Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[dennishasdoneit]

We've had stunning victories vs the shite, Newcastle and Norwich plus made progress in Europe (lesson from Bayern aside) so you can see Pellegrini definitely has something about him. I agree he should be getting more from the squad - particularly away from home in the league. As has been said to death already, he needs to pick a settled back four and ease up on the rotation. Yes there are times key players need a rest, but the continual wholesale chopping and changing needs a review - it's that kind of large scale tinkering that did not help Ranieri's or Benitez's teams at times; the more settled they were seemed to be when they were at their most successful.

When I see Pellegrini, I cannot find anything from him that I can nail my colours to in the same way I could Mancini. I don't see him in training so don't know if he is like that with the players and more importantly, I'm not a player so don't even know if that is important to a player. The point I am making here is that if the only thing I have to worry about is a cult of personality from our manager, I would suggest things aren't anything like as apocalyptic as suggested in some posts.

Stunning victories against Newcastle and Norwich are not a true indication of where we are this stage of the season. Away results are unfortunately.

And getting out of a group which includes Plznen and Moscow is not significant progress and most City fans I speak to believe we would have qualified with Mancini as manager from that group.

I am not interested so much in Europe and don't believe that many of our fans are either. It's a bonus. The League is the bread and butter. There's no good being in Europe and having a relatively good season in it if you are not going to be in Europe the next. yes, most Premiership teams would have beaten CSKA and Plzen.

But you can not dismiss the home form and concentrate on the away form. Points are points whether won home or away.

I don't se any reason why Pellegrini's City can't go to WBA and Soton our next 2 away games, and return with at least 4 points. I wish those games were next week, because we're going to have insinuations and gloating from all sides including our own for ages now

i can see a BIG reason why city will not do as well as you said in the next two away games..because our clueless manager has already stated that, in his opinion, he does NOT need to change anything in how we play away from home.

that is very worrying.

almost as worrying as joe harts fall from grace.
why clichy ,s football has gone backwards.
why micah has for gotten the basics of top class full back play.
why nastastic has started to make mistakes.
why vinny picks up repeated injuries( as manicini ponted out)
why nasri has now decided that with a change of manager he can now improve his performances-forgetting who it was who lead him to a title winners medal.how does it feel to be eighth in the table sami? while your previous club sit on top?

player power has got a lot to answer for. hope everyone on here who listed mancini,s shortcomings is happy with our top ten placing..wait till stoke and hughesy over take us..or newcastle ....thats when the penny really will have dropped for our deluded players and batman and robin from barca.

 

[gio's side step]

We've had stunning victories vs the shite, Newcastle and Norwich plus made progress in Europe (lesson from Bayern aside) so you can see Pellegrini definitely has something about him. I agree he should be getting more from the squad - particularly away from home in the league. As has been said to death already, he needs to pick a settled back four and ease up on the rotation. Yes there are times key players need a rest, but the continual wholesale chopping and changing needs a review - it's that kind of large scale tinkering that did not help Ranieri's or Benitez's teams at times; the more settled they were seemed to be when they were at their most successful.

When I see Pellegrini, I cannot find anything from him that I can nail my colours to in the same way I could Mancini. I don't see him in training so don't know if he is like that with the players and more importantly, I'm not a player so don't even know if that is important to a player. The point I am making here is that if the only thing I have to worry about is a cult of personality from our manager, I would suggest things aren't anything like as apocalyptic as suggested in some posts.

Stunning victories against Newcastle and Norwich are not a true indication of where we are this stage of the season. Away results are unfortunately.

And getting out of a group which includes Plznen and Moscow is not significant progress and most City fans I speak to believe we would have qualified with Mancini as manager from that group.

I am not interested so much in Europe and don't believe that many of our fans are either. It's a bonus. The League is the bread and butter. There's no good being in Europe and having a relatively good season in it if you are not going to be in Europe the next. yes, most Premiership teams would have beaten CSKA and Plzen.

But you can not dismiss the home form and concentrate on the away form. Points are points whether won home or away.

I don't se any reason why Pellegrini's City can't go to WBA and Soton our next 2 away games, and return with at least 4 points. I wish those games were next week, because we're going to have insinuations and gloating from all sides including our own for ages now

The home form I focus on is the Utd and Everton results. Both outstanding. Was a perfect time to play Utd with RVP out and Utd struggling early on post-Fergie but nonetheless we are exceptional. Everton I would expect to beat at home but again still a very good result (although Barry wasn't playing and he has improved them significantly in midfield0.

Hull, Norwich and Newcastle I would expect to be beating comfortably at home with our squad.

We are concentrating on the away form because we are getting beat. We have been unfortunate in some games but we are lacking an ability to just win some games no matter how or what. Yesterday was one of them. It was just a game we needed to win. And whilst away form wasnt great under Mancini it was certainly better at this stage of the season. And we found ways to get results when we needed to.

 

[lancs blue]

If some are now suggesting messrs Moyes, Rodgers, AVB, Pochetino are better than Pellegrini, then where to begin? -- Hard to tell who's better as none of them have exactly pulled up trees in the trophy department but at present there's no great argument either for saying Pellegrini is better.

This title race is WIDE open, adding to the hysteria and frustrations, as we are using previous campaigns as the barometer.

Come the end of December, we will be in that top three and right in the mix. -- 3 tough home games against Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool plus 2 tough away trips in 4 days to WBA and Southampton, both of whom are far better than teams that have taken points off us already away from home. I hope you're right but I'm really not sure where your optimism comes from.

Thankfully, the transfer window will be open and we'll be busier than most, getting rid of the deadwood frauds who have stolen a living for too long. -- Right so we're going to sacrifice our hard won CL knockout place in order to perform major surgery on the squad midway through the season. You haven't thought this through have you? Get rid of Richards (club-trained) and that's one less place in an already depleted CL squad, which can only have 3 new faces in it for the next stage and we can't add new signings to the CL squad who've already played in the CL group stages so that rules out most of the top class players. Our execs seem fixated on CL success so why would they follow your suggested course of action in offloading 4 or 5 players in January?

Pellegrini will get what he wants after qualifying for next stage of Champs League.

Do think he and we would have been better served keeping Barry for his final year.

Dzeko, Richards, Lescott, Milner, Hart, Kolarov, Garcia, all on borrowed time.

We will be champions.

Take the next 4 games...

Spurs (H)
Swansea(H)
WBA (A)
Soton (A)

Are you seriously telling me you expect to lose at WBA and Soton just because we lost at Cardiff and Sunderland?

I would expect City to take 10 points from that.

A statistical projection of where we will be at the end of the year based on our current away form is pointless because it ignores the potential of the squad. It is perfectly possible and very likely that City will immediately turn around the unacceptable poor away form.



Nevertheless I'd still back City to beat Spurs and Swansea at home, and take 4 points from WBA and Saints away

Where did I say I expect us to lose?? I said WBA and Southampton would be tough games, do you seriously dispute that? I also said that WBA and Southampton are considerably better teams than Cardiff, Stoke and Sunderland - how can you possibly dispute that? Do you think Steve Clarke and Pochettino won't have analysed why we lost to the "lower" teams and have a game plan ready?

The odd blip is inevitable but in 6 away league games we've produced one convincing win at West Ham, that has to be regarded as something more fundamental than a blip. We need a dramatic transformation in our away form or we will struggle at those places.

 

[markbmcfc]

Re: Clueless manager

Can I ask a question, why the fuck are people complaining about Pellegrini for losing games like this when we've had the same underlying problem for nearly 5 years now.

We just can't break teams down that park the bus. We couldn't 4 years ago, we can't now. The Sunderland away fixture has been a fucking carbon copy three years running.

Our style of play and wastefulness is what is hurting us. The players have to take responsibility. Too much blame is thrown at the management. Both Mancini and Pellegrini have fielded teams more than capable of beating Sunderland away yet the players just haven't performed. It's their fault, nobody elses. A manager can prepare, pick a team, shape, tactics (we dominated them and never looked under that much pressure) but it's the players that can't beat the first man at corners, that waste clear chances, that choose the wrong pass or overhit it.

Fans are quick to jump on the manager and it's ridiculous, he can only do so much. Now he's being criticised for not playing Zabba. A fortnight ago people we're looking forward to Richards being back. He plays shit and suddenly its Pellegrini's fault for not playing Zabba. If Richards had scored the winner would he have been lamented for playing him over Zabba then? Of course he wouldn't.

I'm not defending Pellegrini, he didn't choose the team I would have but it doesn't matter a toss, he chose a team capable of beating Sunderland. The players didn't perform. Same at Cardiff & Villa.

The players are grown men that shouldn't need someone on the bench dictating their every move and making decisions for them, they are given a general plan and then have to perform. They haven't performed and that is it.

 

[Marvin]

People need to go back to how we felt BEFORE yesterday's game. Optimistic, content, whatever - we were coming off some good results and seeing some great football. Another win and we're sitting pretty to challenge for the top spot - everyone could feel it.

Then we go and lose. All of a sudden the world has caved in, all our players are crap, Mancini wouldn't have taken us backwards and now some are calling for the manager's head!

The point is, this change in opinion is down to ONE game. This is a crazy start to the season. No team is yet running away with it, and there's no reason to believe it can't be us that string a run together. A poor result it certainly was, however, and it is certainly apparent that MP has not yet worked out how the Premier League works - surely lower positioned teams are supposed to roll over for us, like they do in La Liga. I would hope he now sees that the best team doesn't always win, that you need to know how to grind out results when needed. If he can't see the need for a Bellamy or Tevez type character to dictate play, and not a like-for-like Silva playmaker, then we will continue to struggle.

However you look at it though, we started the day 6pts behind the leaders, and ended the day the same. That is a get-out-of-jail card, better not f*ck it up from here.

Perhaps a bit of false optimism? It's like people on here are in shock at the moment, unable to contemplate just how poor our start to this campaign has been. Either that or they're still so dead set in this outer/inner rubbish that they'll support Pellegrini to the hilt no matter what. Chelsea loosing to Newcastle should have been the lifeline this team needed to shake itself out of whatever rut it's in away from home and take the league by the scruff of the neck. We have now lost FOUR matches. Our team should be looking at barely any more than 5 losses over an entire season - 38 games. We're 80% of the way there already and we've not even hit Christmas!! Even in the seasons the rags started poorly, but keeping an unerring consistency to hammer out results, I'll bet you can't find a season they won where they started this poorly. Even if you buy into the theory this will be the lowest winning points total of any league, we can afford maybe as many as 8 losses, look who we've lost against and where we still have to go. Anfield, Goodison, WHL, Emirates, Swamp, St Mary's, Liberty.. Not really be turning up there and smashing it in the past have we?

This really is one of the few times a full on meltdown on here is fully justified. We were favourites in the eyes of everyone, rightly so, and Pellegrini is pissing it all up the wall whilst bumbling around repeating 'I can't believe it, I don't understand how we lost'. I didn't put much stock in the whole learning the Premier League lark before he came, as if it was some top secret brand of football no-one else understood, but when you see us going up against teams that aren't interested in just being passed around, are willing to dig in and battle, defend and attack set pieces equally well, and Pellegrini is harping on about only one team looking to play football, well, starting to wonder if it's true after all. Maybe some managers just aren't cut out for it.

David Moyes is now above us in the league even after loosing to us. Just let that sink in for a second.

What do you want Pellegrini to say after a defeat? I've seen criticism on here because of his demeanour on the bench when he's watching the game. This is pretty low stuff, and not what I would expect from City fans

You listen to Wenger, Moyes or any top manager after a defeat. Do they make much sense? Mourinho has plenty of excuses and rants but they are even worse than silence.

The only place to sort it out is on the pitch and and training ground, and the only place for words and explanation is the dressing room when the manager has had time to reflect and digest events. Fans want rational explanations for defeat, but maybe these things are just not possible in the immediate aftermath of a defeat.

I want to give Pellegrini a chance but I can not understand how we can have dominated every game (with exception of Stoke) in terms of possession and shots and come away with so few points. The results reflect some bad luck, or defending and poor attacking play. They are also in pat anomalous.

If we were to pay WBA tomorrow away (our next away game), would you expect to win, lose or draw?

 

[dancity19]

It would be ironic in a way, (but also incredibly unlikely), if Pellegrini went above and beyond what was expected of him and won the Champions League, yet didn't make the top 4, 2 years after the rulings about the winners automatically qualifying changed. Meaning we still don't make the Champions League, and risk losing key players.

Unlikely though.

 

[kunaguero10]

Re: Clueless manager

Give the man a break.

It's the old saying - "people have got short memories" - as you all know it wasn't that long ago we were struggling to keep out of the bottom 3.

We have progressed this year with the new manager. We are in the knock out stages of the Champions League. We can not win all of the matches all of the time. Yes we are going to get beat by some of the lessor teams & yes guess what, we will probably beat some of the best teams in Europe at some stage.

Everyone who has posted negative comments about the manager should wait until his time is up at the club & then pass judgement.

At some point in time the club will win the Champions League. Move on from Sunderland & look forward. That point in time might be closer than you think!

Get behind the team (whoever puts the blue shirt on), get behind the manager & for crying out loud give the new manager a song!

have we really??? 8th in the table and an inability to beat a series of rubbish teams away suggests otherwise

 

[rastus]

Re: Clueless manager

Just back and still angry. Got to say that is the most inept display of management I have seen in a long time , this guy is fucking clueless. Need to score swap a right back ,jimmy out wide right with navas on bench and Garcia in the team. To completely change the back four for a game away from home with great results going into it is beyond belief. 3 hours on a coach and still not calmed down he is fucking useless

nasty was injured. How do you know Clichy is not carrying a back injury?

We didn't lose the game because of a shuffled back line. We lost because the ref made big mistake on their goal, and City's forwards weren't able to make a telling final pass / shot.

He wouldnt be carrying anything if that was the case

 

[onceabluealways]

Re: Clueless manager

Can I ask a question, why the fuck are people complaining about Pellegrini for losing games like this when we've had the same underlying problem for nearly 5 years now.

We just can't break teams down that park the bus. We couldn't 4 years ago, we can't now. The Sunderland away fixture has been a fucking carbon copy three years running.

Our style of play and wastefulness is what is hurting us. The players have to take responsibility. Too much blame is thrown at the management. Both Mancini and Pellegrini have fielded teams more than capable of beating Sunderland away yet the players just haven't performed. It's their fault, nobody elses. A manager can prepare, pick a team, shape, tactics (we dominated them and never looked under that much pressure) but it's the players that can't beat the first man at corners, that waste clear chances, that choose the wrong pass or overhit it.

Fans are quick to jump on the manager and it's ridiculous, he can only do so much. Now he's being criticised for not playing Zabba. A fortnight ago people we're looking forward to Richards being back. He plays shit and suddenly its Pellegrini's fault for not playing Zabba. If Richards had scored the winner would he have been lamented for playing him over Zabba then? Of course he wouldn't.

I'm not defending Pellegrini, he didn't choose the team I would have but it doesn't matter a toss, he chose a team capable of beating Sunderland. The players didn't perform. Same at Cardiff & Villa.

The players are grown men that shouldn't need someone on the bench dictating their every move and making decisions for them, they are given a general plan and then have to perform. They haven't performed and that is it.

If the manager just has to put players on the pitch capable of beating teams then why do top clubs pay a fortune for top class managers.

Our team for 3 years has been reliant on silva playing well. He shoulkd be able to realise this. He should be able to see that Garcia is not up to the job. Otherwise get a no mark manager save some money and just play our 11 most expensive players in their position and we SHOULD win or maybe NOT

 

[bluemanc1994]

Re: Clueless manager

There was no reason yesterday, other than Nasty, Ferna and Silva's injuries, to change the lineup. We have no game for 2 weeks now. Zaba should have started yesterday and there is no way Garcia should be anywhere near the first team.

That team however was good enough to beat Sunderland, as has the teams he picked for Cardiff and Villa. The sooner we get a fully fit squad with a settled starting 11 (with Hart), the better. We have already lost 4 games but are still only 2 wins off top so i'll take that at this stage. We could/should have been completely out of the title race by now but were far from it. All it takes is a good run of form then we will be right up there. I still think we'll be lifting the trophy in May, as well as one of the cup competitions.

My only worry though is that teams like Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea won't lose at the places we've lost this year but they will still drop points, there is no need to slate the manager week in, week out like some on here do. We're through to the last 16 of the CL and still in the title race. Some people need to realise that!