Discuss Pellegrini...

[mancity111]

I'd expect that comment from a two bit tabloid hack on the Sunday Supplement if i'm honest.

yeah bit OTT it could be put another way, With an England international striker and a 3 time PL winning defender in the back 4

Of course its OTT. Thats the point. Chelsea have been crying out for striker all season and they let one go who just may help fire Liverpool to the title - hence 'Chelsea reject'. Same with Kolo. Deemed not good enough for us and let go on a free. And where to? Thats right Liverpool in order to help them (possibly) beat us to the title. You have to have a heart of stone not to cry at the irony. The one I forgot was Victor Moses and many thanks to chris85 for pointing it out. It made my day.

The cherry picking a post in an attempt to deflect from the actual points raised re big games has become a predictable tactic closely followed by the "...well you liked Mancini blah, blah" pivot which I guess is one way of not dealing with the issues. I am on record here saying that the League Cup was on my personal bucket list and thank you Mr Pellers. Its purely a personal thing and not shared by everyone but there you go.

I still think we have an excellent chance of winning the league but the points remain:

1) Pellers in game management is too passive.
2) Use of subs is too predictable and seems to be pre planned with no account taken of game momentum.
3) The big games. Our record against our immediate title rivals is poor. Played 6. Won 2. Drawn 1. Lost 3. Games against your immediate rivals in a tight race are crucial given the point swing. At three key points in the season where the title was there for us to take control we failed to do so. Slip up once well ok. Twice is a concern. Three times is fucking criminal. In the CL our 4 big games were Played 4. Won 1. Lost 3. And the one we won was a dead rubber. There is a pattern. There is always a pattern. So far we have dismissed the pattern in favour of 'players making mistakes' and 'bad refs' and yes at Anfield we are playing the ref and will not get some decisions just as Liverpool didn't get some decisions when we played them at home so guess what don't give them a 2 goal fucking head start.

I am not looking for Pellers to go. He won't go anyway and as I said I was made up over winning the League Cup so I am not interested in calling for his sacking even if we don't win the league. But if we do lose the league to Liverpool there will be a few managers including Pellers who will have to take a long hard fucking look at themselves and seriously up their game next season. Furthermore if we do lose out to Liverpool and/or finish 3rd I do not want to hear any more fucking garbage about the vast improvement this season or whining about what a **** Mancini was as a) I already knew he was a ****, b) I didn't care he was **** and c) the **** wouldn't have finished fucking third.

Now all that said this title race is far from over and the thought of the summer with Liverpool as Champions is frankly too awful to contemplate so lets win the next 6 fucking games and make sure it never happens and that we never speak of it again. Ever.

He wasn't the clubs first choice and probably wasn't the second choice either , who knows he might not have been our third choice but it is his first season in the premiership so for that reason I think he has to be cut a bit of slack.

It's a learning curve for him despite his years in management and I agree the bar will be set a bit higher next season but lets see what happens in the next 6 games first starting with Sunderland.

Rogers obviously as has come to light wasn't Liverpool's first choice either when King Kenny was shown the door but as things have transpired he has had all the right doors open for him to go from 7th last season to where they are favourites to win the title this year.

I personally never regarded King Kenny a great manager but he won a title with Blackburn and 3 at Liverpool and no Liverpool manager has come within a bulls roar of his winning percentage since his first time in charge so the fact that Rogers has them at the precipice doesn't surprise me.

Annoying yes that we haven't got the results against Chelski and Liverpool that we would have liked but 1-1-4 from our first six away games we both agreed Bob might come back to bite us.

The first 25 minutes on Sunday was a bit of a microcosm of our early away form ie terrible in patches of away games and punished on the scoreboard as a result.

There is no easy solution , no season is perfect and I think we have to hope we learn as a club from top to bottom and do things better in player injury management in particular soft tissue injury mamagement before we can hot the heights we know we can.

Too many of our key players have been missing in games we needed them fit and firing eg Aguerro last Sunday.

 

[01cravend]

It actually appeals to me in some ways. I like us to control matches. Not controlling matches drives me insane.

It also appeals to me.

However,i also appreciate the 'cavalier' approach,perhaps a half way house is the answer?

When Pelle has had his fill...... Uwe Rosler anyone?

No, you can't go from managing in the championship to managing a top 4 side. See him in the prem first where the pressure is enormous and you are under constant scrutiny. That's where he'd prove whether he's a Martinez/Rodgers or a Lambert/Malkay

 

[bluemc1]

As for Pellers, I cannot see it being anything other than the three years, whatever happens, and then Pep. Like you, I am a simple M20 lad and so can't do 'complicated'. Take care, our kid.

I think it's as plain as day too mate.

Three years with Pellegrini will be the minimum we will get. The only way I could ever have foreseen a circumstance where he didn't see out the minimum 3 years was if this season collapsed and Pellegrini did a Moyes. Thankfully the Chilean David has made mincemeat of the real David and has also managed to keep pace with the Machiavellian genius that is Mourinho and on that basis the only future I do see is another two season with Manuel followed by Pep.

I should stop trying to force people to be as content and as sanguine as I am about our future. If people want to fret about Pellegrini's dull press conferences or his lack of reactive in game management that's their business. I'll wait until I see a real problem in his managerial armour, one that makes the players not want to play for him, before I start worrying!

i would say there should be more to base it on than just players liking him or not, i have been fully behind him all season and could see a reason or both sides to all things he has done this year until sunday where i started to think maybe it is just because the players are top players we would have won most games anyway, for the first time on sunday i thought he got it seriously wrong and was sure before the game he was going to line up the way i was hoping.
My case was "as long as he learns" but I'm now worried he hasn't or doesn't, just really frustrated at the moment thinking these players won't be around forever Kompany, Silva, YaYa, Kun and i think we could have won the title the last 2 years now without these fuck ups.

 

[BobKowalski]

yeah bit OTT it could be put another way, With an England international striker and a 3 time PL winning defender in the back 4

Of course its OTT. Thats the point. Chelsea have been crying out for striker all season and they let one go who just may help fire Liverpool to the title - hence 'Chelsea reject'. Same with Kolo. Deemed not good enough for us and let go on a free. And where to? Thats right Liverpool in order to help them (possibly) beat us to the title. You have to have a heart of stone not to cry at the irony. The one I forgot was Victor Moses and many thanks to chris85 for pointing it out. It made my day.

The cherry picking a post in an attempt to deflect from the actual points raised re big games has become a predictable tactic closely followed by the "...well you liked Mancini blah, blah" pivot which I guess is one way of not dealing with the issues. I am on record here saying that the League Cup was on my personal bucket list and thank you Mr Pellers. Its purely a personal thing and not shared by everyone but there you go.

I still think we have an excellent chance of winning the league but the points remain:

1) Pellers in game management is too passive.
2) Use of subs is too predictable and seems to be pre planned with no account taken of game momentum.
3) The big games. Our record against our immediate title rivals is poor. Played 6. Won 2. Drawn 1. Lost 3. Games against your immediate rivals in a tight race are crucial given the point swing. At three key points in the season where the title was there for us to take control we failed to do so. Slip up once well ok. Twice is a concern. Three times is fucking criminal. In the CL our 4 big games were Played 4. Won 1. Lost 3. And the one we won was a dead rubber. There is a pattern. There is always a pattern. So far we have dismissed the pattern in favour of 'players making mistakes' and 'bad refs' and yes at Anfield we are playing the ref and will not get some decisions just as Liverpool didn't get some decisions when we played them at home so guess what don't give them a 2 goal fucking head start.

I am not looking for Pellers to go. He won't go anyway and as I said I was made up over winning the League Cup so I am not interested in calling for his sacking even if we don't win the league. But if we do lose the league to Liverpool there will be a few managers including Pellers who will have to take a long hard fucking look at themselves and seriously up their game next season. Furthermore if we do lose out to Liverpool and/or finish 3rd I do not want to hear any more fucking garbage about the vast improvement this season or whining about what a **** Mancini was as a) I already knew he was a ****, b) I didn't care he was **** and c) the **** wouldn't have finished fucking third.

Now all that said this title race is far from over and the thought of the summer with Liverpool as Champions is frankly too awful to contemplate so lets win the next 6 fucking games and make sure it never happens and that we never speak of it again. Ever.

He wasn't the clubs first choice and probably wasn't the second choice either , who knows he might not have been our third choice but it is his first season in the premiership so for that reason I think he has to be cut a bit of slack.

It's a learning curve for him despite his years in management and I agree the bar will be set a bit higher next season but lets see what happens in the next 6 games first starting with Sunderland.

Rogers obviously as has come to light wasn't Liverpool's first choice either when King Kenny was shown the door but as things have transpired he has had all the right doors open for him to go from 7th last season to where they are favourites to win the title this year.

I personally never regarded King Kenny a great manager but he won a title with Blackburn and 3 at Liverpool and no Liverpool manager has come within a bulls roar of his winning percentage since his first time in charge so the fact that Rogers has them at the precipice doesn't surprise me.

Annoying yes that we haven't got the results against Chelski and Liverpool that we would have liked but 1-1-4 from our first six away games we both agreed Bob might come back to bite us.

The first 25 minutes on Sunday was a bit of a microcosm of our early away form ie terrible in patches of away games and punished on the scoreboard as a result.

There is no easy solution , no season is perfect and I think we have to hope we learn as a club from top to bottom and do things better in player injury management in particular soft tissue injury mamagement before we can hot the heights we know we can.

Too many of our key players have been missing in games we needed them fit and firing eg Aguerro last Sunday.

Fair enough. Despite my penchant for the OTT I am quite relaxed about the season especially having already bagged a trophy.

I do think that Liverpool winning the title is not just a reflection on Pellers but on Mourinho and Wenger in particular. It also says a lot about Moyes but then the whole season has said an awful lot about Moyes. Martinez grabbing a CL spot would be hilarious.

 

[mancity111]

As for Pellers, I cannot see it being anything other than the three years, whatever happens, and then Pep. Like you, I am a simple M20 lad and so can't do 'complicated'. Take care, our kid.

I think it's as plain as day too mate.

Three years with Pellegrini will be the minimum we will get. The only way I could ever have foreseen a circumstance where he didn't see out the minimum 3 years was if this season collapsed and Pellegrini did a Moyes. Thankfully the Chilean David has made mincemeat of the real David and has also managed to keep pace with the Machiavellian genius that is Mourinho and on that basis the only future I do see is another two season with Manuel followed by Pep.

I should stop trying to force people to be as content and as sanguine as I am about our future. If people want to fret about Pellegrini's dull press conferences or his lack of reactive in game management that's their business. I'll wait until I see a real problem in his managerial armour, one that makes the players not want to play for him for example, before I start worrying!

I think like all managers at this level of expectation Billy , meeting the targets required is what will get you another season in charge.

This season I thought it would be progression in the chumps league beyond the group stage and qualifying again.

Given it is his first season and the players bought in that was the minimum requirement for MP.

I would be surprised if it was lower than that irrespective of player unrest etc but if I am incorrect in my assumption then the owners are less ambitious than I would have thought as manager replacement should be seamless if your club is being run well from the top down.

Next season it will be set higher and should we come up short I would expect MP to be replaced just as I would have thought RM would have been if he came up short of his targets during his tenure.

That's the way our club is now.

Pep would have been under some scrutiny if Bayern didn't win the German League this season with what he has and so he should have been irrespective of whether they go back to back in the Chumps League.

 

[Paul_Powers_Tash]

As for Pellers, I cannot see it being anything other than the three years, whatever happens, and then Pep. Like you, I am a simple M20 lad and so can't do 'complicated'. Take care, our kid.

I think it's as plain as day too mate.

Three years with Pellegrini will be the minimum we will get. The only way I could ever have foreseen a circumstance where he didn't see out the minimum 3 years was if this season collapsed and Pellegrini did a Moyes. Thankfully the Chilean David has made mincemeat of the real David and has also managed to keep pace with the Machiavellian genius that is Mourinho and on that basis the only future I do see is another two season with Manuel followed by Pep.

I should stop trying to force people to be as content and as sanguine as I am about our future. If people want to fret about Pellegrini's dull press conferences or his lack of reactive in game management that's their business. I'll wait until I see a real problem in his managerial armour, one that makes the players not want to play for him for example, before I start worrying!

Problem in his managerial armour? How about not being able to select the right tactics to exploit the opposition whilst minimising their threat? A fairly important attribute in my book. And have I missed something, when did Pep give us the thumbs up?

 

[Anonymous]

i would say there should be more to base it on than just players liking him or not, i have been fully behind him all season and could see a reason or both sides to all things he has done this year until sunday where i started to think maybe it is just because the players are top players we would have won most games anyway, for the first time on sunday i thought he got it seriously wrong and was sure before the game he was going to line up the way i was hoping.
My case was "as long as he learns" but I'm now worried he hasn't or doesn't, just really frustrated at the moment thinking these players won't be around forever Kompany, Silva, YaYa, Kun and i think we could have won the title the last 2 years now without these fuck ups.

My point isn't about players liking him or not. It's about the players respecting him enough to listen and react when he asks things of them. It's an absolutely crucial characteristic the manager of a top team needs to have. Not even Mourinho uses the stick all the time - he constantly feeds his players carrots too to ensure they maintain a healthy amount of respect for him. What i was saying is that for me I have yet to see some glaring weakness in Pellegrini's coaching armoury which makes me think "shit he's not going to be good enough".

In terms of us having top players who "win" games for us - well that's why you buy top players. However they still need to be motivated, coached, and organised in such a manner that they are capable of competing consistently. Nasri for example was anything but a match winner for most of last season, and yet this season was our standout players until his injury.

Discussion about team selection are always IMO wildly subjective. Many people have said that Milner doesn't get enough games and that he should be picked more often especially away from home because that's when he's at his best. Yet against Sunderland away we lost with Milner starting ... and in actual fact we only looked like scoring a goal after Navas came on.

Overall I think the important thing to remember is that we are STILL in the title race. Anyone who thinks the points we've collected so far this season, the position we're in, is not good enough and is a significant underachievement is wrong and this will be born out in the total lack of pressure that will come to bare on the manager from the board. You cannot expect to win everything every year. You can expect to be competitive - and no not in an Arsenal lets win the 4th place trophy kind of way - i mean competitive in taking the title race right to the wire which it looks like we'll do again.

 

[mancity111]

Of course its OTT. Thats the point. Chelsea have been crying out for striker all season and they let one go who just may help fire Liverpool to the title - hence 'Chelsea reject'. Same with Kolo. Deemed not good enough for us and let go on a free. And where to? Thats right Liverpool in order to help them (possibly) beat us to the title. You have to have a heart of stone not to cry at the irony. The one I forgot was Victor Moses and many thanks to chris85 for pointing it out. It made my day.

The cherry picking a post in an attempt to deflect from the actual points raised re big games has become a predictable tactic closely followed by the "...well you liked Mancini blah, blah" pivot which I guess is one way of not dealing with the issues. I am on record here saying that the League Cup was on my personal bucket list and thank you Mr Pellers. Its purely a personal thing and not shared by everyone but there you go.

I still think we have an excellent chance of winning the league but the points remain:

1) Pellers in game management is too passive.
2) Use of subs is too predictable and seems to be pre planned with no account taken of game momentum.
3) The big games. Our record against our immediate title rivals is poor. Played 6. Won 2. Drawn 1. Lost 3. Games against your immediate rivals in a tight race are crucial given the point swing. At three key points in the season where the title was there for us to take control we failed to do so. Slip up once well ok. Twice is a concern. Three times is fucking criminal. In the CL our 4 big games were Played 4. Won 1. Lost 3. And the one we won was a dead rubber. There is a pattern. There is always a pattern. So far we have dismissed the pattern in favour of 'players making mistakes' and 'bad refs' and yes at Anfield we are playing the ref and will not get some decisions just as Liverpool didn't get some decisions when we played them at home so guess what don't give them a 2 goal fucking head start.

I am not looking for Pellers to go. He won't go anyway and as I said I was made up over winning the League Cup so I am not interested in calling for his sacking even if we don't win the league. But if we do lose the league to Liverpool there will be a few managers including Pellers who will have to take a long hard fucking look at themselves and seriously up their game next season. Furthermore if we do lose out to Liverpool and/or finish 3rd I do not want to hear any more fucking garbage about the vast improvement this season or whining about what a **** Mancini was as a) I already knew he was a ****, b) I didn't care he was **** and c) the **** wouldn't have finished fucking third.

Now all that said this title race is far from over and the thought of the summer with Liverpool as Champions is frankly too awful to contemplate so lets win the next 6 fucking games and make sure it never happens and that we never speak of it again. Ever.

He wasn't the clubs first choice and probably wasn't the second choice either , who knows he might not have been our third choice but it is his first season in the premiership so for that reason I think he has to be cut a bit of slack.

It's a learning curve for him despite his years in management and I agree the bar will be set a bit higher next season but lets see what happens in the next 6 games first starting with Sunderland.

Rogers obviously as has come to light wasn't Liverpool's first choice either when King Kenny was shown the door but as things have transpired he has had all the right doors open for him to go from 7th last season to where they are favourites to win the title this year.

I personally never regarded King Kenny a great manager but he won a title with Blackburn and 3 at Liverpool and no Liverpool manager has come within a bulls roar of his winning percentage since his first time in charge so the fact that Rogers has them at the precipice doesn't surprise me.

Annoying yes that we haven't got the results against Chelski and Liverpool that we would have liked but 1-1-4 from our first six away games we both agreed Bob might come back to bite us.

The first 25 minutes on Sunday was a bit of a microcosm of our early away form ie terrible in patches of away games and punished on the scoreboard as a result.

There is no easy solution , no season is perfect and I think we have to hope we learn as a club from top to bottom and do things better in player injury management in particular soft tissue injury mamagement before we can hot the heights we know we can.

Too many of our key players have been missing in games we needed them fit and firing eg Aguerro last Sunday.

Fair enough. Despite my penchant for the OTT I am quite relaxed about the season especially having already bagged a trophy.

I do think that Liverpool winning the title is not just a reflection on Pellers but on Mourinho and Wenger in particular. It also says a lot about Moyes but then the whole season has said an awful lot about Moyes. Martinez grabbing a CL spot would be hilarious.

Yep I concur and its summarised in one of my sentences above.

Don't get me wrong MP is not off the hook by any stretch , I expect us to win our next 6 games and irrespective of whether that's good enough or not to claim the prize I think we will learn more about MP and his tenure for next season in the next 6 games than we have in the first 32.

Those like Billy saying he is a shoe in for 3 seasons are jumping the gun even if he is liked by the players the Spanish duo and those higher up in the sacking train.

Next season is where the bar will be set higher , I am not convinced yet that MP is anything more than a stop gap to keep and even keel on and off the pitch until the next man steps in the chair.

Naturally I hope he does get at least 3 years because that will mean trophies in years 2 and year 3 because that's what the owners will demand of a City manager now and lets face it FFPR or no FFPR isn't that fair enough with what our managers have at their disposal.

 

[Anonymous]

I think like all managers at this level of expectation Billy , meeting the targets required is what will get you another season in charge.

This season I thought it would be progression in the chumps league beyond the group stage and qualifying again.

Given it is his first season and the players bought in that was the minimum requirement for MP.

I would be surprised if it was lower than that irrespective of player unrest etc but if I am incorrect in my assumption then the owners are less ambitious than I would have thought as manager replacement should be seamless if your club is being run well from the top down.

Next season it will be set higher and should we come up short I would expect MP to be replaced just as I would have thought RM would have been if he came up short of his targets during his tenure.

That's the way our club is now.

Pep would have been under some scrutiny if Bayern didn't win the German League this season with what he has and so he should have been irrespective of whether they go back to back in the Chumps League.

I just don't think it's as binary as "win title stay" "lose title sacked" - well not unless you're Real Madrid. Of course there's expectations and systematic failure to meet them regularly will see any manager out on their arse. However there also needs to be a healthy amount of realism when assessing whether or not a manager is the right one to carry on with. For want of a better cliche there's always a danger you throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[gungho-tactics]

It actually appeals to me in some ways. I like us to control matches. Not controlling matches drives me insane.

It also appeals to me.

However,i also appreciate the 'cavalier' approach,perhaps a half way house is the answer?

When Pelle has had his fill...... Uwe Rosler anyone?

Why not. He's doing well in the Championship and reached an Fa Cup Semi Final by beating none other than Pellegrini.