Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[Anonymous]

The point I am making here is that if the only thing I have to worry about is a cult of personality from our manager, I would suggest things aren't anything like as apocalyptic as suggested in some posts.

 

[gio's side step]

Re: Clueless manager

Can I ask a question, why the fuck are people complaining about Pellegrini for losing games like this when we've had the same underlying problem for nearly 5 years now.

We just can't break teams down that park the bus. We couldn't 4 years ago, we can't now. The Sunderland away fixture has been a fucking carbon copy three years running.

Our style of play and wastefulness is what is hurting us. The players have to take responsibility. Too much blame is thrown at the management. Both Mancini and Pellegrini have fielded teams more than capable of beating Sunderland away yet the players just haven't performed. It's their fault, nobody elses. A manager can prepare, pick a team, shape, tactics (we dominated them and never looked under that much pressure) but it's the players that can't beat the first man at corners, that waste clear chances, that choose the wrong pass or overhit it.

Fans are quick to jump on the manager and it's ridiculous, he can only do so much. Now he's being criticised for not playing Zabba. A fortnight ago people we're looking forward to Richards being back. He plays shit and suddenly its Pellegrini's fault for not playing Zabba. If Richards had scored the winner would he have been lamented for playing him over Zabba then? Of course he wouldn't.

I'm not defending Pellegrini, he didn't choose the team I would have but it doesn't matter a toss, he chose a team capable of beating Sunderland. The players didn't perform. Same at Cardiff & Villa.

The players are grown men that shouldn't need someone on the bench dictating their every move and making decisions for them, they are given a general plan and then have to perform. They haven't performed and that is it.

In the first half, Sunderland didn't park the bus.

 

[adrianr]

People need to go back to how we felt BEFORE yesterday's game. Optimistic, content, whatever - we were coming off some good results and seeing some great football. Another win and we're sitting pretty to challenge for the top spot - everyone could feel it.

Then we go and lose. All of a sudden the world has caved in, all our players are crap, Mancini wouldn't have taken us backwards and now some are calling for the manager's head!

The point is, this change in opinion is down to ONE game. This is a crazy start to the season. No team is yet running away with it, and there's no reason to believe it can't be us that string a run together. A poor result it certainly was, however, and it is certainly apparent that MP has not yet worked out how the Premier League works - surely lower positioned teams are supposed to roll over for us, like they do in La Liga. I would hope he now sees that the best team doesn't always win, that you need to know how to grind out results when needed. If he can't see the need for a Bellamy or Tevez type character to dictate play, and not a like-for-like Silva playmaker, then we will continue to struggle.

However you look at it though, we started the day 6pts behind the leaders, and ended the day the same. That is a get-out-of-jail card, better not f*ck it up from here.

Perhaps a bit of false optimism? It's like people on here are in shock at the moment, unable to contemplate just how poor our start to this campaign has been. Either that or they're still so dead set in this outer/inner rubbish that they'll support Pellegrini to the hilt no matter what. Chelsea loosing to Newcastle should have been the lifeline this team needed to shake itself out of whatever rut it's in away from home and take the league by the scruff of the neck. We have now lost FOUR matches. Our team should be looking at barely any more than 5 losses over an entire season - 38 games. We're 80% of the way there already and we've not even hit Christmas!! Even in the seasons the rags started poorly, but keeping an unerring consistency to hammer out results, I'll bet you can't find a season they won where they started this poorly. Even if you buy into the theory this will be the lowest winning points total of any league, we can afford maybe as many as 8 losses, look who we've lost against and where we still have to go. Anfield, Goodison, WHL, Emirates, Swamp, St Mary's, Liberty.. Not really be turning up there and smashing it in the past have we?

This really is one of the few times a full on meltdown on here is fully justified. We were favourites in the eyes of everyone, rightly so, and Pellegrini is pissing it all up the wall whilst bumbling around repeating 'I can't believe it, I don't understand how we lost'. I didn't put much stock in the whole learning the Premier League lark before he came, as if it was some top secret brand of football no-one else understood, but when you see us going up against teams that aren't interested in just being passed around, are willing to dig in and battle, defend and attack set pieces equally well, and Pellegrini is harping on about only one team looking to play football, well, starting to wonder if it's true after all. Maybe some managers just aren't cut out for it.

David Moyes is now above us in the league even after loosing to us. Just let that sink in for a second.

What do you want Pellegrini to say after a defeat? I've seen criticism on here because of his demeanour on the bench when he's watching the game. This is pretty low stuff, and not what I would expect from City fans

You listen to Wenger, Moyes or any top manager after a defeat. Do they make much sense? Mourinho has plenty of excuses and rants but they are even worse than silence.

The only place to sort it out is on the pitch and and training ground, and the only place for words and explanation is the dressing room when the manager has had time to reflect and digest events. Fans want rational explanations for defeat, but maybe these things are just not possible in the immediate aftermath of a defeat.

I want to give Pellegrini a chance but I can not understand how we can have dominated every game (with exception of Stoke) in terms of possession and shots and come away with so few points. The results reflect some bad luck, or defending and poor attacking play. They are also in pat anomalous.

If we were to pay WBA tomorrow away (our next away game), would you expect to win, lose or draw?

Low perhaps, but unsurprising. Fans are passionate people. To see a manager lose so many games without such as a blink of emotion across his face is infuriating. Christ even Wenger takes it out on water bottles occasionally. Looking not only like you don't give a shit, but that you simply don't understand why we're loosing is infuriating.

This was a frequent occurrence under Mancini, but as many of us were repeatedly reminded last season, possession doesn't win prizes, points do. I expected a period of transition from slow methodical defensive side to a quicker more aggressive pressing side. However the main thing about any top team in transition, is they must always continue to be a top team (As AVB found out at Chelsea). You have to stay in and around the top 3/4, perhaps not convert everything to wins, but at the very least don't convert draws (or in our case wins) into losses. Maybe we're doing too much too fast, regardless, it falls on the manager to pace the change. He's, IMO, got that pace drastically wrong. As evidenced by our repeated defensive failings. Does anyone think Sunderland, or Villa, or Cardiffs back lines are better than ours? If loosing Vinny is such a problem, sit the team deeper, throw on another midfielder, just do *something* to ensure we stop conceding goals. Stop charging off chanting 'We'll score more than you', whilst we get sucker punched by long ball over the top after long ball over the top.

Against WBA, I'd expect us to win, because we are, or at least should be the better team. We beat them last season with ten men for a huge portion of the match, even came from behind. However I expected us to beat everyone we've lost to this season with the exception of Chelsea. Will we? Well, christ only knows. Realistically we need 6 points from WBA and Southampton, 4 wouldn't be good enough. Getting 3 points at Southampton will be very difficult. Do it and it may just have the team thinking we can get 3 points at our other tough away grounds.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

I'm feeling we need to go more with the monopoly theme, today, to take our minds off things. If Silva is Mayfair, and Garcia is Old Kent Road, where does everyone else fit?

But seriously, I always said we wouldn't win the league this year, but fully expected top 3. MP inherited a failing team, one which was struggling to reproduce its best form. We've seen improvements, but it's patchy at best, and what the new manager has to do is ascertain why (they are struggling), who (isn't good enough) and what (needs to be done about it). He's given everyone an opportunity to stake their claim, so should know most of what needs to be done. Answers to follow in January.

No inherited a failing team ? Gimme a break MP inherited what most pundits and fans alike accepted is the best squad in England and is failing to get the best out of it.

You quite conveniently forget, that yesterday, which has restarted this argument, that not the squad but the playing 11 was four
short of what is considered the best side. VK,Nastasic,Fern and Merlin. We lost because we couldn't score, not as if we were mullered.
Also that goal wouldn't have been given at the other end. I'm sure of that.

It would be churlish to suggest ANY team wouldn't miss those players, but any team containing yaya, aguero, nasri and negredo not to mention at least six other seasoned internationals should be putting teams like Sunderland to bed, as for any city fan suggesting they didn't expect a title challenge this season, given we have what is universally recognised as the best squad in England, well I despair.

 

[robbieh]

The point I am making here is that if the only thing I have to worry about is a cult of personality from our manager, I would suggest things aren't anything like as apocalyptic as suggested in some posts.

But it isn't the only thing is it. The next seven games will tell us a lot.

Spurs, Swansea, Arsenal and Liverpool at home.
WBA, Southampton and Fulham away.

Some tough looking fixtures. At the moment it is difficult to say what is going to happen. 14 points and we will probably treading water. 18 we will be back in it. Anything less and the Barca boys will be getting ready to pull the plug. Not being top four is not an option.

 

[supercity88]

It would be ironic in a way, (but also incredibly unlikely), if Pellegrini went above and beyond what was expected of him and won the Champions League, yet didn't make the top 4, 2 years after the rulings about the winners automatically qualifying changed. Meaning we still don't make the Champions League, and risk losing key players.

Unlikely though.

If you win the Champions League you automatically qualify for the next season to defend your title. As with Chelsea finishing 5th yet qualifying at the expense of Tottenham.

 

[waspish]

Managers fault 100% he picks and instructs the team if he sees a player out there under performing he has the authority to change the team from the 1st minute to the last!

He is not doing his fucking job!

 

[dancity19]

It would be ironic in a way, (but also incredibly unlikely), if Pellegrini went above and beyond what was expected of him and won the Champions League, yet didn't make the top 4, 2 years after the rulings about the winners automatically qualifying changed. Meaning we still don't make the Champions League, and risk losing key players.

Unlikely though.

If you win the Champions League you automatically qualify for the next season to defend your title. As with Chelsea finishing 5th yet qualifying at the expense of Tottenham.

I was under the impression that rule had changed, after the Chelsea and tottenham situation.

Perhaps not.

 

[Sir peace frog]

I personally think he changed to much yesterday,with nasty being injured I have no problem putting lescott in,but I wouldn't of changed the fullbacks,Garcia and toure in the middle is a big no for me,both too slow defensively,

But steping back from the emotion of defeat we fucking battered Sunderland as we did villa and Cardiff,we der served at least a point v Chelsea,it's little things that are letting us down,once we iron these out we will have more than enough for most teams.

 

[Marvin]

Perhaps a bit of false optimism? It's like people on here are in shock at the moment, unable to contemplate just how poor our start to this campaign has been. Either that or they're still so dead set in this outer/inner rubbish that they'll support Pellegrini to the hilt no matter what. Chelsea loosing to Newcastle should have been the lifeline this team needed to shake itself out of whatever rut it's in away from home and take the league by the scruff of the neck. We have now lost FOUR matches. Our team should be looking at barely any more than 5 losses over an entire season - 38 games. We're 80% of the way there already and we've not even hit Christmas!! Even in the seasons the rags started poorly, but keeping an unerring consistency to hammer out results, I'll bet you can't find a season they won where they started this poorly. Even if you buy into the theory this will be the lowest winning points total of any league, we can afford maybe as many as 8 losses, look who we've lost against and where we still have to go. Anfield, Goodison, WHL, Emirates, Swamp, St Mary's, Liberty.. Not really be turning up there and smashing it in the past have we?

This really is one of the few times a full on meltdown on here is fully justified. We were favourites in the eyes of everyone, rightly so, and Pellegrini is pissing it all up the wall whilst bumbling around repeating 'I can't believe it, I don't understand how we lost'. I didn't put much stock in the whole learning the Premier League lark before he came, as if it was some top secret brand of football no-one else understood, but when you see us going up against teams that aren't interested in just being passed around, are willing to dig in and battle, defend and attack set pieces equally well, and Pellegrini is harping on about only one team looking to play football, well, starting to wonder if it's true after all. Maybe some managers just aren't cut out for it.

David Moyes is now above us in the league even after loosing to us. Just let that sink in for a second.

What do you want Pellegrini to say after a defeat? I've seen criticism on here because of his demeanour on the bench when he's watching the game. This is pretty low stuff, and not what I would expect from City fans

You listen to Wenger, Moyes or any top manager after a defeat. Do they make much sense? Mourinho has plenty of excuses and rants but they are even worse than silence.

The only place to sort it out is on the pitch and and training ground, and the only place for words and explanation is the dressing room when the manager has had time to reflect and digest events. Fans want rational explanations for defeat, but maybe these things are just not possible in the immediate aftermath of a defeat.

I want to give Pellegrini a chance but I can not understand how we can have dominated every game (with exception of Stoke) in terms of possession and shots and come away with so few points. The results reflect some bad luck, or defending and poor attacking play. They are also in pat anomalous.

If we were to pay WBA tomorrow away (our next away game), would you expect to win, lose or draw?

Low perhaps, but unsurprising. Fans are passionate people. To see a manager lose so many games without such as a blink of emotion across his face is infuriating. Christ even Wenger takes it out on water bottles occasionally. Looking not only like you don't give a shit, but that you simply don't understand why we're loosing is infuriating.

This was a frequent occurrence under Mancini, but as many of us were repeatedly reminded last season, possession doesn't win prizes, points do. I expected a period of transition from slow methodical defensive side to a quicker more aggressive pressing side. However the main thing about any top team in transition, is they must always continue to be a top team (As AVB found out at Chelsea). You have to stay in and around the top 3/4, perhaps not convert everything to wins, but at the very least don't convert draws (or in our case wins) into losses. Maybe we're doing too much too fast, regardless, it falls on the manager to pace the change. He's, IMO, got that pace drastically wrong. As evidenced by our repeated defensive failings. Does anyone think Sunderland, or Villa, or Cardiffs back lines are better than ours? If loosing Vinny is such a problem, sit the team deeper, throw on another midfielder, just do *something* to ensure we stop conceding goals. Stop charging off chanting 'We'll score more than you', whilst we get sucker punched by long ball over the top after long ball over the top.

Against WBA, I'd expect us to win, because we are, or at least should be the better team. We beat them last season with ten men for a huge portion of the match, even came from behind. However I expected us to beat everyone we've lost to this season with the exception of Chelsea. Will we? Well, christ only knows. Realistically we need 6 points from WBA and Southampton, 4 wouldn't be good enough. Getting 3 points at Southampton will be very difficult. Do it and it may just have the team thinking we can get 3 points at our other tough away grounds.

10 points from the next 12 would be good enough and would put us back in the top 4 and very likely in touch with Arsenal.

August, Sep and October has gone. Commit it to memory. learn from it. Use it to avoid complacency, and lets get to the New Year within 3 points of the top. If we do that, then every City fan will be rightly confident of winning back the title from Man Utd

It's annoying to have thrown points away, but lets use the experience positively. I refuse to accept that City can't make 3 points on Arsenal and Man Utd between now and New Year, and another 3 points on them between then and May. It's a very limited and achievable target