interested in what's going on behind the headlines. Conn's whole story is based around the arrest and subsequent torture of 94 people in the Emirates who were all either members of Al Islah or affiliated with the group.

<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Islah" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Islah</a>

They preach a form of fundamentalist Islam which is one step away from the west's definition of terrorism. Personally I think a progressive state by middle eastern standards like Abu Dhabi taking a hardline approach to dickheads preaching regressive Islam should be applauded.

I'm not saying there aren't things which could be improved, but Conn's done a sensationalist con job. A fundamentally flawed article because he completely glosses over just how dangerous Al Islah actually are in what they're preaching.

if this was about America it would be labelled a successful defence of national security.

 

[stonerblue]

Had all this before with Thaksin. Are there any ethical fans out there who wouldn't support City because of stuff like this? They're the best owners in the world, so I don't give a toss if they're killing a thousand dissenters a day in their own country.

Football fans - don't you just love 'em.

I am flattered you joined this forum just to make a condescending reply to my post. I deliberately used an evocative and exaggerated statement to emphasise a point. In line with PB I don't think we are in any position to judge any other nation regarding how they treat their citizens. If people like Rascal can take an ethical stance on this issue then fair play to him. I just don't think the majority of fans do.

If you think Apple treat the employees who put their phones together badly, by paying them minimum wage, you can decide not to buy an iphone. Similarly don't use Primark or Nike because they use cheap labour, fair enough. Or don't use a certain supermarket or brand because all their staff are on zero hour contracts, then that's a choice we can all make as ethical consumers.

However as a City fan for 40 years it's not that easy. It's not just a brand I can walk away from. It's the club I've supported all my life. It's a way of life. A club that ruined my every weekend for years and years as we yo-yoed through divisions and were constantly ridiculed. Years and years of piss taking by rags every fecking Monday morning at work. But I wouldnt have it any other way. It's in my blood.

oh look, a 'gooner' who thinks he/she's superior. Don't see many of them....