Discuss Pellegrini...

[Anonymous]

Genuine question, but how would picking Milner have stopped any of Liverpool's goals? One was a set piece and two came from our left side.

Their first goal - the ball that got to Suarez was actually from a lightweight Navas challenge. Now, I'm not gonna say from that Navas caused their first as that would be quite silly and the defence should have done a lot better. Their second from the corner - Navas stood in no man's land, not picking up anyone. Again, would be hugely trite to blame Navas for the goal as, again, Vinnie gets done. Picking Milner might not have altered the outcomes there one iota. However, maybe it would - we'll never know.

What I'm driving at though is before the game surely you look at what the opposition are likely to do, how they are likely to try and boss midfield etc. At that point, I would have expected a thought process - "ok, Milner can give us some additional solidity in the game today that Navas won't. Too much of a risk to play Navas from the off, I'll keep him on the bench in case we need to attack tired legs in the last 20 mins" or something along those lines.

We looked an absolute different proposition when he came on, we pushed them back into their half, pretty much back to their box. Imagine if we'd managed to exert that kind of authority from the outset?

It seemed a no brainer to me?

Henderson Gerrard Coutinho and Sterling vs Yaya Dinho Navas and Nasri doesn't look to me like any kind of mismatch requiring any kind of additional solidity. Personally I would've considered Milner because him and Silva time and time again link up superbly in attack, but the fact the manager went with Navas for me was fair enough. He was more dangerous than Nasri in the first half.

I think if you watch the game back in a few days you'll see how unlucky we were. Two stone wall pens not given, Vinny making two mistakes because he wasn't 100%. It's football.

Disagree mate re the midfield being mismatched. Agree with you about us being hugely unlucky though. Onwards and upwards.

 

[bluesimon]

Ultimately we lost because of mistakes by Kompany.

I'm more concerned about the lack of protection for the back four. Yaya Toure has been exposed this season for not providing that protecting. Under Mancini we defended deep so this weakness of his wasn't known. But now it is known by all of us and it is time that Pellgrini gave Javi Garcia a permanent place in the first team. I've had enough of watching our back four being terrorized this season, they've had way too much work to do.

Pellegrini has my full backing, but if he perseveres with Toure I can no longer support him afraid.

R u honestly suggesting that even if Yaya was not injured, you would replace him with Garcia? Garcia is the perfect 2nd string off the bench type for us. Yaya has been sensational this season, with the added benefit of becoming a free kick specialist..............Garcia is OK, but not worthy of taking over from Yaya

 

[gungho-tactics]

Ultimately we lost because of mistakes by Kompany.

I'm more concerned about the lack of protection for the back four. Yaya Toure has been exposed this season for not providing that protecting. Under Mancini we defended deep so this weakness of his wasn't known. But now it is known by all of us and it is time that Pellgrini gave Javi Garcia a permanent place in the first team. I've had enough of watching our back four being terrorized this season, they've had way too much work to do.

Pellegrini has my full backing, but if he perseveres with Toure I can no longer support him afraid.

R u honestly suggesting that even if Yaya was not injured, you would replace him with Garcia? Garcia is the perfect 2nd string off the bench type for us. Yaya has been sensational this season, with the added benefit of becoming a free kick specialist..............Garcia is OK, but not worthy of taking over from Yaya

Yaya is sensational with the ball. Off-the ball he is like a headless chicken.

Fact - First 20 minutes Liverpool were all over us. Then Javi comes on for Toure and then all of a sudden we get back into the game. This is no coincidence. Javi does work off-the ball, he frustrates Liverpool by getting certain areas that Liverpool want to get into. Without making tackles and interceptions he influences the game. Yaya must be sold to Juventus or something. We simply cannot be held hostage anymore.

 

[shadowyu]

So, I was going to post in a post-match thread but seeing that there isn't one, here are my thoughts which mostly concern Pellegrini anyway:

1. We approached the game completely wrong. We were impotent. I think that against Liverpool, you either have to set out to attack or to defend. You can't line up in a spineless manner where you will maybe attack and maybe defend. Since Pellers wanted to play 4-2-3-1, he should have started Garcia and not Navas (move Garcia back to play with Ferna, keep Yaya in a bit more offensive role). Or, if he wanted to attack, he should have lined up 2 attackers plus Kolarov at the back, and it that case should have just gone for it. The way he set up, it was a defensive lineup with Navas, Silva and Nasri all in it. Not going to work against Liverpool.

2. Liverpool are a phenomenal team. What an amazing amount of chemistry and desire they all have, from Skrtel to Suarez and Sturridge. Just a bunch of people who are hungry to win.

3. Liverpool will drop points against Chelsea because Chelsea will set out to defend and will manage at least a draw.

 

[NYRB]

Ultimately we lost because of mistakes by Kompany.

I'm more concerned about the lack of protection for the back four. Yaya Toure has been exposed this season for not providing that protecting. Under Mancini we defended deep so this weakness of his wasn't known. But now it is known by all of us and it is time that Pellgrini gave Javi Garcia a permanent place in the first team. I've had enough of watching our back four being terrorized this season, they've had way too much work to do.

Pellegrini has my full backing, but if he perseveres with Toure I can no longer support him afraid.

R u honestly suggesting that even if Yaya was not injured, you would replace him with Garcia? Garcia is the perfect 2nd string off the bench type for us. Yaya has been sensational this season, with the added benefit of becoming a free kick specialist..............Garcia is OK, but not worthy of taking over from Yaya

Yaya is sensational with the ball. Off-the ball he is like a headless chicken.

Fact - First 20 minutes Liverpool were all over us. Then Javi comes on for Toure and then all of a sudden we get back into the game. This is no coincidence. Javi does work off-the ball, he frustrates Liverpool by getting certain areas that Liverpool want to get into. Without making tackles and interceptions he influences the game. Yaya must be sold to Juventus or something. We simply cannot be held hostage anymore.

we got back in the game when Garcia came on? I thought we were battered the first half with or without Garcia. The difference was when Milner came on imo

 

[oppa gangnam style]

Not a surprise loss. We were awful in first half of Soton game. Fast goal from a pen in the start, then a pressing team easily dominated the play until we were lucky to score an offside goal 35 minutes later but that was after Soton deservedly came back into the game with a pen. We won 4-1, but the performance still could have been lot better.

Arsenal game before that, what a truly awful second half we had... We nearly lost to a toothless Arsenal without their best players, lost many games before that game, and then went to everton after our game and got raped there 3-0 and now Wigan just lost to them on pens...
While we were lucky in the end to come away with a draw from Emirates.

Now this Pool game, what an awful first half. Slow start, open midfield, joke defensive mistakes, especially positioning and man marking...
We hardly could keep the ball at Pool's half, 3 passes were rare in a row, our first real shot on target was after 30-35 minutes.

Then we came back into it slowly, 2-1, 2-2 with a lucky rebound goal, and nearly scored the 3rd one, when Kompany thinks he cannot kick the ball out to row Z, and it goes to Coutinho...

All we needed beat Soton, beat this toothless Arsenal and beat Pool or at least draw it.

This 7 points would put us on 75 points with 2 games behind. Chelsea/Pool would be on 75 points as well.

But the awful second half at Emirates and the first half at Anfield cost us dearly. Some of the first halves these were whole season in so important games late in the season.

We had one full week to prepare for Pool game. In the first half it seemed like they prepared for our weaknesses and we prepared for them being able to use their strengths. Like they looking Skrtel head at corners. What a surprise. Yet Clichy, Kompany looked surprised Skrtel moves away from them for the ball. Or when at an other corner the ball found Gerrard as alone as he can be for a clear header, Hart had to react so fast luckily he did.
Corner goals are always who wants it more, who is able to lose his defender and go for the ball. Like Dzeko stepped away from Ferdinand in the derby. How I laughed at piss poor Ferdinand. Kompany tried to copy him.
There was no fucking way Skrtel would let us head a ball at corner so alone as Gerrard did at our goal or Skrtel, even if we could they clear it from the line.

Then Suarez assist to Sterling, Kompany doesnt know where he is, so many big mistakes from him in so many games (red card vs Hull, penalty for Sunderland in League Cup final, vs Barca he steps ahead leaves Demichelis in shit vs Messi etc.), then Hart comes but why the fuck, they stand there with Kompany waiting to be fucked in the ass by Sterling who basically pisses in their face and scores...

And few minutes later Sturridge gets ahead of the defenders gets the ball from maybe Henderson same way as Sterling earlier, and nearly scores...

There was no one tracking these runs, there was no one stopping the players making these great assists into the box. What the fuck Pellegrini was preparing for whole week?
Timberlake concert was surely great for our players, wish it would have been some videos about Liverpool plays vs every team.

Milner came in, did more in 5 minutes than Navas and Nasri together whole game. I bet if Milner was Spanish he would play more.
Navas and Nasri went hiding for 5-10 minutes periods when the going gets tough. Everyone knows this. its one of their big weaknesses especially in big games where you need "war mentality".

All we should have done is Garcia, Fernandinho, Yaya in the middle, to make it hard for Pool to run tourgh us in the middle. Even in second half they were easily gettinginto wide positions, they had line 4 good situations all ended as offsides but if just one of those are not offside its a clear chance for them. All off those chances came from them just going trough our midfield like hot knife trough butter.
Whatever Garcia, Fernadinho was doing, it didnt work.
Nasri tracking back was like mine. Nonexistent.

Instead of a midfield trio we went for a duo, vs a team that will press like maniacs, no good idea to play Yaya deeper vs team slike this as losing the ball deeper vs Suarez, or Sterling can cost you a goal...
Especially when you need lot of help off the ball from Navas, Nasri, Clichy who go hiding...
Unlike Milner or Kolarov.

I am not saying Nasri or Navas didnt have some great games for us this season. But if we rely on them as starting players, and compare team to the teams we want to beat like Bayern, Barca, Real, PSG they wouldnt not play there with their current mentality.
Henderson or Coutinho or Sterling maybe not as skilled as Nasri, but their mentality vs Nasri's is not even the same league. Probably all are going to the WC from Pool, while there is big question marks over Nasri's inclusion by Deschamps in the French sqad because of his "morale"...

I only will have any hope in Pellegrini if he uses the transfer market in summer to make the right changes in the squad. Big radical transfer window is needed, not just fine tuning. One top class CB wont solve our defensive problems, far from it. Especially not a young, raw Mangala for 30m pounds. He could need 2 full years to get used to the PL pace.
Any time we dont have the ball we have to improve in those times a lot. How to defend as a team, move together as a team, press from the front, track back, I mean Sterling was running trough our midfield, left 3 City players and they werent running after him just watching him. He used that time to look for who can he pass to. Then ended with a bad shot, but that doesnt matter.

Dzeko, Clichy, Nasri, Lescott, these 4 players not good enough to be regulars and take up big wages. Some of the regular Bayern players earn less then these 4 players (like Kroos, Dante). But you can believe Guardiola wouldnt put up with their mentality or simply skill level like Dzeko cant handle a ball sometimes or like Lescott scared by the ball. Or the way Nasri can hide, or like Clichy instead of using his space to beat a man, turns back, slows attacks down, passes it back, and is far from rock solid defensively, while nowhere near good enough going forward. He was good when we needed to improve on Bridge. But would he start ever at Bayern or Real. No fucking way. Alaba already a monster compared to him.
Richards should go as well.

Joe Hart has to answer for his mistakes too. Cost us too much this season. People said he is back to his best after Pelle made him to think, well cant see how is he back to his best. Handanovic would be my pick, wouldnt cost a lot, maybe a transfer with Dzeko could help.
And then for a time Hart could start and when he makes mistakes he is dropped for good. He was never scared of Pantilimon can keep his place, but would be scared or lot more motivated vs a better GK.
Or would accept the situation and then he could leave. Either way we would improve our current GK situation. And thats the most important.
In the defence, midfield, and attacking line too...

Midfield needs big change, both personel, both formation. We wont win much with being this open. We will play great, have great games, score a lot, and win not many things. If Pelle doesnt like pragmatism thats OK. But in the PL he had a year to learn it how its done. Not the way he thought...

Being too open was punished in the PL many times, also many times we were lucky we didnt get punished because of it. You also cant play gih line with players not able to do it.
You cant press with players not able to do it, or players dont want to press just when they want to press. Its sad but we have these players.
Some of the big names, Agüero, Dzeko, yaya, Nasri...
They fucking rule the dressing room.

If Pellegrini is strong enough he "cuts" their head off. And makes them to change their way of playing or sell them or get players that are able to do what is asked. Players have to buy into the coach's plans.

For us it seems like the players didnt really do that, and Pelle didnt want problems in the dressing room and wanted to make everyone happy, as we are a happy family now after Mancini era as we know, and opted for an easier stlye for the players but pretty flawed style which is far from getting the best out of the team.
Maybe the original plans of Pelle were great and we would be lot closer to the trasition if he keeps up with those but didnt risk it as saw some players not upto it.

I hope he tries it again changing some of the players. Thats my hope for next year. Not sure he willbe able to do that, as building a team playing well, exciting football is one thing, and playing the same with huge desire of success, mentality of winners, with players that are ready to go trough walls for trophies not only when it suits them or for 45 minutes per match, or only when you are behind 2-0 like vs Wigan in Cup or Pool ...
Not the same thing. He never built a successful team playing well winning trophies. He has no track record of that in Europe.

One more year is I would give to Pelle and a big help in transfers in the summer. At least he has a help in Txiki not like a fucking moron (incompetent in transfers) opponent like Mancini had in Marwood.

But for a minute imagine now if Pelle would be backed in transfers like Mancini was 2012 summer. Wanted top players in early. Maybe some of his ideas were over the top. De Rossi, T. Silva, RVP, Hazard etc. At least one we cold have bought tho easily.
He got old Maicon, youngster no name Nastasic, Garcia and crocked Rodwell and mighty Sinclair as wide option muhahaha last day of the window...
If the same happened for Pelle now, as he wants a top CB, a good midfielder, and all he got last day of August is a Ryan Shawcross and Darron Gibson.
He would be as mad at Txiki as Mancini was at Marwood.:)
Hopefully this nightmare transfer window never happenes here again.

We failed this season, winning only the League Cup is not what the owners wanted clearly. We improved somewhat in CL not failing already in early stages, but some of that clearly down to easier draw.
Last season was a big fail, this season not as big. But still it seems two wasted season and we spent closely 150m on the team in new players. The Fa Cup won last year by a relegated Wigan, the league will be going to a squad that just dreams of having as many good players we have. Yet they turned their squad into huge favourite this year 4 matches before the end. Why didnt we do the same with our squad?
Thats what we have to think on, and solve it instead of excuses like refs, luck, injuries etc.

One more season for Pelle, honestly dont know ishe up to the pressure he will be under. Sometimes really looks an older man he is and he is not young of course, he has to deliver the title, and excuses wont stand like he surprised how smaller English teams fight, or away games how tough can be vs them, or first season is always hard etc. He saw a lot of the PL football this year. He took over a team that plays together for years, he spent 90m on it to make it stronger. Its lot different scenario than when Mancini took over a complete different squads with lot of new players, no team feeling at all, complete joke defence by Sparky, problematic players like Robinho, Bellamy, Tevez etc...
Fight for top4 not the title...
Pelle took over at a lot easier scenario, in two years if he cant win the league once, no reason to try any more. In this case I hope we go for R. Martinez before United or arsenal go for him. He would make any of them a true contender in no time. While Chelsea wont go anywhere, also Pool seems like in good place in Rodgers hands...
A top manager could easily turn even Tottenham into something serious. Thats why I hope they fuck up the manager decision.

 

[MSP]

R u honestly suggesting that even if Yaya was not injured, you would replace him with Garcia? Garcia is the perfect 2nd string off the bench type for us. Yaya has been sensational this season, with the added benefit of becoming a free kick specialist..............Garcia is OK, but not worthy of taking over from Yaya

Yaya is sensational with the ball. Off-the ball he is like a headless chicken.

Fact - First 20 minutes Liverpool were all over us. Then Javi comes on for Toure and then all of a sudden we get back into the game. This is no coincidence. Javi does work off-the ball, he frustrates Liverpool by getting certain areas that Liverpool want to get into. Without making tackles and interceptions he influences the game. Yaya must be sold to Juventus or something. We simply cannot be held hostage anymore.

we got back in the game when Garcia came on? I thought we were battered the first half with or without Garcia. The difference was when Milner came on imo

No we were not battered throughout of first time. We were battered in first 30 minutes and in next 15 had them making a goal line clearance, Fernandinho's great chance and clear penalty.

Liverpool were really better for not more than 30 minutes today.

 

[TrueBlue1705]

Well at least he started Clichy today, we needed his pace, another City player the fans like to knock but not many better left-backs about ....

But why did Milner not start??? .... I'm beginning to think Pellegrini is anti English players .... IMO Nasri was shit for most of the first half. Liverpool were always going to come out of the blocks like a train for the first 25-30 mins, they've done it all season .... Milner and Navas would have given us a more solid look for me. Navas has his critics but I personally think he works bloody hard for the team.

Nasri could have come on at half time after we'd weathered the Liverpool storm....

 

[CITYROBBO]

The tactical side Pellegrini impressed me from 2-0 down we could have imploded but his changes and organisation worked well..

His first season in charge he has progressed very nicely which can only be good for long term success..

 

[lancs blue]

Well at least he started Clichy today, we needed his pace, another City player the fans like to knock but not many better left-backs about ....

But why did Milner not start??? .... I'm beginning to think Pellegrini is anti English players .... IMO Nasri was shit for most of the first half. Liverpool were always going to come out of the blocks like a train for the first 25-30 mins, they've done it all season .... Milner and Navas would have given us a more solid look for me. Navas has his critics but I personally think he works bloody hard for the team.

Nasri could have come on at half time after we'd weathered the Liverpool storm....

I thought he was another who had a poor first half, admittedly not helped by Nasri going AWOL defensively but he was nowhere near good enough.

Agree that starting Milner ahead of Nasri would have helped to help deal with the attacking threat of Sterling and Johnson down their right. I admire Pellegrini's devotion to attacking football but now and then a little pragmatism can go a long way to winning titles.