Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[Bluemoonbaldboy]

Re: Clueless manager

Think some need to step away from computers following a loss. Yesterday much like Villa we were the better side yet lost. We aren't that far off tonking someone away like we have a fair few times at home. Honestly I genuinely think our worst performance this season was Hull at home. It's been a strange old start not just for us yet we started yesterday 6 points off the top and we've finished 6 points off the top.

 

[BlueRockape]

Now let me preface this by saying that I rate Rafa very highly, and have done since long before the football hipsters cottoned on to how good a coach he was. The problem with him getting the City job, and it's a wider and more relevant discussion than most people realise, is what did the owners want?

Broadly speaking when you look across the top coaches in Europe you have two kinds ... you have those who don't believe in playing percentages and play every game from minute one to minute 90 in pretty much the same attacking way (Pep, Klopp, Pellegrini), and you have those who are more pragmatic for want of a better word (Benitez, Mancini, Mourinho).

Strikes me that the owners made a conscious decision to employ Txiki and Ferran which means that they wanted a certain attacking philosophy. This obviously has meant a change in emphasis from when Mancini was in charge and yes it's meant we are more open. But what can you do when it's the choice the owners made? If they wanted that kind of coach, Pellegrini was the best available on the market this summer. Klopp has all but said City tried to get him. Pep was already in Munich. When you look at who the rags ended up with, who PSG ended up with, I'm very happy we got Pellegrini. But then I rate the guy and believe he'll be a success.

The problem is that the one that the rags ended up with is above us in the league (with an arguably poorer team) which has got to be a problem for Pellegrini. Can this be turned around ? I hope so and I believe so. There's no point in pretending though that overall 8th place is a poor start. Our get out of jail card lies in the fact that no one else is running away with the league - that's good luck on our part.

I don't think you can call it good luck, more a total reality of the entire league this season.

Everton have lost just once this season, to ourselves. We have lost four and sit one point behind them. There has to be a correlation between some of our results and the fact United and Chelsea have also experienced poor results against teams previously considered cannon-fodder?

One team won the league by 12 points last year, the other, another European trophy, having recruited top players the previous summer, and who also spent an additional £60m this time around, with Mourinho at the helm.

All three teams changed manager, so allowances have obviously been made.

Moyes and Mourinho have vast experience of the English league, yet plenty don't wish to afford Pellegrini any type of slack whatsoever after 11 games, sitting a couple of points behind both.

With a bigger and supposed better squad

 

[levets]

Perhaps their initial enthusiasm has just proved misplaced, Pellegrini just smiles his way through post match defeat interviews telling us all how mystifying it is that his superior side failed to win. He knows he's safe in his job no matter what.

Well his job's not safe. I'm hoping they're keeping an eye on Diego Simeone. Or just get HArry Redknapp. At least we'd win the prem every season.

I think his job is safe for a good while yet, the Catalans would be putting their own heads on the block if they sacked their own choice of manager after removing a man who finished 3rd, 1st and 2nd in his 3 full seasons.

TB is a Basque mate.. but get your point

 

[mcfcphil]

Now let me preface this by saying that I rate Rafa very highly, and have done since long before the football hipsters cottoned on to how good a coach he was. The problem with him getting the City job, and it's a wider and more relevant discussion than most people realise, is what did the owners want?

Broadly speaking when you look across the top coaches in Europe you have two kinds ... you have those who don't believe in playing percentages and play every game from minute one to minute 90 in pretty much the same attacking way (Pep, Klopp, Pellegrini), and you have those who are more pragmatic for want of a better word (Benitez, Mancini, Mourinho).

Strikes me that the owners made a conscious decision to employ Txiki and Ferran which means that they wanted a certain attacking philosophy. This obviously has meant a change in emphasis from when Mancini was in charge and yes it's meant we are more open. But what can you do when it's the choice the owners made? If they wanted that kind of coach, Pellegrini was the best available on the market this summer. Klopp has all but said City tried to get him. Pep was already in Munich. When you look at who the rags ended up with, who PSG ended up with, I'm very happy we got Pellegrini. But then I rate the guy and believe he'll be a success.

The problem is that the one that the rags ended up with is above us in the league (with an arguably poorer team) which has got to be a problem for Pellegrini. Can this be turned around ? I hope so and I believe so. There's no point in pretending though that overall 8th place is a poor start. Our get out of jail card lies in the fact that no one else is running away with the league - that's good luck on our part.

I don't think you can call it good luck, more a total reality of the entire league this season.

Everton have lost just once this season, to ourselves. We have lost four and sit one point behind them. There has to be a correlation between some of our results and the fact United and Chelsea have also experienced poor results against teams previously considered cannon-fodder?

One team won the league by 12 points last year, the other, another European trophy, having recruited top players the previous summer, and who also spent an additional £60m this time around, with Mourinho at the helm.

All three teams changed manager, so allowances have obviously been made.

Moyes and Mourinho have vast experience of the English league, yet plenty don't wish to afford Pellegrini any type of slack whatsoever after 11 games, sitting a couple of points behind both.

I don’t really buy into comparing pellegrini with moyes or mourinho or whoever – it’s futile.
What i’m looking at is city’s performances because that’s all that pellegrini can control – and in my opinion he has dropped some real clangers so far. Couple of games he’s been tactically great but in quite a few games his tactics and team selection have really worried me.

I hope he gets it right and he’s got to be given more than 11 games but this is modern football and you don’t get the luxury of time. He’s made a poor start there can be no denying it – he’s got to get it right very, very quickly now or the league season will be over before Christmas.

It’s hard for a manager to come into a new league and adapt straight away – but at the end of the day that’s the job he’s taken on and he has to be judged accordingly. So far you can’t come to any other conclusion than it’s been a very poor start.

 

[lancs blue]

Well his job's not safe. I'm hoping they're keeping an eye on Diego Simeone. Or just get HArry Redknapp. At least we'd win the prem every season.

I think his job is safe for a good while yet, the Catalans would be putting their own heads on the block if they sacked their own choice of manager after removing a man who finished 3rd, 1st and 2nd in his 3 full seasons.

TB is a Basque mate.. but get your point

My mistake, thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Pellegrini really is getting a seriously raw deal from some on here.

I've seen 'clueless', 'clown', 'yes man', that's more character assassination than managerial critique?

A guy who flew home to Chile to attend the funeral of his mother and flew back straight away for a meaningless friendly in the Far East.

I don't think anyone should be any doubt over his commitment to get it right. Question the ability to get it right, sure, but a lot of the comments still seem rooted in resentment rather than rationale?

We are also being let down by long-term offenders that even Mancini could not bring into line.

Every bit of this is spot fuckin on.

The manager has not been to 'blame' for any of the 4 defeats.

Errors, lack of concentration and in yesterday's case a completely vile lack of application and desire from the players.

This works the other way round as well.

After great performances and great results people come on here and give a slight nod to the manager 'getting it right'.

What 99% of you are missing on your analysis is that whether we hammer Norwich 7- 0 or utd 4-1 or lose to Sunderland or Cardiff, it's the players who deliver those performances and results not the manager. They are out there in the pitch doing what they do.

7-0 Norwich
4-1 utd
5-2 cska
2-1 cska
3-0 plzen
4-0 Newcastle
3-1 Everton
2-0 hull
3-1 west ham

8 wins, 33 goals scored, 6 conceded.

0-1 Sunderland
2-3 villa
2-3 Cardiff
1-2 Chelsea
1-3 Bayern

5 losses, 6 goals scored, 12 conceded.

That clearly points to a Jekyll and Hyde team mindset and lazy or arrogant or both approach to some games .

If some of you think all this is down to one man you are delusional beyond words.

It's the players. The top set of results proves that.. The bottom set of results confirms it beyond dispute.

Player errors, key injuries, lack of application and desire at times.

Not the manager.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Pellegrini really is getting a seriously raw deal from some on here.

I've seen 'clueless', 'clown', 'yes man', that's more character assassination than managerial critique?

A guy who flew home to Chile to attend the funeral of his mother and flew back straight away for a meaningless friendly in the Far East.

I don't think anyone should be any doubt over his commitment to get it right. Question the ability to get it right, sure, but a lot of the comments still seem rooted in resentment rather than rationale?

We are also being let down by long-term offenders that even Mancini could not bring into line.

Tolm - a lot of is is frustration at what happened to Mancini and there are some who just can't get over it and will deliver as much senseless abuse in MP's direction - some can't move on, but comparisons are going to be made as he was reasonably successful.

The issue here is - are the board going to back MP into making the changes required to get the results. If this form continues, sooner or later players will start to have doubts. My biggest concern is the reliant on certain players. Mancini had go to men in the team and it is looking that way for MP -

MP needs time, but there are some bad apples that need to be shifted, unfortunately their attitude has not improved even with a change of management - we have Southampton and WBA away coming up and both teams are flying - a rocket needs to be delivered up the arses of the players. Be it from MP and even sanction Khaldoon to come down hard.

Not so much bad apples, mate, simply bad players in regards being good enough for our present squad.

Highly-paid individuals who struck the lottery thanks to the position we found ourselves in when this incredible journey started. We had to buy a certain tier of player to progress.

Those players get knocked down the pecking order as we then buy players of a higher standing. Those limitations are cruelly exposed when we are forced to utilise the squad, as the comparisons with the hallmarks players then become even more pronounced, as do the disparity in results.

We simply even-up the scale when we go up against teams with players of a similar ilk, who still want to get the better of big bad Manchester City.

A bit like Fergie Time, we have somehow allowed a psyche to develop throughout the league in last 18 months or so. One which emboldens the opposition to run that extra yard because they know they have a template to achieve a result.

 

[BlueRockape]

The problem is that the one that the rags ended up with is above us in the league (with an arguably poorer team) which has got to be a problem for Pellegrini. Can this be turned around ? I hope so and I believe so. There's no point in pretending though that overall 8th place is a poor start. Our get out of jail card lies in the fact that no one else is running away with the league - that's good luck on our part.

I don't think you can call it good luck, more a total reality of the entire league this season.

Everton have lost just once this season, to ourselves. We have lost four and sit one point behind them. There has to be a correlation between some of our results and the fact United and Chelsea have also experienced poor results against teams previously considered cannon-fodder?

One team won the league by 12 points last year, the other, another European trophy, having recruited top players the previous summer, and who also spent an additional £60m this time around, with Mourinho at the helm.

All three teams changed manager, so allowances have obviously been made.

Moyes and Mourinho have vast experience of the English league, yet plenty don't wish to afford Pellegrini any type of slack whatsoever after 11 games, sitting a couple of points behind both.

I don’t really buy into comparing pellegrini with moyes or mourinho or whoever – it’s futile.
What i’m looking at is city’s performances because that’s all that pellegrini can control – and in my opinion he has dropped some real clangers so far. Couple of games he’s been tactically great but in quite a few games his tactics and team selection have really worried me.

I hope he gets it right and he’s got to be given more than 11 games but this is modern football and you don’t get the luxury of time. He’s made a poor start there can be no denying it – he’s got to get it right very, very quickly now or the league season will be over before Christmas.

It’s hard for a manager to come into a new league and adapt straight away – but at the end of the day that’s the job he’s taken on and he has to be judged accordingly. So far you can’t come to any other conclusion than it’s been a very poor start.

Great post

 

[BL2blue]

Now let me preface this by saying that I rate Rafa very highly, and have done since long before the football hipsters cottoned on to how good a coach he was. The problem with him getting the City job, and it's a wider and more relevant discussion than most people realise, is what did the owners want?

Broadly speaking when you look across the top coaches in Europe you have two kinds ... you have those who don't believe in playing percentages and play every game from minute one to minute 90 in pretty much the same attacking way (Pep, Klopp, Pellegrini), and you have those who are more pragmatic for want of a better word (Benitez, Mancini, Mourinho).

Strikes me that the owners made a conscious decision to employ Txiki and Ferran which means that they wanted a certain attacking philosophy. This obviously has meant a change in emphasis from when Mancini was in charge and yes it's meant we are more open. But what can you do when it's the choice the owners made? If they wanted that kind of coach, Pellegrini was the best available on the market this summer. Klopp has all but said City tried to get him. Pep was already in Munich. When you look at who the rags ended up with, who PSG ended up with, I'm very happy we got Pellegrini. But then I rate the guy and believe he'll be a success.

The problem is that the one that the rags ended up with is above us in the league (with an arguably poorer team) which has got to be a problem for Pellegrini. Can this be turned around ? I hope so and I believe so. There's no point in pretending though that overall 8th place is a poor start. Our get out of jail card lies in the fact that no one else is running away with the league - that's good luck on our part.

I don't think you can call it good luck, more a total reality of the entire league this season.

Everton have lost just once this season, to ourselves. We have lost four and sit one point behind them. There has to be a correlation between some of our results and the fact United and Chelsea have also experienced poor results against teams previously considered cannon-fodder?

One team won the league by 12 points last year, the other, another European trophy, having recruited top players the previous summer, and who also spent an additional £60m this time around, with Mourinho at the helm.

All three teams changed manager, so allowances have obviously been made.

Moyes and Mourinho have vast experience of the English league, yet plenty don't wish to afford Pellegrini any type of slack whatsoever after 11 games, sitting a couple of points behind both.

You've made some valid points there.

The saving grace to our bad start this season is we're still only 6 points off the top and our rivals are mostly experiencing problems as well. In a way though that makes it even more galling to lose these away games to poor opposition.

I have calmed down alot since yesterday and I hope/pray Pellegrini can turn it around. I dont share the optimism some have that he will but I am desperate to be proved wrong.

 

[OB1]

At the risk of being battered on here, & with none of those available I'd have preferred us to go for Rafa :-O

Now let me preface this by saying that I rate Rafa very highly, and have done since long before the football hipsters cottoned on to how good a coach he was. The problem with him getting the City job, and it's a wider and more relevant discussion than most people realise, is what did the owners want?

Broadly speaking when you look across the top coaches in Europe you have two kinds ... you have those who don't believe in playing percentages and play every game from minute one to minute 90 in pretty much the same attacking way (Pep, Klopp, Pellegrini), and you have those who are more pragmatic for want of a better word (Benitez, Mancini, Mourinho).

Strikes me that the owners made a conscious decision to employ Txiki and Ferran which means that they wanted a certain attacking philosophy. This obviously has meant a change in emphasis from when Mancini was in charge and yes it's meant we are more open. But what can you do when it's the choice the owners made? If they wanted that kind of coach, Pellegrini was the best available on the market this summer. Klopp has all but said City tried to get him. Pep was already in Munich. When you look at who the rags ended up with, who PSG ended up with, I'm very happy we got Pellegrini. But then I rate the guy and believe he'll be a success.

The problem is that the one that the rags ended up with is above us in the league (with an arguably poorer team) which has got to be a problem for Pellegrini. Can this be turned around ? I hope so and I believe so. There's no point in pretending though that overall 8th place is a poor start. Our get out of jail card lies in the fact that no one else is running away with the league - that's good luck on our part.

We've made a disappointing start in terms of the points haul away from home. I consider that points haul does not reflect the overall quality of the performances, the reasons for taking such a view are well documented by numerous people, and you can either agree or disagree. However, the point Billy makes about the choice made by the club, to go with an attacking manager, is hard to disagree with.

Attack should actually be the best form of defence; especially in our case, as we are conceding the fewest shots at goal. The next three teams in that ranking just happen to have the three best defensive records in the league. If we keep the shots against us at the current levels, it would be very strange indeed not to produce a very significant improvement in our defensive record.