Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[cibaman]

Far too many people seeing this as a permanent decision if he does drop hart. In that kind of situation I hope the manager is boxing clever, telling Hart that he will be back in the side as soon as his game is back to top form. The right time to judge whether this is the right call is the end of the season in retrospect, not now. Will pants nail number one as his own? Will Hart come back fired up? Will pants be shit and hart lose all his confidence?

You'd hope that a clever manager knows enough about the psychology of his players to manipulate the situation in the club's interests. My guess is that pants will come back in, Hart will be focused and determined out of the firing line, Pants will make an error or two and Hart will come back good as new.

Lets see what happens before judging this tough call. Joe hart won't be the first or last goalkeeper to be dropped.you can be sure of that.

I can see what you mean but the pivotal point appears to be that Pants needs to make mistakes so that Hart comes back a better keeper. It's all a bit too deep for me. I just thought he'd been dropped until further notice and was extrapolating from that basic fact.

Ultimately, if the manager still believes hart is the better keeper, then when Hart's form and confidence recovers I expect him to come back in the side. It's as simple as that.

The other thing here is that Pellegrini also has to manage Pantillimon. He has been so patient for so long that he will believe he deserves his chance.

Isnt it a chicken and egg situation? I can't really see how Hart's form and confidence can recover until he's back in the team.

There's been no suggestion that he's training badly. All the reports I've read seem to suggest that he's training hard, the errors are largely confined to match situations. As, in my opinion, he's our most talented goalkeeper it wouldn't surprise me if Hart regularly outshines Costel in training. He might train brilliantly in the next two or three months, but he might already be training brilliantly. How does he prove he's re-gained form in training?

Hart's not going to get his confidence back in training. Whenever he's next picked he'll come under immense pressure.

So unless Costel makes even more mistakes it would seem that Hart's route back into the team is to play well against Leicester in 6 weeks time and then in future domestic cup games. It could be a long route back.

 

[moomba]

I agree and I said that in the post after: if Hart is considered the better of the two keepers then as soon as his form improves he comes back in the side, like any other players. What I meant about the mistakes is that I think pants slight quality deficiency on Joe might well become apparent over time and give Joe the impetus to grab the shirt again.

The other point no one is addressing is that Pellegrini also manages pantimillion. How do you not give him a run in the team after all that's happened, and keep him motivated? Managing him has to be part of this equation too.

The problem I see with this is that it's very hard to say a keeper is back in form until they are back in the high pressure environment of a game.

So if Pants plays and does well I don't see how you can drop him. And if he plays well, you drop him for Hart and he cocks up on his return what a clusterfuck that will be.

It's a tough decision to make, and I'm glad its not me that has to make it. But if Pants plays tomorrow, IMO the best for us is that he excels and stays in the team on merit until (at least) the end of the season.

 

[Anonymous]

So really all you want is to feel smug about winning an argument ? I always thought above all else that the team and club were what was important to you but I feel it's more about point scoring. I am a big joe hart fan and feel he is being totally hung out to dry for a problem that lies with every player and coach that has participated in the games this season. I don't think this decision is correct and I don't think there would have been any glaring issues in the game tomorrow and I expect we would have seen a response after Chelsea and a big win anyway.

Im not sure the debate is worth the bother though because it's not about the love of the team and all pulling together is it . Anyway I will turn up, cheer on the team whoever starts

Really Bob ... if I wanted to score points I'd simply post the things you said when Mancini was being urged to drop Joe. I made a light hearted comment and you've come back gnashing your teeth which is totally unnecessary.

 

[supercity88]

I actually think with confidence and psychology he needs time off the field. He is probably over thinking and psychologically it is more an issue than anything else. Some time away will help him get over that before he comes back in. He just needs to keep working hard and get over the yips!

 

[OB1]

Far too many people seeing this as a permanent decision if he does drop hart. In that kind of situation I hope the manager is boxing clever, telling Hart that he will be back in the side as soon as his game is back to top form. The right time to judge whether this is the right call is the end of the season in retrospect, not now. Will pants nail number one as his own? Will Hart come back fired up? Will pants be shit and hart lose all his confidence?

You'd hope that a clever manager knows enough about the psychology of his players to manipulate the situation in the club's interests. My guess is that pants will come back in, Hart will be focused and determined out of the firing line, Pants will make an error or two and Hart will come back good as new.

Lets see what happens before judging this tough call. Joe hart won't be the first or last goalkeeper to be dropped.you can be sure of that.

I remember when Sven was in charge and he told Joe before the Southampton away game that it would be his last for a while and to go out and show that it should only be a temporary absence. Hart duly went out a played a blinder and a few weeks later he was back in the first team. I have no reason to think Hart won't come back fighting if he is dropped.

 

[daztrueblue91]

United would be tempted if we would sell to them . Maybe even Madrid/Barcelona. Point is if he doesn't play here then I think he would go to any decent team if he was number one rather than sit on the bench. Saying Top team may be being pedantic, I honestly don't see him sticking around if he's not being backed billy.

Tbh this is further turmoil we didn't need, pants isn't going to solve our problems. We had a good win the other day and now we open this can Of worms.

Don't agree with most of what you've posted tbh. I don't think Joe would want to leave City unless he was replaced and there was a CL club in for him. The notion he'll go to any decent side who offer him first team football is laughable. The idea that United might be tempted even more laughable.

Going back to your earlier post about this heaping more pressure on Pellegrini ... he's not under pressure. Our performances have been excellent for the most part in recent weeks. We're six points off the top of the table having not played Arsenal or Liverpool yet ... we're going to qualify from our CL group. Considering he's been in the job a few months I suspect Khaldoon et al are delighted with the progress we're making. They're the only people who really matter when it comes to pressure for someone like Pellegrini.

I don't agree with you on the joe hart situation or that our performances have been excellent, that simply isn't true at all. I can't talk anymore about this with you because you will turn it into a debate about the manager and his job and how we hate him. If you agree with him dropping joe then fine , I don't because joe is better than pantilimon. We have a home game tomorrow that would have been a way for joe to ease back into the fold.

I don't think Joe needs easing back into the fold, he needs to rediscover his form and needs to have a top quality game to do so. Playing Joe in this form against a team who in all honestly we should be beating comfortably will not solve anything.

It's been a reoccurring theme that Joe f**** up, then keeps a few clean sheets without having much to do then f****s up again. I thought the game against CSKA would have been a turning point for him after that match winning save but then Chelsea happened. On the flip side Norwich at home could do wonders for Panty's confidence.

The perfect match for Joe to get back to his best is Bayern away. Hopefully we will have qualified by then and it will be a game where we will concede chances. I have no doubt that if dropped Joe will get back to his best and be England's number 1 for the world cup.

What sums Hart up at the minute is that people try to play down his mistakes and look elsewhere. The Lukaku goal was shite defending by Lescott but it was still a goal Hart should have saved. Likewise the one against Chelsea, some people blamed Nasty but Hart still made a clanger. Joe is a top class keeper and should be judged by his own high standards. If he is not going to pull off the saves he is capable of then we need to look elsewhere.

 

[supercity88]

Far too many people seeing this as a permanent decision if he does drop hart. In that kind of situation I hope the manager is boxing clever, telling Hart that he will be back in the side as soon as his game is back to top form. The right time to judge whether this is the right call is the end of the season in retrospect, not now. Will pants nail number one as his own? Will Hart come back fired up? Will pants be shit and hart lose all his confidence?

You'd hope that a clever manager knows enough about the psychology of his players to manipulate the situation in the club's interests. My guess is that pants will come back in, Hart will be focused and determined out of the firing line, Pants will make an error or two and Hart will come back good as new.

Lets see what happens before judging this tough call. Joe hart won't be the first or last goalkeeper to be dropped.you can be sure of that.

I remember when Sven was in charge and he told Joe before the Southampton away game that it would be his last for a while and to go out and show that it should only be a temporary absence. Hart duly went out a played a blinder and a few weeks later he was back in the first team. I have no reason to think Hart won't come back fighting if he is dropped.

Spot on.

 

[without a dream]

I agree and I said that in the post after: if Hart is considered the better of the two keepers then as soon as his form improves he comes back in the side, like any other players. What I meant about the mistakes is that I think pants slight quality deficiency on Joe might well become apparent over time and give Joe the impetus to grab the shirt again.

The other point no one is addressing is that Pellegrini also manages pantimillion. How do you not give him a run in the team after all that's happened, and keep him motivated? Managing him has to be part of this equation too.

The problem I see with this is that it's very hard to say a keeper is back in form until they are back in the high pressure environment of a game.

So if Pants plays and does well I don't see how you can drop him. And if he plays well, you drop him for Hart and he cocks up on his return what a clusterfuck that will be.

It's a tough decision to make, and I'm glad its not me that has to make it. But if Pants plays tomorrow, IMO the best for us is that he excels and stays in the team on merit until (at least) the end of the season.

Pantilimon staying in net all season isn't an option if we want to keep Joe. In a world cup year there's no chance he'll be happy benchwarming all season. I think he might play Hart on Wednesday, playing Pantilimon tomorrow is all about showing him he is droppable.

To go back a few pages to a team that would want/need him, Arsenal.

 

[bobmcfc]

So really all you want is to feel smug about winning an argument ? I always thought above all else that the team and club were what was important to you but I feel it's more about point scoring. I am a big joe hart fan and feel he is being totally hung out to dry for a problem that lies with every player and coach that has participated in the games this season. I don't think this decision is correct and I don't think there would have been any glaring issues in the game tomorrow and I expect we would have seen a response after Chelsea and a big win anyway.

Im not sure the debate is worth the bother though because it's not about the love of the team and all pulling together is it . Anyway I will turn up, cheer on the team whoever starts

Really Bob ... if I wanted to score points I'd simply post the things you said when Mancini was being urged to drop Joe. I made a light hearted comment and you've come back gnashing your teeth which is totally unnecessary.

We could both post endless things each other have said and what difference would it make ? You and I are and have never been at war Mr Shears and I've had to climb down off my horse in the case of fernandinho recently and apologise profusely for doubting him. I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong and I'm not afraid to look silly but in the end, all it would be is very silly and not about the team

 

[bernabias home shirt]

Far too many people seeing this as a permanent decision if he does drop hart. In that kind of situation I hope the manager is boxing clever, telling Hart that he will be back in the side as soon as his game is back to top form. The right time to judge whether this is the right call is the end of the season in retrospect, not now. Will pants nail number one as his own? Will Hart come back fired up? Will pants be shit and hart lose all his confidence?

You'd hope that a clever manager knows enough about the psychology of his players to manipulate the situation in the club's interests. My guess is that pants will come back in, Hart will be focused and determined out of the firing line, Pants will make an error or two and Hart will come back good as new.

Lets see what happens before judging this tough call. Joe hart won't be the first or last goalkeeper to be dropped.you can be sure of that.

I remember when Sven was in charge and he told Joe before the Southampton away game that it would be his last for a while and to go out and show that it should only be a temporary absence. Hart duly went out a played a blinder and a few weeks later he was back in the first team. I have no reason to think Hart won't come back fighting if he is dropped.

Harts in a dif place to where he was back then
England's number one & not long ago regarded as the best keeper in the world
His ego is 10 times the size too
If he spat his dummy out at Mancini having a go at him,who knows how he will react being dropped
Let's hope he knuckles down and works hard to get back in the team.