Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2014/15 (continued)

[Mr HJ]

I have the feeling that the players actually enjoyed having a calm, eloquent manager after the firebrand that was Roberto. I was led to believe that under Mancini the players constantly were on edge due to his change of moods - one day he was fine the next he was unapproachable. The funny thing is now nearly two years down the line these players are acting like young children or puppies if you will. I suspect that as they are allowed to have an easier ride under our holistic approach (whatever that was mean't to be!) some literally are not concerned, hence the lack of work rate. I think it goes to show that sometimes calm, nice men don't win. Mercer was a gentlemen but by all accounts had a nasty side that was kept in the dressing room.

Having spent a few days considering what has happened, not only on Sunday but during the last 15 games I am led to a conclusion. In all my years of seeing disappointment after disappointment - when we had to stand on rickety stands in Southend and Notts County to constantly being second best, to applauding Arsenal off at Maine Road when they had outplayed us I have never felt so let down by a group of players. I am trying hard not to point the finger at individuals and can only look at the team as a collective. The simple truth is that only a manager who puts the fear of God into the players, whether that be by total respect or by having an unpredictable side will we see a return to the level of performance this team owes the club and fans. I like Manuel but it is time to change and the sooner the better. Thank you Manuel for last year but the club must move on to secure fourth at the very least. Fortunately we have the best run in but with the attitude of some of our squad nothing is a given.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

If players are protesting against the manager....

Why don't they ignore his instructions and just go out and play as they seem fit, and one would assume - win?

If you're going to make a point of showing the manager he's wrong, downing tools doesn't prove anything. Demonstrating why he's wrong and winning at least stands a chance of being persuasive!

Fanchester, are you sure this isn't exactly what they did on Sunday because I'm not. Some posters are arguing that the players aren't trying because they have no confidence in Pellegrini. I can't question their commitment or their passion because all the shirts are as sweat stained as ever at the end but they don't seem to know what they're supposed to be doing. On Sunday Milner didn't know if he should stay with Carrick or go on the left. Silva wasn't clear if he was playing up front with Sergio or playing in midfield. Navas didn't know whether to stay high to keep Blind back or drop back. The whole team seemed to drift over to the right leaving our left invitingly open. Whe I see Silva and Aguero waving their arms at each other, clearly asking what the other thinks he's doing and looking at each other with blank incomprehension I think things must be alarmingly wrong. It takes me back to the furious row Vinnie and Ferna are supposed to have had not long ago. Ya Ya's body language suggested that he and Ferna are fed up of trying to boss central midfield agains four opponents.. Pellers mey prefer 424, tell us all its flexible and tell us not to talk phone numbers but when Sergio and David don't get what he's talking about he needs to explain it a lot better. We had eleven players playing on their own for 75 minutes on Sunday.

 

[OB1]

If players are protesting against the manager....

Why don't they ignore his instructions and just go out and play as they seem fit, and one would assume - win?

If you're going to make a point of showing the manager he's wrong, downing tools doesn't prove anything. Demonstrating why he's wrong and winning at least stands a chance of being persuasive!

We have not got some bunch of young kids out there. These are seasoned professionals, many with two recent title wins under their belts, they should be able to galvanize themselves into performing and have enough nouse to adjust how they are playing if they really do not believe in how the manager has set them up. This should be especially true when they are playing teams that are patently less talented than themselves.

The manager has been too intransigent in his approach and the criticism in the post just above this one of his failure to do something about central midfield and Yaya's role is probably the most damning indictment of his failings. I think that just that one change could have made a major difference to the season.

 

[Damocles]

I think the idea that grown men need to be bollocked to perform is ludicrous and a reflection of the fans frustration rather than their real opinions on modern management techniques

Do you people think that the best way of managing you at work is by shouting in your face?

Or would you just want to lamp the guy?

 

[OB1]

If players are protesting against the manager....

Why don't they ignore his instructions and just go out and play as they seem fit, and one would assume - win?

If you're going to make a point of showing the manager he's wrong, downing tools doesn't prove anything. Demonstrating why he's wrong and winning at least stands a chance of being persuasive!

Fanchester, are you sure this isn't exactly what they did on Sunday because I'm not. Some posters are arguing that the players aren't trying because they have no confidence in Pellegrini. I can't question their commitment or their passion because all the shirts are as sweat stained as ever at the end but they don't seem to know what they're supposed to be doing. On Sunday Milner didn't know if he should stay with Carrick or go on the left. Silva wasn't clear if he was playing up front with Sergio or playing in midfield. Navas didn't know whether to stay high to keep Blind back or drop back. The whole team seemed to drift over to the right leaving our left invitingly open. Whe I see Silva and Aguero waving their arms at each other, clearly asking what the other thinks he's doing and looking at each other with blank incomprehension I think things must be alarmingly wrong. It takes me back to the furious row Vinnie and Ferna are supposed to have had not long ago. Ya Ya's body language suggested that he and Ferna are fed up of trying to boss central midfield agains four opponents.. Pellers mey prefer 424, tell us all its flexible and tell us not to talk phone numbers but when Sergio and David don't get what he's talking about he needs to explain it a lot better. We had eleven players playing on their own for 75 minutes on Sunday.

I can't argue with how it looked but I have no idea if the players ignored instruction of did not understand how they were set up; however, I still find it hard to believe that Pellegrini had not explained it clearly to them.

Whatever, it has all got quite messy.

 

[FanchesterCity]

If players are protesting against the manager....

Why don't they ignore his instructions and just go out and play as they seem fit, and one would assume - win?

If you're going to make a point of showing the manager he's wrong, downing tools doesn't prove anything. Demonstrating why he's wrong and winning at least stands a chance of being persuasive!

Fanchester, are you sure this isn't exactly what they did on Sunday because I'm not. Some posters are arguing that the players aren't trying because they have no confidence in Pellegrini. I can't question their commitment or their passion because all the shirts are as sweat stained as ever at the end but they don't seem to know what they're supposed to be doing. On Sunday Milner didn't know if he should stay with Carrick or go on the left. Silva wasn't clear if he was playing up front with Sergio or playing in midfield. Navas didn't know whether to stay high to keep Blind back or drop back. The whole team seemed to drift over to the right leaving our left invitingly open. Whe I see Silva and Aguero waving their arms at each other, clearly asking what the other thinks he's doing and looking at each other with blank incomprehension I think things must be alarmingly wrong. It takes me back to the furious row Vinnie and Ferna are supposed to have had not long ago. Ya Ya's body language suggested that he and Ferna are fed up of trying to boss central midfield agains four opponents.. Pellers mey prefer 424, tell us all its flexible and tell us not to talk phone numbers but when Sergio and David don't get what he's talking about he needs to explain it a lot better. We had eleven players playing on their own for 75 minutes on Sunday.

I'm sure they didn't do that. I'm sure that at 1-1 the mentality changed and we started to fear yet another disaster. By 2-1 we were in damage limitation mode, and by 3-1 a route looked on the cards.
Aguero's second had 'consolation' written all over it and yet, as unlikely is it was, it could have been 'comeback'.

I don't want to say the fight isn't in us, because for the first 20 minutes you could see it exists... but it dissipates too quickly.
Even clueless players not knowing the plan can run around like headless chickens with fury/enthusiasm/hopeless optimism. But when you're staring at your boots and walking back to the half way line after a goal that offers a glimmer of hope, it only means one thing. The fight has fled!

 

[Mr HJ]

I think the idea that grown men need to be bollocked to perform is ludicrous and a reflection of the fans frustration rather than their real opinions on modern management techniques

Do you people think that the best way of managing you at work is by shouting in your face?

Or would you just want to lamp the guy?

Damocles I think the point is that all managers need to have a distance between them and the players. From my own experiences as a kid playing in the old 4th division I agree shouting into faces doesn't work, in fact it was one of the reasons I quit, the other being I was pretty shit. That said, there has to be a level of fear, fear that if you don't perform you will loose your place (Never happens with Yaya for example), fear that you are always playing for your future. Fans can always understand loss of form if the work rate is there Sergio compared to Dzeko for example. Ultimately I would not wish us to ever return to old draconian methods, but believe me the most successful managers are the ones that always back players in public but behind the scenes rule the roost. Manuel has to be moved on because it seems from the outside he has lost a bit of respect from the staff and has also been stubborn in not changing his tactics. And, don't get me started on rotation of our defence and midfield companion to Mr Toure.

 

[FanchesterCity]

I think the idea that grown men need to be bollocked to perform is ludicrous and a reflection of the fans frustration rather than their real opinions on modern management techniques

Do you people think that the best way of managing you at work is by shouting in your face?

Or would you just want to lamp the guy?

I have a fully grown son. He needs bollocking. They make immature mistakes. Sometimes I'll sit down calmly with him and explain my rationale, sometimes he get the hairdryer.

If he had a footballer's life, and 200K a week, I'd expect he'd need even more keeping in line.
We're talking about grown up men upset about a birthday cake....
We're talking about grown up men who take to twitter to express their disgust about being left out of a national team...
We're talking about grown up men who leave their club in the lurch for half a season because they've fallen out with a manager...

They probably aren't getting enough bollockings!!!

Shouting at players isn't always going to be the answer. And of course, some need an arm around the shoulder etc, but aggressive man management isn't always wrong either. The British Army aren't going to be sitting down to discuss your emotional concerns about having to walk 30 miles when you're tired. Short, sharp shock CAN work and does (when used appropriately)
Uncontrolled aggression is just wrong, but a controlled bollocking is a perfectly legitimate part of any manager's arsenal I'd say.

Next thing we'll hear is that it's inappropriate to put Sammy Nasri over my knee and spank him. The world's gone mad

 

[coleridge]

 

[dancity19]

I think the idea that grown men need to be bollocked to perform is ludicrous and a reflection of the fans frustration rather than their real opinions on modern management techniques

Do you people think that the best way of managing you at work is by shouting in your face?

Or would you just want to lamp the guy?

I agree with the bollocking statement. Different players respond differently to forms of man management - that's kind of the point.

I think, perhaps what people are more referring to, is his ability to motivate. We don't know, we aren't in the dressing room, but I think many question his ability to motivate and 'gee the players up'. SHOULD they need motivating - probably not. DO they need motivating - clearly, yes.

I think that is what irks people - a seeming lack of passion - he doesn't really look like he's that bothered. I'm sure he is, it just doesn't look like that. Do I want a manager who runs into the crowd when we score - no, probably not. Do I want a manager with more passion - yes. I guess the issue is, that this lack of passion infiltrates down to the players - it certainly looks that way.